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Retro Edition KS announced


GestaltBennie
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It does sound intriguing. My initial takeaway is that characters should be simplier to create than now in some ways. I’m guessing reduced number of skills but each skill covers more area. Figured characteristics are back and  large and small characters will be built on powers again. (Which has its own pros and cons).

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I wish them luck. So far, all I can see from this project to the nostalgia factor (I myself only started Champions from the BBB).

 

Great question number 1: Can a character built in Champions Now be easily converted to Champions Complete?

 

Great question number 2: Can a character built in Champions Complete be downgraded to Champions Now easily?

 

Great question number 3: Why would I run a game in Champions Now? What is the advantages of Champions Now over CC? Can I build complicated builds like Rouge easier in Champions Now over Champions Complete?

 

I, for one, love the martial arts system from 4th edition on. How are they going to use that and the old "buy your STR again and your a martial artist" of Champions 1? I would rather use the current version of martial arts skill than Champions 1 version(or was that Champions 2?).

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FYI: The big white "K" in the upper left corner of the video is a link to the Kickstarter page. It took me a few minutes of clicking around to figure it out. Here's a plain old link to it:

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/herogames/champions-now

 

I like the idea, will download the sample and check it out.

 

I like the retro art for the video thumbnail, but one minor criticism: The male character on the far right has no lower right leg. At least some of his lower leg and foot should be visible behind the lady's feet. The guy with the star on his chest on the left side seems to have the same issue with his lower left leg. (ETA: It seems like they may have been erased when putting the characters over the lettering. It looks like they both have some faint leg outlines remaining.)

 

Best of luck!

 

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13 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I’m also wondering if powers come with freebies as they used too. Example (From Champions 3rd) Growth has extra running. Each extra limb gives you +1 OCV and Flash is AOE, non selective.

 

In the playtest doc, Extra Limb specifies +1 OCV, and Acrobatics Skill specifies extra DCV if you're moving.  I think Flash might be single target; it doesn't say AOE.  The Growth table isn't in the doc yet; I would imagine it probably defaults to 3rd edition's version unless otherwise specified.

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I started playing Champions back in the early 80s with 2nd/3rd edition, and as great as all that was, I’m just not nostalgic for that generation of its design. If I was ever to contemplate something like Champions Now for myself, I would simply take 4e and add in a few choice nuggets from 5e. And I’d stop right there. No extra design effort needed (for me).

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7 hours ago, steriaca said:

I wish them luck. So far, all I can see from this project to the nostalgia factor (I myself only started Champions from the BBB).

 

Great question number 1: Can a character built in Champions Now be easily converted to Champions Complete?

 

Great question number 2: Can a character built in Champions Complete be downgraded to Champions Now easily?

 

Great question number 3: Why would I run a game in Champions Now? What is the advantages of Champions Now over CC? Can I build complicated builds like Rouge easier in Champions Now over Champions Complete?

 

I, for one, love the martial arts system from 4th edition on. How are they going to use that and the old "buy your STR again and your a martial artist" of Champions 1? I would rather use the current version of martial arts skill than Champions 1 version(or was that Champions 2?).

#1 Considering that Champions Now has less options, it should be fairly easy I think.

 

#2 Depending how complex the CC character is built, depends on how easy it would be to convert.

 

#3 I think the whole point of Champions Now is appealing to Nostalgia and perhaps playing a game in its simpler form.

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9 hours ago, steriaca said:

Great question number 3: Why would I run a game in Champions Now? What is the advantages of Champions Now over CC? Can I build complicated builds like Rouge easier in Champions Now over Champions Complete?

 

The main thing with Champions Now is what it puts up front. Character play and special effects are right at the centre of things.

 

Yes, obviously, this can be done with other editions, but it isn't emphasized in the same way.

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So, I read the playtest document over and then mulled it over. It seems like the main thrusts of the product are:

 

1. Using simpler rules that are closer to the 3rd and prior editions in scope.

2. Codifying a particular play style and build style into the presentation (no necessarily the rules/mechanics).

 

Overall impression: I'd buy a polished version of this. (Too broke to back KS, sorry to say.) I like the character building approach/philosophy used here, and this looks like the Hero Lite type of product that occasionally gets suggested on the forums (albeit not for the current edition).  I shall fiddle with it and make some characters! I don't know if I'll be able to playtest it, but maybe we can have a thread here for discussing Champions Now builds or something?

 

Questions at first blush:

 

1. Will there be a Hero Designer template/variant for this product if it comes out? Maybe as a stretch goal? (I didn't see that on the KS page, but may have overlooked it.)*

2. In the early part of the document, it's suggested to leave REC, END and STUN at their base figured values and not to waste points on them. Which suggests that you could buy them up if you wanted to. However, on the costs summary section for Characteristics, no values are listed. (Master Lists, page 40.)  So, by RAW, can you or can't you buy up those three stats?

 

Very much looking forward to seeing how this project progresses. I think it's a very cool idea.

 

 

*I'd buy a new/updated HD license for this product. Hint-hint.

 

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19 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

2. In the early part of the document, it's suggested to leave REC, END and STUN at their base figured values and not to waste points on them. Which suggests that you could buy them up if you wanted to. However, on the costs summary section for Characteristics, no values are listed. (Master Lists, page 40.)  So, by RAW, can you or can't you buy up those three stats?

 

Interesting, isn't it?

 

I'd be inclined to allow them to be bought up according to the old rules.

 

However, this is an early playtest document. For the moment, I'd say that "it's not there, so don't do it".

 

I've been doing a bit of maths about END use, and I think that it is possible to build characters that would work with only the END calculated from CON. In practice, though, they would mainly be constrained to 8 or 9 dice attacks. Anything more would be "going all out"/"not holding back" and couldn't be sustained for long.

 

From Ron's earlier writings, I think this is a feature, not a bug.

 

Characters trying to run Force Fields as well would have problems though, even if they are running them at very low levels.

 

There's also not currently any ability to increase damage from Martial Arts except through buying powers, which costs END. Again, that might be a feature rather than a bug.

 

The biggest problem is that buying up lots of CON seems like a Really Good Idea.

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1 hour ago, dmjalund said:

can't they buy reduced END on the Forcefield - i Recall Reduced END being available in Classic Champions

 

You can buy No Endurance Cost for +2, with the note "There is no intermediate version for this advantage." So, it seems that they want Endurance to be a factor in this edition.

 

Here's a link to the PDF of the playtest document (also linked on the KS page):

 

http://adeptplay.com/sites/default/files/Champions Now playtest.pdf

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One thing I noticed in making a weapon toting vigilante is no Charges Limitation. I get that they want Endurance to be a factor, but Charges are still limiting if they cost END. This can obviously be handled with a custom Limited Power Limitation, but I hope they add some official guidelines. IMO, they could either go with the normal costs for Charges or with the cost of a Charge + Costs END limitation baked in. Or something in between.

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I remember looking at past editions of characters and they had...

 

1 ) "Complications" which were reduced the more of them in that category you had. (Called Limitations in past editions, hench the quotes.) They got full points for the first Complication of that category, and next Complication of that category was reduced by 1/4 the second, 1/2 the third, 3/4 the fourth, ECT... I wonder if this will be implemented in the final product.

 

2) Reduced END was half endurance cost for each +1/4, and anything rounding to 0 is the equivalent of 0 END. Which do you think you like more, this or the now more common half end for +1/4, 0 end for +1/2 structure we have now?

 

3) Endurance Reserve was once a power limitation. Do you think it is better as a power or a limitation on a power?

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9 hours ago, steriaca said:

I remember looking at past editions of characters and they had...

 

1 ) "Complications" which were reduced the more of them in that category you had. (Called Limitations in past editions, hench the quotes.)

 

I seem to recall they were called Disadvantages actually.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

We can ask the palindromedary

 

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