"On Your Feet, Soldier!"

[RDU Neil]

So, we are building a character who has a variety of "leadership" abilities that can have mechanical effect in the game. This is my semi-realistic, heroic level, guns and martial arts, spec ops and private eyes and such. Any "special abilities" by the PCs have to fall within the "could be explained away."

 

In this case, a new character is going to be the best squad leader ever. Building abilities that buff the other players, assuming certain actions... like "+2 DCV for all teammates while performing Cover Fire maneuver vs. enemies, etc"  We'll figure them out as we go.

 

The one in particular here is the "On Your Feet, Soldier!" maneuver, where the PC can spend a turn on a teammate who is stunned or unconscious, and get them back into the fight. The Stun part is easy... a heal, limited to Recover rate or something... but what I want to get past is the Con Stunned part. I want the PC to be able to remove Con Stun from another PC, so they are back on their feet and don't lose an action automatically.

 

I'm thinking I'll just fudge this for the effect we want... but I'm wondering if there is something already in the mechanics of healing or whatever, where Con Stunned can be negated by some power/ability?

 

Anyone know? I'm not finding anything as I go through 6th.

Thanks!

[RDU Neil]

Ok wait... I found this...

 

"(a) the STUN lost to the attack is completely
restored by Healing, and (b) one additional die of
Healing STUN (or Simplified Healing) is applied
to “eliminate being Stunned,” Healing can remove
the need to recover from being Stunned."

 

This is a good place to start... though this is too severe for what I want. The teammate shouldn't have to be fully healed from that blow to also not be Stunned. I guess I can start with this and just fudge it, as I don't think it will be overpowered. One person using an action to get another person an action (assuming they are conscious and able to act) seems pretty fair.

 

 

Ok then... never mind!

[eepjr24]

I would probably just add the additional die of healing, linked to the first heal (-3/4), with a custom limitation Does not restore stun, only removes Stunned Condition (-2), Cannot be pushed (-1/4) and Incantations (-1/4), Full Phase (-1/2). That brings the total cost to 2 points, a reasonable cost for it I think.

 

- E

[Funk Thompson]

+CON, "only to prevent or recover from CON stun"?

[dsatow]

Or a limitation set effect must use one die of healing to remove the stunned condition.

[unclevlad]

Perhaps 10 point Transform?  Remove Stunned condition?

[dsatow]

9 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Perhaps 10 point Transform?  Remove Stunned condition?

But then you'd have to exceed body in transform.

[unclevlad]

Mmm...stupid rule, for this.  Means there's darn near nothing that's "minor" with Transforms.  At least with regard to people.  I suppose that's why there's Aid and Healing, I guess.

[Hugh Neilson]

On 6/28/2018 at 12:59 PM, RDU Neil said:

Ok wait... I found this...

 

"(a) the STUN lost to the attack is completely
restored by Healing, and (b) one additional die of
Healing STUN (or Simplified Healing) is applied
to “eliminate being Stunned,” Healing can remove
the need to recover from being Stunned."

 

This is a good place to start... though this is too severe for what I want. The teammate shouldn't have to be fully healed from that blow to also not be Stunned. I guess I can start with this and just fudge it, as I don't think it will be overpowered. One person using an action to get another person an action (assuming they are conscious and able to act) seems pretty fair.

 

 

Ok then... never mind!

 

Assuming you want this to be easier, this rule seems like a precedent that 1d6 Healing can remove the Stunned condition.  It could be as simple as saying that 1d6 Healing Stun can be redirected to remove being Stunned, at the cost of getting no other benefit from that 1d6.  If that's too cheap, then make it more dice of healing sacrificed to remove being Stunned.

 

Given the Healer is losing his own action to let the stunned target get his phase back, this doesn't seem unbalancing.

[RDU Neil]

16 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Assuming you want this to be easier, this rule seems like a precedent that 1d6 Healing can remove the Stunned condition.  It could be as simple as saying that 1d6 Healing Stun can be redirected to remove being Stunned, at the cost of getting no other benefit from that 1d6.  If that's too cheap, then make it more dice of healing sacrificed to remove being Stunned.

 

Given the Healer is losing his own action to let the stunned target get his phase back, this doesn't seem unbalancing.

 

Totally agree... this is basically what I did. 3d6 healing, one of which is only applied to removing Con Stunned effect, and the other two limited only to what the downed character's REC would be (in the game level we are playing, that is usually 5 or 6). And of course, the downed character has to be back above 0 to not have to do another REC, but in scenario's where getting someone back in the fight faster can be crucial we are hoping this will play out well. If it turns out to be a dud of an ability, we'll make it something else.

 

If you have any cool ideas for small "Squad Leader Buffs!" that fit a cinematic Bourne meets X-Files type of world, let me know. I'm working on "CHAARGE!" where, as long as the PC is blazing away as he charges a position, he gets +PRE to make the opponents take a defensive action instead of firing back immediately. Like a locked in, defined PRE attack that works in only specific scenarios. Little things like this that really enhance squad team tactics... while leader does X... teammates receive benefits Y.

 

Character hasn't been played in game, yet, as he is being built to replace one killed off in our last big session (the massive shootout I wrote about in the Body Armor thread). The PC basically died because the other guys on the squad went off and did their own thing, and there was no team coordination and he was isolated and eventually the dice caught up with him. The whole play group realized how badly they had planned and it cost them, and the NPC leader type is re-organizing them and getting them professional tactical training to work together, bringing in a pro... the new PC. (It was actually very cool from a story telling perspective, in that the PCs were a loose group of incredibly talented, amazing ability Special types... a master martical artist, a ninja, an ex-VDV trooper with either mystical ability to talk to spirits or brain damage so that he thought that was the case, a master disguise, infiltration assassin type (disguise and acting abilities so powerful they verge on shapeshift). They'd coasted by on pure talent and being way more points than most of their opponents... but they hit a hardened target with professional, armored mercs, prepared and trained to work together, with assault rifles, etc. Only their 'specialness' kept them from being totally cut to pieces, though all were badly messed up, one dead, by the end.

 

It was a brutal (but brilliantly fun) session, and they seemed to learn from it (metagame and in game) and are focusing on being a real team. Easier to wrangle cats than badass PCs who all think they are right. heh. We'll see.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its probably best built with a transform but that's pretty excessive for such a temporary condition.  I would allow a healer with a single die of healing (stun) and the "heal limbs" adder to recover targets from being stunned, on the principle that this is at least as severe a condition as having an arm hacked off.  Putting a "only to remove stunned condition" limitation on it (-1 to -2 modifier) would be good enough.  Yeah its cheap but literally all it does is release targets from being stunned.  And the odds of being in a position to do so before they recover naturally isn't great to begin with.

 

Most if not all these could be tied to a presence roll (to simulate leadership) or even a presence attack.  Presence attacks can also cheer and embolden those nearby, which is more subjective but with GM approval can apply small bonuses

[RDU Neil]

25 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Its probably best built with a transform but that's pretty excessive for such a temporary condition.  I would allow a healer with a single die of healing (stun) and the "heal limbs" adder to recover targets from being stunned, on the principle that this is at least as severe a condition as having an arm hacked off.  Putting a "only to remove stunned condition" limitation on it (-1 to -2 modifier) would be good enough.  Yeah its cheap but literally all it does is release targets from being stunned.  And the odds of being in a position to do so before they recover naturally isn't great to begin with.

 

Most if not all these could be tied to a presence roll (to simulate leadership) or even a presence attack.  Presence attacks can also cheer and embolden those nearby, which is more subjective but with GM approval can apply small bonuses

 

The presence attack is definitely part of the character, the player likes defined choices that can be optimized during the game. He loves martial arts and combat maneuvers, because it enables his love of "mastering the rules" with creating very descriptive and cinematic fight scenes. He is the most "gamist" (self-proclaimed) of our players, so wants to apply a mastery of the rules to do well in game to feel good about playing... about making the right decisions for a situation. Where I'd be happy with simple "High presences to do cool leadership stuff in combat!" and just role play it, the more there are a series of defined maneuvers that provided mechanical effects, the more he'll have fun. We are building a Multi-power with slots that would essentially reflect a "Leadership Martial Art" in a way.

 

Building to play style within the context of the game... one of the things I do like about Hero, even though I don't really enjoy number crunching at all. In the end, I just like to feel that "points spent are worth what happens in game" as the final judge... not some formula for the right cost.

[dsatow]

First off: I agree the best way is to use 1d6 of healing to remove the stunned condition.  

 

Secondly: There is one more unusual and not recommended way of removing the stunned condition which is to do a STUN drain to 0 for 1 second (basically a suppress STUN on a charge).  Any unconscious person automatically removes the Stun condition upon waking.  Again, not recommended, but a interesting note in the game system.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Secondly: There is one more unusual and not recommended way of removing the stunned condition which is to do a STUN drain to 0 for 1 second (basically a suppress STUN on a charge).  Any unconscious person automatically removes the Stun condition upon waking.  Again, not recommended, but a interesting note in the game system.

 

Problem is you wake at  END and Stun of what you recovered, which is a bit of a detriment.

[dsatow]

16 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Problem is you wake at  END and Stun of what you recovered, which is a bit of a detriment.

 

But if its a suppress and the Stun instantly returns, then it should be fine.  I guess you might say the end might disappear in such a scenario though.

[Surrealone]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:02 PM, dsatow said:

But then you'd have to exceed body in transform.

Minor Transform is cheap enough that enough dice to reliable exceed BODY on those with 10 BODY should be simple enough.  Bricks, of course, shouldn't get stunned to begin with (if built properly), so...  I think Minor Transform is a pretty clean (albeit imperfect) way to go.  That said, while it's messier, I think eepjr24's suggestion is probably best.

[dsatow]

4 hours ago, Surrealone said:

Minor Transform is cheap enough that enough dice to reliable exceed BODY on those with 10 BODY should be simple enough.  Bricks, of course, shouldn't get stunned to begin with (if built properly), so...  I think Minor Transform is a pretty clean (albeit imperfect) way to go.  That said, while it's messier, I think eepjr24's suggestion is probably best.

 

At 5 points per die of minor transform, you would need a minimum of 6d6 to transform a 10 Body person on average  (you need 2 x starting body to transform).  Less but more phases to undo a stun is possible, but then just recovering stun would be easier then.

[PhilFleischmann]

How about an Aid to SPD?  Enough to grant +1 SPD, which means one gained phase, to make up for the one that was lost, which then fades.  And a limitation "Only on targets who've been Stunned" so you can't just bump anyone's SPD up by one whenever you want.  So what's the value of that limitation?  -1 maybe?  Maybe more, like -2, because it only can be used in that one circumstance. 

[Doc Democracy]

ooh!  is this where psychological complications might bite folk in the behind?

 

If your character has "sulky" or "hates authority figures" or anything of that ilk then the healing effect is diminished one dice for every five points in such a complication.  That would bring home the complication element of such complications...

 

Doc

[dsatow]

On 7/3/2018 at 10:11 PM, PhilFleischmann said:

How about an Aid to SPD?  Enough to grant +1 SPD, which means one gained phase, to make up for the one that was lost, which then fades.  And a limitation "Only on targets who've been Stunned" so you can't just bump anyone's SPD up by one whenever you want.  So what's the value of that limitation?  -1 maybe?  Maybe more, like -2, because it only can be used in that one circumstance. 

 

Problem here is how changes in Speed take place during the turn according to the rules.