steriaca Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Yeah, that is a lot of why I wouldn't do it (plus it doesn't really feel "natural" to me) I understand. I wouldn't remove KA myself if I had a game (keep all my options open). Would keep "Lethal" myself as a NND/AVLD option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. R Posted June 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Well thank you to all the answers. I guess what it comes down to is as a GM I need to keep my view in mind and keep a lid on KA. Part and parcel of being a Hero GM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 It is worth mentioning that although they still exist, Killing Attacks are relatively uncommon in your typical Champions campaign. Most superheroic characters don't have a KA at all, or only have one for the sake of fighting robots and destroying objects. Most of their enemies only have strong enough KAs to threaten Normals and compete with mundane equipment (~6 DCs Killing)... so heroes generally only need enough rPD to resist knives and small arms fire (about 6 rPD), and their enemies generally end up with 8-12 rPD just in case one of the heroes didn't get the memo regarding proper use of the KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 One of the advantages of the Hero system is the flexibility and variety. A lot of games simulate this with special rules or powers given to individual items, but Hero has it codified and part of the system. In other words, D&D might have a vorpal effect or an arrow that ignores damage resistance, but Hero has powers that tell exactly how and why that works, and you can buy it with a spell or character ability rather than handwaving it. Killing damage is one of those variants in the rules; it allows certain classes of weapons to bypass a certain kind of defenses, and the system allows for distinction between say a club and a knife. Further variants like armor piercing, increased stun multiple, and so on allow greater distinction between weapons. That way instead of weapons just being x damage, x weight they are unique and each one has its own special characteristics which can be taken advantage of or not as useful in a given situation. Kind of like real life weapons. This adds a layer of complexity to the game, but a fairly minor one -- and as I noted above, the complexity is back doored into other "more simple" games through an endless and largely arbitrary series of exceptions. Cantriped 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 3:30 PM, Mr. R said: So after reading M&M products and some from Palladium and even Old School V&V, I noticed that in those games there are NO killing Attacks. A sword is just a str 2 add to your damage. A pistol is a dam 5 ranged. Or what ever mechanic you are using at the time. Now in a Fantasy Hero games, a KA is part and parcel. But in a comic, people get hit with swords or shrapnel and come out little the worse for wear. So has anyone done this? NO KA's. A 2d6 HKA Sword is now 6D6 HA. If you have not done this, but are thinking about it, what are your thoughts? Finally any long term ramifications? Thank you! We had Supers games all the time without killing attacks. Champs was always a "build to a concept" game for me and my original gaming group. Just because a mechanic exists, doesn't mean it has to be used willy nilly. KA is used to apply damage in a certain way. Norm Damage is the other way. If you are running a Champs game, then just say "no Killing Attacks". There done. Champs version 1st through 6th will play just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Yeah, the Image age of comics and Wolverine aside, killing attacks should be rare in most superheroic campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Yeah, the Image age of comics and Wolverine aside, killing attacks should be rare in most superheroic campaigns. Ya forgot Da Punisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Punisher, like Wolfy and Timber Wolf, were at their most interesting when they were That Guy rather than Yet Another Bloodthirsty Killer. When half of every team is packing huge guns and swords, it sort of loses its charm and unique nature. LoneWolf, Cantriped, Amorkca and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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