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Deadman

Guns and Ammo

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@RDU Neil

 

Our games use something pretty much exactly like you're chit system. Our system uses beads of different colors with each bead being with a certain amount of points and then each item on the "Luck Chart" requires a certain amount of points.  You can also combine lower ranked beads  if you need one of the higher ranked beads.  We don't use is the double of the cost after the 3rd level of luck.  Which we probably should do although, with the exception of a few PC/NPCs, it's never really been an issue. Most characters just have the 1 "draw", as they don't have any extra luck, while other may have 1 to 2 extra draws.  For a total of 3 luck beads to use during the adventure.  

 

We developed ours because the Luck system was too ambiguous and hard to adjudicate where as something hard and fast like the chi system had concrete things you could do with the luck.

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:29 PM, Deadman said:

Do all of the players draw from the bag so that only one can get the Gold/Red Chit or is the bag made whole for each player/NPC?

 

I don't think I answered this question. Everyone draws from the same bag, so only one Gold/Red for that session.

 

I am thinking about adding the rules to the Red Chit, "Once drawn, this chit will stay with the character until used. It will take the slot of drawn chits in later sessions, until used."   I want to do this, because TWICE now they have drawn the Red Chit and been "too afraid" to use it. My games are SO NOT PUNISHING to players. I say Yes to everything. The whole point is to allow them more freedom and influence on the game... but player paranoia of giving the GM the Red Chit... sigh... risk avoidance is such a strong motivator in people.  :P

 

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Since this is the Guns and Ammo thread, I hope nobody minds if I interject a question--

 

Just what is the difference between .38 and .380 caliber?  The way I learned it in school, thirty-eight hundredths and three-hundred-eighty thousandths were one and the same number.  So what differentiates the two as ammunition?

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2 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

Since this is the Guns and Ammo thread, I hope nobody minds if I interject a question--

 

Just what is the difference between .38 and .380 caliber?  The way I learned it in school, thirty-eight hundredths and three-hundred-eighty thousandths were one and the same number.  So what differentiates the two as ammunition?

 

My understanding, and I'm no expert... while .380 and .38 are nominally the same diameter (for some reason, .38 is.001 wider... .380 is 9mm, .38 is 9.1mm) the design of the bullet and its length is the most notable difference. The .380 (also called 9mm short) is 17mm in length. The .38 Special is 23mm (I think.)

 

The case and thus full cartridge for the .38 is longer, and designed for revolvers, where the .380 is designed for blow back automatics.

 

I'm sure there are other differences, or I didn't get some details right.

 

Pictures help...

 

220px-380_ACP_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

1024px-38_Special_-_FMJ_-_SB_-_2.jpg

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Neil,

He first asked what the difference is between .38 and .380 caliber. To answer that properly, bullet length and shape are completely irrelevant to a correct technical response, since caliber is, by definition, the internal diameter of the gun barrel (aka the diameter of the projectile shot by the gun). Technically, this means that the difference between .38 and .380 caliber is only notation (and nothing more, since there's no other difference because they represent the same diameter).

 

He then asked what differentiates the two as ammunition -- which I take to mean "What is the difference between .38 special and .380 ACP cartridges?"  That, sir, is where I believe your answers come in.

 

I figured I'd pipe up and clarify … since the first question appeared to have gone unaddressed.

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Some confusion creeps in here because the word "caliber" has three distinct uses in the field of firearms technology.

 

One definition is only encountered when talking about big guns, like artillery or naval guns: the length of the gun tube can be expressed in terms of multiples of its bore diameter. For instance, a five-inch twenty-caliber gun has a bore diameter of five inches and a barrel length of 100 inches. This sense is never used in discussing small arms, so we can segue into the next definition.

 

The second sense of the word "caliber" is, as Surrealeone points out, simply bore diameter. In the US it is customary to measure this at the "lands" of the rifling (the smaller diameter) while elsewhere it is common to measure it at the "grooves" (the larger diameter). Broadly speaking, a firearm with a larger bore diameter is more powerful than one with a smaller bore, but bore diameter does NOT tell the whole story; the weight of the bullet and the amount of powder in the case are equally important, if not more so.

 

The third sense is not actually correct, but still commonly encountered, especially in informal conversation: the world "caliber" is used to refer to a particular cartridge specification. For instance, when discussing semi-automatic pistols, someone might refer to "45 caliber". In context, this will be understood not to simply mean that the gun has a .45 inch bore, but that it is designed to take the .45 Auto cartridge specifically. When speaking of revolvers, however, "45 caliber" probably means the .45 Colt. Each of those names refers to an industry standard set of specifications regulating all aspects of the cartridge to ensure compatibility and safety. While almost all cartridge designations have a diameter in the name, this is usually only approximate; often rounded or truncated to two places.. For example, the .45 Auto specifies a bullet diameter of .451" while the .45 Colt takes a .454" bullet. In some cases, it's even worse: the .38 Special cartridge has a bullet diameter of .357 inches.

 

I shouldn't have to say this, but it's critically important to be sure that a firearm is operated with only the correct ammunition. Attempting to fire the wrong ammunition will AT BEST result in the gun working poorly; more serious consequences include permanent damage to the gun and injury to the operator. Such injury often affects delicate areas such as the hands and face, for reasons that should be obvious.

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On 9/22/2018 at 9:04 AM, Surrealone said:

Neil,

He first asked what the difference is between .38 and .380 caliber. To answer that properly, bullet length and shape are completely irrelevant to a correct technical response, since caliber is, by definition, the internal diameter of the gun barrel (aka the diameter of the projectile shot by the gun). Technically, this means that the difference between .38 and .380 caliber is only notation (and nothing more, since there's no other difference because they represent the same diameter).

 

He then asked what differentiates the two as ammunition -- which I take to mean "What is the difference between .38 special and .380 ACP cartridges?"  That, sir, is where I believe your answers come in.

 

I figured I'd pipe up and clarify … since the first question appeared to have gone unaddressed.

Then there is .38 ACP,  .38 Super, and 9mm Largo. that have 23 mm casings, but are not quite intechangeable. (Semi rimmed rimless, ect.).

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An interesting example is the .460 Rowland which is a hopped-up, over-powered .45 Auto. Its bullet diameter and overall cartridge dimensions are identical to the .45 Auto--the only dimensional difference is the case length, which is 1/16" longer. This is only there to prevent the round from chambering in .45 Auto barrels, which are not designed to handle the higher pressure of the .460 Rowland. They could have had two distinct cartridges with entirely identical dimensions, although it should be obvious why that's a bad idea.

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51 minutes ago, Zeropoint said:

An interesting example is the .460 Rowland which is a hopped-up, over-powered .45 Auto. Its bullet diameter and overall cartridge dimensions are identical to the .45 Auto--the only dimensional difference is the case length, which is 1/16" longer. This is only there to prevent the round from chambering in .45 Auto barrels, which are not designed to handle the higher pressure of the .460 Rowland. They could have had two distinct cartridges with entirely identical dimensions, although it should be obvious why that's a bad idea.

 A bad, and also historical idea.

 Once upon a time in the United states. 9mm Parabellum was just a European curiosity, laughed at by real men that used .45ACP, as god intended.  Parabellum was just a rimless .38, they thought, and ignored it.. until...

 

WW2 came along and American G.I.'s faced the 9mm Parabellum Cartridge not only from Lugers, but also the various axis sub machine guns, such as the MP-40, and the Beretta model 38. The Luger became a prized souvenir as were other 9mm's like the Polish M-35, the Astra400, the P-38, and the Browning Hi-Power (and not a small number of MP-40's too). Also among the souvenirs collected by the stalwart GIs was the M1910 Glisenti, also known as the "Italian Luger".  The pistol was noticeably weak, so it was chamber for a proprietary cartridge, 9mm Glisenti,  WHICH WAS DIMENSIONALLY IDENTICAL TO 9MM PARABELLUM!!  So the returned GI's would take the Italian pistol out to a range or the desrt or the wood or what have you, chamber a round of 9mm Para, and after a few rounds, the pistol would either come apart, send the slide into the shooter's face, or explode.  Remington, a purveyor of ammunition saw this, and backed down the charge of 9mm parabellum in the U.S. to around what the Glisenti round had been. It's still at this level today. This means my Luger doesn't feed properly, unless I buy 9mm +P, or 9mm listed as "Submachine gun" ammo, because that is the original charge that 9mm Parabellum was supposed to have.

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1 hour ago, DusterBoy said:

So, MP-40s were brought back to the US? I wonder how many survived for any length of time?

Quite a large number, actually, though and a still large number were registered in the 1968 amnesty l. I used to see them commonly at the WW2 re-enactments I participated in during the 90’s.  They are one of my favorites to use as they are accurate and controllable, but I like the Baretta Model 1938 as well. 

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I was thinking in terms of a potential 50's Atomic Horror (giant bugs, UFOs, etc) style campaign and having my PC carry an MP-40 . In the mid-  to late-50s, how widely available was 9mm Luger?

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34 minutes ago, DusterBoy said:

I was thinking in terms of a potential 50's Atomic Horror (giant bugs, UFOs, etc) style campaign and having my PC carry an MP-40 . In the mid-  to late-50s, how widely available was 9mm Luger?

 

Pretty widely available, though the main source would be surplus British, and allied ammo. Commercially manufactured Ammo by Remington would be widely available as well, just not as powerful. 

 

The availability for sale of MP-40’s would be slightly restricted due to them being an NFA, item, and the $200 tax stamp would be a bit of a bite, however, acquiring one from a ex-GI under the table would be cheaper. Just don’t get caught. Remember, most gun restrictions were as a result of the political violence and assasinations

of the 1960’s. 

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1 hour ago, DusterBoy said:

Oh, I was actually thinking in terms of a pen and paper PC. Thanks anyway.

 

Thats what I figured. Always give authors too much information and you get acknowledgements and free books.  The info provided was from a 1950’s perspective. Today scarcity and inflation has flipped the dynamic. What used to be a $100 war souvenir, in the 1950’s, is now a $3. -$5000 collectible today. 

 

Yes, your American player character, can have an MP-40, in an irradiated, post nuclear adventure in the US. 

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