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WH40K Hero


knasser2

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9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Didn’t think you were snarking.  Asked about edition because damage negation is only available in 6th. I have used DN but in very limited dice. Perhaps no more than 2 Dice. And I guess I used it wrong, but I didn’t worry about advantages. 0ne DN takes care of one die. Just like in fantasy I don’t worry and recalculate STR min for adavantage. Whether a weapon is straight killing or AP, + 5 STR over STR Min adds 1DC of Killing. It just an idea. Also for Lasguns, have you considered red. pen. for Lasguns? That might work for good damage against unarmored but poor against armored.

 

8 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Knasser2 I often don’t recommend just buying a supplement out of hand. In this case though, for $1, in the Hero store is a PDF for Dark Champions where Steve Long updates his templates from 5th to 6th. Among the templates that you might find useful are military templates. Off the top of my head there are Basic military, Delta Force and Rangers and night even be SEALs. For a $1, you can’t go wrong.

 

Thanks. I've grabbed it and found the military templates. Yes, this might be helpful.

 

Lasguns aren't really weak penetration. They're more the settings basic firearm. Everything else gets compared to them. The next step up are bolters which only elites tend to have. I'm putting Reduced Penetration on Needle weapons, which are poison weapons. They're extremely lethal but get blocked by a winter coat.

 

What's going to be really fun is next up I need to do melee weapons. WH40K has some of the craziest melee weapons ever (including one that injects and expanding pellet of monofilament wire into your opponent's body).

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4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I was just poking around the ‘net and know one seems to know for sure how strong a Space Marine is. Just that he’s super humanly strong. So I’ll guess at 30 STR

 

Tabletop has a simple 1-10 scale for strength with regular humans being on 3 and Space Marines on 4. It's not very helpful and the RPG line which was percentile based, tried to follow it. And then had to put in some very ugly hacks called "Unnatural Strength" and "Unnatural Toughness" to say that they got more strength bonuses than their strength score. All in all, it's not very helpful and I'm sticking to the fluff.

 

The fluff varies (as somewhat do the Space Marines themselves) too, though. You have the Primarchs who are the founders and were only 20 18 of them. Regular Space Marines... I'm looking at the strength chart in 6E1 and grizzly bear is at 20. They should be able to wrestle a grizzly. That's nicely cinematic and certainly fits. They should probably be able to carry a horse over their shoulders (strength 23) and I'd say they could lift up the end of a sportscar and turn it over, but picking it up is pushing it. There's also the issue of their power armour which in some fluff enhances strength and in others is kind of glossed over.

 

I did find a 24 page debate on how strong a Space Marine is (including the opinion "as strong as five small ponies") so I'm just going to settle on 23 being the standard. I'll be okay if the occasional Space Marine is lower or higher.

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14 hours ago, knasser2 said:

Anyone got any thoughts on the Imperial Guardsman I posted earlier. If not familiar with the setting, Imperial Guard are your regular army so just think standard soldier. He seemed to only cost 66 CP to get him to what seemed right so either I'm missing obvious things he needs or I need to scale back the points values in the book (he's supposed to be Competent Normal, 100CP) to account for the fact that this will be very Gear based.

 

Its been a looooong time since I played 40k, but one principle that I always liked was the points-balance approach that is similar to HERO. In other words, you can gauge a squad based on the total number of points it has just like you can gauge a super team against a villain team. The weapons were a big part of balancing squads. For example, you could have a single squad of highly equipped space marines against an endless horde of space orcs with crappy weapons, but the points still balance out. 

 

My my point in bringing this up is that you'll probably want to include the weapons and equipment in the character builds so that there is still some balance at the squad level. They can all take the Focus Disadvantage, Real Weapon Disadvantage, etc. to make them more affordable, but it'll be easier to maintain a balance between opposing squad combat.  

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Just now, Brian Stanfield said:

 

Its been a looooong time since I played 40k, but one principle that I always liked was the points-balance approach that is similar to HERO. In other words, you can gauge a squad based on the total number of points has just like you can gauge a super team against a villain team. 

 

My my point in bringing this up is that you'll probably want to include the weapons and equipment in the character builds so that there is still some balance at the squad level. They can all take the Focus Disadvantage, Real Weapon Disadvantage, etc. to make them more affordable, but it'll be easier to maintain a balance between opposing squad combat.  

 

I don't think factoring in gear to the character builds will work. It would if I were trying to build a tactical war game of set units like the actual WH40K game, but for a role-playing game where gear will frequently be looted, requisitioned or assigned by mission superiors, it's not going to make sense.

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4 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Got it.  I misunderstood your goal. Still, this sounds like a lot of fun, and I'd like to see what you finally come up with. You should post it when you get it figured out, and maybe write up a documents for the downloads section. 

 

I fully intend to share it when done. I'll hopefully write it up as a proper little document with sample opponents, equipment and abilities.

 

A setting that has a character named "Orkimedes" who is a genius ork, or where the Imperium of Man has actually codified in their strategic documents how many lives one day's loss of production is worth for a particular Hive World city (it's one million lives per day, if you're wondering), deserves a good rule system!

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39 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

The Space Marines should have a bunch of Life Supports as their extra organs. Also if using the bleeding rules, they should have doesn’t bleed.

 

Thanks. I was looking for a way to do the not bleeding out thing, and lo! and behold! it actually exists.

 

I've already added Life Support and Longevity. I'll post an updated one in a bit. I'm currently working on vehicles as I want to make sure the weapons vs. vehicles matches up fluff wise next. Once that's done I'm going to begin doing proper write-ups.

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Outline of a few of the iconic WH40K vehicles just so I can complete the final vertex of my triangle of balance along with armour and weapons. Whilst it might make vehicles seem tougher than in table top, I'm keeping in mind that a turn in table top represents multiple shots back and forth. (At least I figure it must unless a large combat engagement lasts 18 seconds).

 

On to proper draft weapons, characters and powers, now.

wh40k_vehicles.png

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6 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Oh and speaking of vehicles. A SM Dreadnought should have several levels of DN!

 

That's right - I was going to use DN as suggested. I'll revise my vehicles to use that.

 

4 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Knasser2 back in the day we become disenchanted with w40k because the marines were so overpowered. My friend liked to play Greenskins so I created a Chapter of Marines that were basically scout Marine stats. It made for a closer game.

 

Well currently I'm building this as an analogue for the FFG game lines. So it's humans only. If an Ork shows up, it's an enemy. That said, orks are pretty terrifying regardless. I recall a line from the legend of Ghazghkull Thraka where when subduing an exceptionally ferocious warboss it's accounted that he had to cut off the warboss's head twice before he finally surrendered. I see no reason why orks can't be pretty horrifying. I mean there's not many species where if you hold a severed limb in place long enough it will reattach itself.

 

(For anyone not familiar with the setting, orks are essentially fungi. They grow from spores).

 

I don't intend to try and balance orks and Space Marines, in short. It would be pretty easy to create an ork character that was if you wished, though.

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9 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Oh and Knasser2, the Black Carapace that SM grows would justify that SM armor is personal not universal.

 

The carapace seems to have been dropped in later editions. Their power armour is going under equipment and is not being paid for with CP. Same as everyone else's equipment.

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All I know is that the Space Marines did not feel at all overpowered for me when playing Space Hulk.

 

Move, Overwatch...  what do you mean I don't get to shoot the genestealer before it tears me in half?

 

Granted, I did not know the rules very well, but my squad of 5 Terminators barely killed 5 genestealers before being torn apart.

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1 hour ago, Funk Thompson said:

All I know is that the Space Marines did not feel at all overpowered for me when playing Space Hulk.

 

Move, Overwatch...  what do you mean I don't get to shoot the genestealer before it tears me in half?

 

Granted, I did not know the rules very well, but my squad of 5 Terminators barely killed 5 genestealers before being torn apart.

 

Ah, that blip mechanic where you'd never know how many genestealers the blip represented so you'd take a chance, open a door and three of the buggers would leap out and shred you. I looked up their stats earlier for this. The current tabletop has them moving 1.5x as fast as humans but the FFG RPG version had, I shit-you-not, 4x the speed of a regular human. Closest thing to a teleport a living creature can get!

 

I don't know what I'll do for them in this yet, but they'll definitely be calibrated as Space Marine level opponents. For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, GW took the creatures from Alien, gave them two extra arms and a life cycle that was twice as terrifying.

th2.png

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I tidied up the vehicles a little and I also took the time to create a preliminary layout template for them. There will be similar for creatures, characters and weapons / armour. Here's an early-stage preview.

 

Now onto building all this stuff properly with CP and fleshing out the details.

wh40k_vehicles.png

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5 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Knasser2 back in the day we become disenchanted with w40k because the marines were so overpowered.

 

We became disenchanted with the game because game balance was a joke* and the minis cost billions.  The background is damn cool though.

 

Definitely rely on the fluff and not the ruleset to determine the Hero stats.  You'll probably wind up with better mechanics than the original.

 

 

 

* I'll see your Space Marines and raise you some Terminators, Noise Marines, and Harlequins.

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1 minute ago, Old Man said:

 

We became disenchanted with the game because game balance was a joke* and the minis cost billions.  The background is damn cool though.

 

Definitely rely on the fluff and not the ruleset to determine the Hero stats.  You'll probably wind up with better mechanics than the original.

 

 

 

* I'll see your Space Marines and raise you some Terminators, Noise Marines, and Harlequins.

 

Oh, I assumed Ninja was talking about one of the role-playing games like Deathwatch. If you're talking about the tabletop wargame, then yes - balance is all over the place and always has been. GW mess up the balance every edition and codex and it's widely presumed to be an attempt to keep people buying new armies as many younger players like to have the strongest faction. Though I've heard that 8th edition is actually shaping up to be a huge improvement in terms of balance.

 

Also... Noise Marines. If ever anyone thought WH40K wasn't gonzo enough...

th6.png

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