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43 minutes ago, Chris Goodwin said:

I played a ninja (it was the 80's, don't judge) with Karate from DI, so I asked the GM, who chuckled at my kewl-ninja-wanna-be-ness but said yes, I can do that.

 

As for this... uhm... who DIDN'T playa ninja in the '80s?

 

I mean... who doesn't play ninja's now? Ninja's are freakin' awesome.


Seriously, one of the characters in my very deadly serious, modern campaign of guns and martial arts and X-files weirdness plays a ninja. A very traditional ninja, with very traditional ninja skills, and a very traditional silenced 9mm pistol.

 

 

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Is there a transcript?    The over-reliance on PODcasts and videos is the primary reason my gaming related spending has plummeted to a fraction of what it was.  I have very little free time

The first wave of role-playing design was its own Renaissance, marked by greatness of all kinds. If you were playing then, you'll remember. And if you weren't, you'd be amazed at what that wave held.

Although I'm a backer, this is sort of what bothers me. The powers that be refuse to re-print the 6e core books because Champions Complete is the new standard set of rules, but then turn around and ba

19 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

Perhaps it was that I always wanted my Champs campaign to actually do away with most comic book tropes (or at least question them) and move more into the "people with powers in a chaotic, dangerous world" type of campaign. On the surface, you had costumes and code names, but wrestling with issues of the law and vigilantism, killing or not, how to use your power to change society, not just beat up bad guys... what were the ramifications for normal in a world of supers, etc.  Those things were essential to the game, and I don't think could have been done with Champions as it was originally envisioned, that enforced tropes like secret id's, DNPCs, etc.

 

These are the sorts of things Ron Edwards got out of first-gen Champions!  And in fact is what he's optimizing Champions Now for.  

 

(Boldface mine.) 

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7 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

As for this... uhm... who DIDN'T playa ninja in the '80s?

 

I mean... who doesn't play ninja's now? Ninja's are freakin' awesome.


Seriously, one of the characters in my very deadly serious, modern campaign of guns and martial arts and X-files weirdness plays a ninja. A very traditional ninja, with very traditional ninja skills, and a very traditional silenced 9mm pistol.

 

 

?  And maybe points up assumption clash a bit.  ?   The campaign was intended to be fairly historical Japan (with the addition of magic, of course); the GM very patiently explained to me about the historicity (or lack thereof) of ninja, and the problems my character would be facing in the campaign (namely, being a hired killer of the eta social class), but he let me go for it.  I played that character for the first arc of the campaign.  (Sometimes dice just work out, to the point that in the final session of that arc I took out a lieutenant-type with a Karate punch, critical hit, to the head, and shortly thereafter I died holding a position.  I felt it was a very worthy death.)

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3 minutes ago, Chris Goodwin said:

 

These are the sorts of things Ron Edwards got out of first-gen Champions!  And in fact is what he's optimizing Champions Now for.  

 

(Boldface mine.) 

 

I read one blog post by Ron about how he always loved the Mind Games supplement, because it didn't proscribe good vs. bad, etc., but gave you a set of interesting characters to role play against that was driven by "play" rather than set expected outcomes.


He seemed to imply that other 4th Edition supplements DID proscribe these things... which I never found. The Zodiac supplement, the Olympians supplement, Sanctuary, etc. Later, all the Dark Champs/Hudson City stuff, etc. There were so many great characters and settings that could be interpreted in so many ways, and didn't enforce stereotypical play. I never felt 4th Edition every fell into the... taken to the extreme... White Wolf trap, or the era of D&D supplements that had to be played in order, and one adventure had to follow another, etc.

 

I'm just not sure what was found by you and Ron in 4th that made it not work... as all the things I was trying to do with Champs finally came to fruition with 4th Ed.

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Just now, Chris Goodwin said:

 

Then what are you worried about?

 

Confusion in the market. Misinformation travels faster than fact a thousand times.  Some may think this is the new Champions, that 6e is being dropped. . Division in the player base fragmenting sales; there's already those refusing to advance to new product nightstick to older stuff out of nostalgia, fragmenting the potential ability to sell new product. I can understand a pure nostalgia product. But if you really want to attract new players, pushing a newer, nicer, newbie friendly version of Champions Complete is the way to go, instead of this diversion back to these rules which are just old and outdated, ( not intrinsically better (or really that much simpler) at reflecting the superhero genre.

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I keep thinking that whatever Ron Edwards wants to do with Champions Now, why couldn’t he have done with CC? Sure figureds is out but really if the game is less about the mechanic and more on playing then going back to 3e is a bogus argument.  Now Jason Walters said that Champions Now can be easier to learn for younger kids. Great! Again why couldn’t that have been done (as supplement) for CC? We preach how Hero System can be changed to have the game YOU want. Well apparently it can’t.

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1 minute ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I keep thinking that whatever Ron Edwards wants to do with Champions Now, why couldn’t he have done with CC? Sure figureds is out but really if the game is less about the mechanic and more on playing then going back to 3e is a bogus argument.  Now Jason Walters said that Champions Now can be easier to learn for younger kids. Great! Again why couldn’t that have been done (as supplement) for CC? We preach how Hero System can be changed to have the game YOU want. Well apparently it can’t.

Exactly. Thanks for saying it better than I did.

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When the funding announcement was emailed they admitted the Champions 3E, Champions II, and Champions III pdfs they're including are scans. I'm sure many of us have seen bootleg scans of books, and their quality usually leaves a lot to be desired: misaligned pages, fuzzy or out of focus images, and of course massive size. I am quite disappointed.

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44 minutes ago, randian said:

When the funding announcement was emailed they admitted the Champions 3E, Champions II, and Champions III pdfs they're including are scans. I'm sure many of us have seen bootleg scans of books, and their quality usually leaves a lot to be desired: misaligned pages, fuzzy or out of focus images, and of course massive size. I am quite disappointed.

 

Well... they are going on 35 year old books... it's not like anyone has Adobe files for them sitting around.

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Spence getting to what you said, about product in stores. That is a ymmv thing in some regards. Many years ago when fifth was new edition, I went to my FLGS and he had just about every fifth ed book and was surprised because I was the only one to have bought one. Fifth ed rev to be exact. This was in Erie, PA. Now I live in Harrisburg, PA and the only reason that I have heard of Gumshoe is because of this thread. I haven’t seen it in FLGS. And speaking of FLGS in this area, it’s pretty much a dessert.

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