'18-'19 NBA Thread, aka "The #&$!&#* Warriors win again"

[Michael Hopcroft]

As requested, I have started a thread for the upcoming NBA season now that the new league year is well underway (the subtitle was suggested in the end of last season's thread.)

 

Free agency is still underway, but the plums seem to all be taken. What's left is dubious. And Portland re-upping with RFA center Jusuf Nurkic for $12 million a year (average) strikes me as odd. My thoughts on players like Nurkic are not exactly charitable. He might be a valuable piece, and there aren't that many available options at that position, but his first full season in Portland was disappointing and doesn't quite justify his folk-hero status here. Portland isn't likely to contend anytime soon (not with Curry, Harden, and now LBJ in the same conference now), but I don't think our fans are patient enough for a Philly-like four-season "process of blowing up the average roster, deliberatel being awful for a few years, and stockpiling young talent. Nor does said young talent, I don't think. Damian Lillard is the only thing keeping this franchise even trading water.

[Pariah]

...and I've seen a rumor or two about Damian Lillard going to the Lakers.

 

Which would be unfortunate. I like the kid.

[Michael Hopcroft]

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

...and I've seen a rumor or two about Damian Lillard going to the Lakers.

it would definitely be a "blow it up and start over" move on the part of the Blazers, and Paul Allen has never shown that kind of patience. I can see the lakers making the overture though, especially if they want to cut bait on Levon Ball and the whole circus that goes with him..

[Pariah]

And who wouldn't, really?

 

Meanwhile, over here in Jazzland, Grayson Allen has already had his first NBA incident. Looking forward to more of that...

[Cygnia]

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/07/05/watch-this-video-of-a-cavs-fan-accidentally-setting-himself-on-fire-trying-to-burn-his-lebron-jersey

[Michael Hopcroft]

1 minute ago, Cygnia said:

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/07/05/watch-this-video-of-a-cavs-fan-accidentally-setting-himself-on-fire-trying-to-burn-his-lebron-jersey

Some fans are just childish. Lebron has done a lot for Cleveland as an athlete, advocate, and philanthropist. It is now almost unheard of for any professional athlete to play his entire career with one team, yet people seem to still expect that. No matter what the fans think about it, he still loves Cleveland and will carry it in his heart until the day he dies. It's just that he sees the ship is going to sink for this generation of the Cavs, and wants a new challenge in his career. Plus he has family connections in LA and realizes this may be his last contract at the top of his game.

 

I wouldn't be burning jerseys if Dame went to LA, even if I do hate the Lakers. But then I don't passionately hate any professional sports franchise. Even the Sounders. I love a good rivalry that brings out the best in both parties, but I recognize that the fans of our rivals are fans like me. They love their team as sincerely as I love mine. As for the athletes, they are performers earning a living doing something at which they excel. They are also people with families to support, who know they will not be on the court forever.

[Badger]

I cant hate basketball teams all that much.  I hate the Red Sox and Giants in baseball, but I wouldn't exactly lose my mind over their championships, (though 2010-2014 tested that theory, with those getting 4 of 5 years, with year 5, being LaRussa's swan song victory, and I was anti-LaRussa)

 

I might be sympathetic to San Antonio fans burning #2 jerseys.  Because whatever LeBron or Durant may have done, at least their fans can say they played it out before leaving.  (Probably keep mentioning because he was one player I admired as of this time last year.  Strong emphasis on the past tense.  I'll try to get better on that, from here on out on this thread.)

[Enforcer84]

Oops! I started  thread too. Sorry guys. 

 

Don't think Dame will go to the Lakers as a FA but wouldn't rule it out despite his words to the contrary, however; I do believe that Dame LIKES being the Man, this has been his team since year two. It was part of what made LA want to Leave (IMO) I doubt he'd want to be in LeBron's supporting cast. Also he's from Oakland, I'd be more worried for him to go to Golden State. 

 

[Badger]

Well, everybody worries about any great player going to GS

 

Remember when Golden State was a joke.  The good old days.   (pretty much every year from 1980-2010, that didn't contain at least 2 of Mullin, Hardaway, Richmond, and Coach Nelson)

[Badger]

Enforcer mentioning on his thread about SA getting lucky and getting Duncan at #1 pick.  I believe since the start of the lottery the Spurs have only had a Top3 pick 3 times, and 2 were David Robinson, and Tim Duncan (I think the other was a #3 pick)

 

 

[Starlord]

On 7/8/2018 at 8:46 PM, Badger said:

I might be sympathetic to San Antonio fans burning #2 jerseys.  Because whatever LeBron or Durant may have done, at least their fans can say they played it out before leaving.  (Probably keep mentioning because he was one player I admired as of this time last year.  Strong emphasis on the past tense.  I'll try to get better on that, from here on out on this thread.)

 

 

Well, he did attempt to return.  Let's remember that after he sought a 2nd opinion (which all pro athletes should do), the new doctor gave a different diagnosis.  One that S.A. execs clearly didn't like and they clearly handled it poorly.  There were snide comments by Pop and his teammates, with Tony Parker (a guy who nearly broke the locker room up 2010 by sexting a teammates wife leading to two divorces) essentially calling him a liar and soft while purportedly having intimate details of his condition from a S.A. doctor perpective.  Also, he stands to lose an extra $70 million if he signs anywhere but SA., AND you can throw tens of millions on top of that because Texas has no income tax.  Finally, he would have to have planned all this with at least a year and a half left on his deal which is somewhat laughable IMO.

 

Something pretty awful must have been done on the part of S.A. for him to make this play IMO.  The fact that a massive breach of trust is at least partly a factor and its trumping $90 million is somewhat laudable on his part IMO.

 

Even the best and most professional organizations can become arrogant and condescending when a hint of disobedience flares up.

[Michael Hopcroft]

4 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

 

Well, he did attempt to return.  Let's remember that after he sought a 2nd opinion (which all pro athletes should do), the new doctor gave a different diagnosis.  One that S.A. execs clearly didn't like and they clearly handled it poorly.  There were snide comments by Pop and his teammates, with Tony Parker (a guy who nearly broke the locker room up 2010 by sexting a teammates wife leading to two divorces) essentially calling him a liar and soft while purportedly having intimate details of his condition from a S.A. doctor perpective.  Also, he stands to lose an extra $70 million if he signs anywhere but SA., AND you can throw tens of millions on top of that because Texas has no income tax.  Finally, he would have to have planned all this with at least a year and a half left on his deal which is somewhat laughable IMO.

 

Something pretty awful must have been done on the part of S.A. for him to make this play IMO.  The fact that a massive breach of trust is at least partly a factor and its trumping $90 million is somewhat laudable on his part IMO.

 

Even the best and most professional organizations can become arrogant and condescending when a hint of disobedience flares up.

Shades of what happened to Bill Walton in Portland. Mind you orthopedic care was not nearly as good in the late 1970s as it is now, but the Blazers handled his treatment very poorly, impacting his long-term health in the service of s deep playoff run that ended up not happening. At the time, people blamed Walton for the whole mess; I even heard complaints that his feet just weren't made for basketball. Portland fans are much more charitable now, and grateful to him for bringing a title to this city.

 

Even now, though, the Blazers have botched a lot of injury issues (Brandon Roy obliterated his knees playing for Portland, nipping short a truly promising career) and still don't always do due diligence on drafting players (Greg Oden's injury issues could have been spotted in the draft process).

[Badger]

17 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

 

Well, he did attempt to return.  Let's remember that after he sought a 2nd opinion (which all pro athletes should do), the new doctor gave a different diagnosis.  One that S.A. execs clearly didn't like and they clearly handled it poorly.  There were snide comments by Pop and his teammates, with Tony Parker (a guy who nearly broke the locker room up 2010 by sexting a teammates wife leading to two divorces) essentially calling him a liar and soft while purportedly having intimate details of his condition from a S.A. doctor perpective.  Also, he stands to lose an extra $70 million if he signs anywhere but SA., AND you can throw tens of millions on top of that because Texas has no income tax.  Finally, he would have to have planned all this with at least a year and a half left on his deal which is somewhat laughable IMO.

 

Something pretty awful must have been done on the part of S.A. for him to make this play IMO.  The fact that a massive breach of trust is at least partly a factor and its trumping $90 million is somewhat laudable on his part IMO.

 

Even the best and most professional organizations can become arrogant and condescending when a hint of disobedience flares up.

 

Yeah, SA possibly made some mistakes, though they tend to be more cautious then every single other team in all of sports.  His uncle isn't helping his cause (his uncle has almost singlehandedly succeeded in making LaVar Ball likeable).  And I don't necessarily think he thought this up in advance (he'd need Zaza as an accomplice, right off the bat).  I do think, when he tried to come back, the pain was more from what you expect you would have from repairing atrophy and wear and tear of an athlete's life, etc.  And he may have misinterpreted that.  Or maybe it wasn't completely healed, I'll give him that benefit.   

 

Unfortunately since his last game (January 13th?) legitimate or not, he has handled it in the poorest way imaginable. Yeah, I get that he is quiet.  I'm quiet in real life, much more so at his age, too.   But, at the very least he kept his team, his coach, and his teammates largely in the dark for the next 3 months, and shouldn't get a free pass for that.   At the very least, Kawhi needs to grow up and quit listening to his cancerous uncle.  He is leading him to ruin (if not already lead him to it).

 

Note: And I wouldn't trust Tony Parker with anything.  COurse, he's Charlotte's problem now.  

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Michael Hopcroft said:

Shades of what happened to Bill Walton in Portland. Mind you orthopedic care was not nearly as good in the late 1970s as it is now, but the Blazers handled his treatment very poorly, impacting his long-term health in the service of s deep playoff run that ended up not happening. At the time, people blamed Walton for the whole mess; I even heard complaints that his feet just weren't made for basketball. Portland fans are much more charitable now, and grateful to him for bringing a title to this city.

 

Even now, though, the Blazers have botched a lot of injury issues (Brandon Roy obliterated his knees playing for Portland, nipping short a truly promising career) and still don't always do due diligence on drafting players (Greg Oden's injury issues could have been spotted in the draft process).

 

And Sam Bowie was an injury mess in college, and they still drafted him at #1.  (and no I don't think they should have drafted Jordan,  they are already had that type player in Drexler)

 

But, yeah, I am not giving the Spurs a pass per se.  Leonard has done nothing to help his cause, though.  I could be brought back to his side even. (though not as long as his uncle is there).  

 

 

Edit:  Things may indeed come to light, to at least partially exonerate him.  But, fair or not, he will have to wear the bad rep until it does.  And he and/or his group has contributed a large, an ever increasing part of it.  

[Enforcer84]

No. Hakeem Olajuwon went #1 to Houston. Portland lost the coin toss and took the next best big-man available.

Also No. Brandon Roy's knees where both damaged before Portland took him hoping they could get a few good years out of him. 

Quote

Brandon Roy was on his way to becoming one of the 10 best players in the NBA when a degenerative condition in his knees began to slow him down. The primary reason he dropped in the draft, Roy’s troublesome knees were gradually eroding as the cartilage wore away with the grind of an NBA season, and after three All-Star seasons in a row from 2008 to 2010 Roy hit a complete wall. He played in 47 games in 2011, retiring after the season. After extensive rehab and rest he attempted a comeback for the 2012-13 season, but he lasted just five games with the Timberwolves before being waived and retiring for good.

 

Surprisingly, Greg Oden had 0 history (that I'm aware of) of the injuries that ruined his career. He had a torn ligament in his wrist his one year of college but no back or leg issues. Now Bill Simmons did say when Portland drafted him that he worried about him. One of his legs was shorter than the other, he looked like an old man when he walked. So it's entirely possible he had some issues but beyond his wrist the shorter High school seasons seemed to give him time to recover/hide them. The Microfracture surgery in his knee the summer he got drafted was the beginning of his Injury Parade.

[Badger]

21 minutes ago, Enforcer84 said:

No. Hakeem Olajuwon went #1 to Houston. Portland lost the coin toss and took the next best big-man available.

Also No. Brandon Roy's knees where both damaged before Portland took him hoping they could get a few good years out of him. 

 

Surprisingly, Greg Oden had 0 history (that I'm aware of) of the injuries that ruined his career. He had a torn ligament in his wrist his one year of college but no back or leg issues. Now Bill Simmons did say when Portland drafted him that he worried about him. One of his legs was shorter than the other, he looked like an old man when he walked. So it's entirely possible he had some issues but beyond his wrist the shorter High school seasons seemed to give him time to recover/hide them. The Microfracture surgery in his knee the summer he got drafted was the beginning of his Injury Parade.

 

Yeah, I meant they took Bowie as their #1 pick, my bad.

[Enforcer84]

Oh! gotcha. A correct flip of the Coin and Portland reunites Hakeem and Clyde...oh how things might have been different.

[Enforcer84]

I wonder if Houston would have taken Jordan to team with Ralph Samson? 

[Badger]

Uniting of the ACC rivals as it were.

 

But, yeah, I could see that as a possibility.  I saw some Sampson clips from his career recently, I had forgotten how athletic and even speedy he was for 7'4.

 

 

[Badger]

I've also heard mentioned Carmelo moving.  I actually think he could still be valuable as a 6th man scoring phenom off the bench.  But, I'd seriously doubt his ego could handle that.

[Michael Hopcroft]

18 hours ago, Enforcer84 said:

I wonder if Houston would have taken Jordan to team with Ralph Samson? 

It would have been the logical choice.

 

And Olajuwon and Drexler together in their primes would have decimated the Western Conference. Of course, that's 20-20 hindsight knowing how great Olajuwon would become. No player is safe in Portland.

[Badger]

Well, Drexler was relatively safe.  

 

But, it would have been pretty awesome.  I rate Hakeem as #4 center of all-time (WIlt, Russell, Kareem 1-3 in no necessarily certain order).  And after Sampson's injuries till over-30 Drexler came to town, he really did play with very little help  (the likes of Otis Thorpe and Vernon Maxwell were solid players, but I don't think anyone in their right mind will be comparing them to the Worthys, Pippens, Paytons, and Stocktons when it comes to 2nd best players on teams at that time)

 

I was trying to figure out who #2 to David Robinson would have been until Duncan came, Sean Elliott, maybe?

 

 

[Grailknight]

It was Terry Cummings until he was injured then Rod Strickland then Sean Elliott. Once Duncan got to the team,  Robinson was the second best player.

[Badger]

Yeah, RObinson was getting older when Duncan came.  So, it wasn't long before Duncan took the #1 title.

 

Yeah, I had forgotten about Strickland.

[Enforcer84]

Robinson also had some late career back issues. It's how they got Duncan in the first place