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Summoning Weapons


Daisuke
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First off, I want to make sure I (and others reading this) understand what you mean by "summoning weapons." My assumption is that you mean that you want to have a weapon that appears instantly in your hand when you want it, and goes away when you don't. Thus, if someone tries to take it away from you, they won't succeed, because you can just "summon" it back to your hand.

 

Buying this is easy:  buy whatever Attack Power you want to define the weapon's effect (typically Blast or RKA). That's it -- since the weapon can "come and go" as you please, it doesn't have a Focus Limitation (depending on the nature of the weapon and the power, it may or may not have Charges and other Limitations commonly taken for weapons). Even though a physical object is involved, the way the power works, your character isn't any more restricted in his use of the attack than a character who can fire a Blast from his hands or eyes (for example).

 

If your idea of "summoning weapons" is different, please let me know and I'll try again. :)

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If the weapon can be targeted or temporarily removed you can buy it with Physical Manifestation as well. 

 

If you are looking for something that you can give to others and have them use, you can buy the powers with UBO, in one of it's various incarnations.

 

Lastly, if you are talking about creating intelligent weapons that have their own will and powers, that really is the summon power, the special effect is just that the being looks like what we weould consider a weapon.

 

- E

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1 minute ago, eepjr24 said:

Lastly, if you are talking about creating intelligent weapons that have their own will and powers, that really is the summon power, the special effect is just that the being looks like what we weould consider a weapon.

 

- E

That is an excellent point. I might also suggest building as an Automaton since things like intelligent swords and intelligent gems are probably resistant or immune to various powers in their own right. Diamonds are largely immune to heat for example, and I'd be pretty leery about using a Drain or other effects on something that may or many not have the appropriate powers/attributes (or be inherently resistant to, like the diamond example previously).

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6 minutes ago, g3taso said:

That is an excellent point. I might also suggest building as an Automaton since things like intelligent swords and intelligent gems are probably resistant or immune to various powers in their own right. Diamonds are largely immune to heat for example, and I'd be pretty leery about using a Drain or other effects on something that may or many not have the appropriate powers/attributes (or be inherently resistant to, like the diamond example previously).

Being an automaton does not prevent drains, just halves the effectiveness of drains against the actual automaton powers. It does not affect other powers or attributes differently from the normal mechanism of drains. If you want that, buy Damage Negation (versus body drain) or Power Defense.

 

Also, just because some material is inherently resistant to something does not mean that it gets those resistances for automatically or for free. Steel is resistant to bullets, but you can't just say you have a steel suit and get rPD for free.

 

When you say that diamond is inherently resistant to heat, I am guessing you are referring to it's high thermal diffusivity? If so, that property is awesome if you are looking for heat transmission, but not so great if you are looking for something to say, keep heat away from you. It would pass it through to you better than almost anything else, about 10 times faster than gold (which is HIGHLY thermally diffusive).

 

- E

Edited by eepjr24
Added thoughts on "inherent" properties of materials.
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Hey I was wondering what is the game mechanic on summoning weapons, I checked out the summon power but it's for beings only.

 

You can with GM permission summon things other than beings -- bases and AI's for example.  Anything that has points, you can summon if the GM says its okay.  So you could build a power where you summon a sword if you chose to, but as others have pointed out typically other powers work better for this, and you have to work out rules for how long the thing stays around etc.

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I like the idea of the physical manifestation, but I was wondering how it would work with certain martial maneuvers like  "Swordfight". I wasn't sure if I had to use the equipment guide book to create the sword itself and say I summon it as a special effect. 

 

The blade I'm trying to make it a physical sword like a regular sword but the thing is my character summons the sword in stead, I understand the UOO(Usable On Other) and the physical manifestation, but will that allow me to use swordfighting martial maneuvers. Like do I still have to give my sword STR min, BODY, Mass, and A/R Cost on top of the blast power. And for the blast attacks would the blast have the limitations of a focus (witch is the summoned weapon) and/or Linked for actually summoning the sword

 

Ex. Of summoning weapons in games and anime are

-Kingdom Hearts Sora's Key Blade

-Fate Stay Night Archers Dual Blades (YouTube: Archer vs Lance School Fight)

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The way that I was picturing "summoned weapons" was similar to Mjölnir in the since that it could be thrown, hit target (with successful attack), then auto return all in one phase.  Although I can see a weapon teleporting in either step one or three, if not both.  In either case, the game effects will still be the same, it will only be described in a slightly different manner.

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Usually the "flies back to your hand" is done either with:

  • OIF (it just cannot be kept away from you)
  • no focus at all (its just a blast with a neat special effect)
  • telekinesis which pulls the item back to you (but you'd have to do that on your attack action and take time
  • teleport to your hand triggered by the attack 
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17 hours ago, Christopher Derosla said:

 

 

The blade I'm trying to make it a physical sword like a regular sword but the thing is my character summons the sword in stead, I understand the UOO(Usable On Other) and the physical manifestation, but will that allow me to use swordfighting martial maneuvers. Like do I still have to give my sword STR min, BODY, Mass, and A/R Cost on top of the blast power. And for the blast attacks would the blast have the limitations of a focus (witch is the summoned weapon) and/or Linked for actually summoning the sword

 

 

So let me see if I understand.

 

You're standing around unarmed when the villainous Count Yoohout spots you and that you're unarmed. He draws his sword and says "Having caught you unarmed and helpless I shall now most unchivalrously run you through!" he declares.

 

But you "summon" (whatever that entails) a sword and suddenly are NOT unarmed, but have a sword in hand. You want to use a martial maneuver to block the count's attack. Can you?
 

A: it depends on Weapons Elements. If the default element for your art is "swords" well, you have a sword and I'd say you're good to go. Some people might say you need a special Weapon Element for "summoned swords." Either way you probably bought what you need, so you block the count's thrust, then use an Offensive Strike in response.

 

Stepping back, Count Yoohout says "I was deeply offended by that counterattack, mostly because I thought you were not armed. Now I shall disarm you!" He steps back and uses his Disarm maneuver. He rolls well. What happens?

 

You tell me:

Does nothing happen, because your special sword can't be so easily taken away?
Does the sword fly out of your hand but then immediately fly back?

Does the sword fly out of your hand and now you need to "summon" it again (whatever that entails)

Does the sword fly out of your hand and now you have to actually dodge around Count Yoohout and run across the room to retrieve it?

Does something else I haven't imagined happen?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Undisarmed palindromedary

 

 

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20 hours ago, Christopher Derosla said:

I like the idea of the physical manifestation, but I was wondering how it would work with certain martial maneuvers like  "Swordfight". I wasn't sure if I had to use the equipment guide book to create the sword itself and say I summon it as a special effect. 

 

The blade I'm trying to make it a physical sword like a regular sword but the thing is my character summons the sword in stead, I understand the UOO(Usable On Other) and the physical manifestation, but will that allow me to use swordfighting martial maneuvers. Like do I still have to give my sword STR min, BODY, Mass, and A/R Cost on top of the blast power. And for the blast attacks would the blast have the limitations of a focus (witch is the summoned weapon) and/or Linked for actually summoning the sword

 

Ex. Of summoning weapons in games and anime are

-Kingdom Hearts Sora's Key Blade

-Fate Stay Night Archers Dual Blades (YouTube: Archer vs Lance School Fight)

 

You don't have to buy it any particular way.

 

Forget about the visual appearance of the powers for a minute.  Instead think about the basic game mechanics.  Let's say I've got a character with the power Hand Killing Attack.  This power lets me attack an opponent when I am within arm's reach.  If I hit, I do potentially lethal damage.  The power can "look" like whatever I want.  Maybe I have a glowing hand, maybe I know a ninja death strike maneuver, maybe I've got razor sharp claws, maybe I've got a sword, it doesn't really matter.  The visual effect does not have to change the game mechanics.

 

So we're going to start out with Hand Killing Attack.

 

Now we look at limitations.  These reduce the amount of points you have to spend by making your power worse.  If I have the power of flight, but only when I'm wearing my rocket suit, then that's worse than being able to fly any time I damn well please.  It's limiting because now I can't fly through downtown butt naked (and really that's kind of the whole point, isn't it?).  Also if somebody steals my rocket suit, then I can't fly.  The Focus limitation allows someone to take away my powers if they get my focus from me.  Since you don't want your sword to be taken away (or you can just snap your fingers and the sword teleports back to your hand), then the Focus limitation doesn't seem like what you want.  Obviously a sword that can never be taken away from you is better than a sword your enemy can steal.  Better for you, anyway, and you're really the one that matters here.  So you choose not to take the Focus limitation.

 

What about Strength minimum?  Well, that limitation reduces the damage you do.  Well that sounds like it sucks, it's definitely not what you want.  So you don't take that.

 

Body doesn't matter since it's not a Focus.  The sword can't be effectively destroyed.  Even if, visually, an enemy can smash your sword apart, since the thing just reforms in your hand the next time you want to be holding a sword, it's not really necessary to assign it a Body score.  You can if you want to, it just isn't going to have any game effect beyond mere description.  Let's say you arbitrarily assign it a Body score of 12.  If your enemy targets your "sword", and does 12 Body or more, the "sword" breaks.  But then it reappears in your hand immediately afterward, so who cares?

 

The Physical Manifestation limitation may or may not be appropriate.  Remember that limitations are supposed to make your power worse.  That's why you saved points on them.  Your power can have whatever description you want -- the sword you're using can look like whatever you want.  It can have weight and mass.  It can glow different colors.  It looks like a real sword.  You don't need to take any particular limitations to get this effect.  But if you take a limitation (such as Physical Manifestation), then it's supposed to actually limit you in some way.  So let's say the bad guy runs forward and he swings his sword at yours.  He does enough damage that your sword shatters.  Now, if your sword instantly reappears in your hand and you are not disadvantaged at all by your enemy's move... how are you being limited?  If you can't think of a way that Physical Manifestation makes your power worse, then you probably shouldn't take it.

 

Your power will still have an Active Point cost, and a Real Point cost.  If you don't apply any limitations, those costs will be the same.

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On 7/20/2018 at 7:02 AM, Lucius said:

 

So let me see if I understand.

 

You're standing around unarmed when the villainous Count Yoohout spots you and that you're unarmed. He draws his sword and says "Having caught you unarmed and helpless I shall now most unchivalrously run you through!" he declares.

 

But you "summon" (whatever that entails) a sword and suddenly are NOT unarmed, but have a sword in hand. You want to use a martial maneuver to block the count's attack. Can you?
 

A: it depends on Weapons Elements. If the default element for your art is "swords" well, you have a sword and I'd say you're good to go. Some people might say you need a special Weapon Element for "summoned swords." Either way you probably bought what you need, so you block the count's thrust, then use an Offensive Strike in response.

 

Stepping back, Count Yoohout says "I was deeply offended by that counterattack, mostly because I thought you were not armed. Now I shall disarm you!" He steps back and uses his Disarm maneuver. He rolls well. What happens?

 

You tell me:

Does nothing happen, because your special sword can't be so easily taken away?
Does the sword fly out of your hand but then immediately fly back?

Does the sword fly out of your hand and now you need to "summon" it again (whatever that entails)

Does the sword fly out of your hand and now you have to actually dodge around Count Yoohout and run across the room to retrieve it?

Does something else I haven't imagined happen?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Undisarmed palindromedary

 

 

Sorry I'm just trying to wrap my head around everything, 

 

-Yes I start off unarmed, and a can bring out my swords out of nowhere. 

 

-The swords I bring out of nowhere are the weapons I use to do certain martial maneuvers (such as Counter strike, Parry, Plunging Strike, Slash, Trip and much more in the martial arts book) If I do use the blast power how would how would some of the notes/effects like +2 weapon DC strike, +10 str to disarmed, must follow a block come into effect

 

-The swords are always on my until I send them back to nothing.

 

-Also if I'm disarmed I'm just disarmed and the swords doesn't go away till I send them away or broken

 

-My sword is actually a chain sword bounded to my character. He can swing his sword around to attack at a distance, but the chain is only there when the character wants to use it. He can also use the chain to retrieve his sword, a character that comes to mind is Kratos: The God of War games his twin blades

 

-I don't understand the physical manifestation limitation very well, I get the idea

 

-also I was thinking of either put charges into how many blades I can summon a day or increase END limitation so it's not always easy to resummon the swords when disarmed (if chain doesn't work), broken, or thrown 

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2 hours ago, Christopher Derosla said:

-The swords I bring out of nowhere are the weapons I use to do certain martial maneuvers (such as Counter strike, Parry, Plunging Strike, Slash, Trip and much more in the martial arts book) If I do use the blast power how would how would some of the notes/effects like +2 weapon DC strike, +10 str to disarmed, must follow a block come into effect

 

It's starting to look as if your swords might be a good candidate for a Multipower, perhaps with a slot for the sword itself, a slot for the chainsword attack, one for the retrieval via the chain, a slot with the +10 STR limited for disarm following a block, etc. As far as I can remember, you can use the "doubling" rule of an extra 5 points to make a second sword that is identical to the first. This will require that they are both physical, however (as far as I know), and not just the special effect. 

 

Anybody else have any ideas?

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6 hours ago, Christopher Derosla said:

-The swords I bring out of nowhere are the weapons I use to do certain martial maneuvers (such as Counter strike, Parry, Plunging Strike, Slash, Trip and much more in the martial arts book) If I do use the blast power how would how would some of the notes/effects like +2 weapon DC strike, +10 str to disarmed, must follow a block come into effect

 

 

In a Champions environment, the sword is just a power effect.  So if you bought 1d6+1 HKA and possibly 1pt Use art with your Sword power with the martial maneuvers, you could use the martial maneuvers with your 1d6+1 HKA.  This is what you are doing with the power sans martial art.  You buy 1d6+1 HKA and you use the strike maneuver with it.  The strike maneuver is +0,+0 with +0DC.

 

If it has a physical component limitation (but not focii), that means the sword can be affected physically.  That could mean the sword is knocked out of your hand and you can't summon it to your hand until your next phase.  But if your art can be used barehanded, it wouldn't matter (1 pip use art barehanded) and you could still parry, etc.

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7 hours ago, Christopher Derosla said:

 

 

-Also if I'm disarmed I'm just disarmed and the swords doesn't go away till I send them away or broken

 

 

If you are disarmed, the sword has gone away - by definition. If the sword doesn't go away from you, you aren't disarmed.

 

Sounds like you shouldn't take the Focus Limitation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary can be dislegged

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To clarify the DIsarm question, if the character is disarmed, where does that leave him:

 

(a)  He has to go and get the weapon back by conventional means.  Until he does, he does not have the weapon.

 

(b)  He can dismiss the sword and resummon it, but this requires he do something that has an in-game effect (what?  expend actions?  spend endurance? speak a special phrase, so he can't do it if he can't talk?  make a specific gesture, so he can't do this if entangled or grabbed?)

 

(c)  He can just dismiss it from over there and re-summon it in his hand.

 

If it is broken, can he just re-summon it immediately, intact?  Is it gone until he can get it repaired or replaces through conventional means?  Is it unbreakable?  Something else?

 

In more general terms,. the cost of any Hero ability is not based on how you describe it, but on what it mechanically does.  The more easily it can be taken away, and kept away, the greater the limitations on his use of the abilities, and the lower the cost.  If the sword can always be resummoned with no real effort, then the abilities of the sword are in no way limited, and the abilities it grants are properly purchased with no limitations.  Summoning a sword to swing is no different from having heat vision.

 

 

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So let's look at some examples of powers in Hero, and how they're built.  Understand that these are just examples, and you can build these characters differently.  There's no rule saying that this character must be built this particular way.  This is just how I have chosen to represent each character.

 

--The Dread Pirate Roberts is a skilled swordsman.  He has purchased a Hand Killing Attack to represent his sword.  Since the weapon is separate from him, he purchases it as an OAF.  If he is disarmed, he has to physically go get his sword back before he can use it again.  He relies on high skill levels to avoid this, but if he does lose his sword, he's going to have to use one or more actions to go get it before he can use it again.

 

--Jason Voorhees is a masked serial killer who uses a machete (among other weapons).  He has purchased a Hand Killing Attack to represent his weapons.  While the machete is supposedly separate from him, Jason does not actually expect to be disarmed.  In his game, that is not going to be a common occurrence at all.  While he could purchase it as OAF, in the end the GM tells him not to because his victims can't disarm him anyway.  Even if they do manage to disarm him, there's always some other object nearby that Jason can use to kill a teenager.  In game terms, there is always some object of opportunity within reach, and Jason does not have to use an action to grab and use one of these objects.  While certain conditions could prevent him from grabbing a weapon, he's not actually going to encounter those in his game, so he gets no points savings for it.

 

--Wolverine is a mutant with adamantium claws.  He has purchased a Hand Killing Attack to represent these claws.  They are physically part of his body, and he cannot be disarmed by any means other than a specific storyline.  Wolverine does not take any kind of limitation on his claws.

 

--Thor is a Norse god with a magic hammer.  He purchases a whole lot of powers through the hammer, from a giant Hand Attack to Flight, to weather control abilities.  At first he is going to purchase the hammer as an OAF, since he can be disarmed.  However, upon closer examination, the hammer has so many powers that OAF doesn't really fit.  If you disarm him, the hammer flies back to his hand.  Thor's player thinks that the hammer should return before Thor's next action, meaning he doesn't need to do anything and he doesn't suffer any kind of combat penalties.  When the GM asks Thor's player if Thor can actually be disarmed, if an enemy can prevent Thor from using the hammer, the player says "sure!"  Then the player comes up with a ridiculous set of conditions that might keep the hammer from returning (dimensional portals, unbreakable force fields, etc -- and even those just add some delay before it eventually comes back).  The GM determines that this does not qualify for OAF, at most it qualifies as OIF, because for all intents and purposes the hammer is inaccessible to most foes.  It always returns, and Thor is rarely ever limited by it.

 

--Luke Skywalker is a Jedi with a lightsaber.  He purchases Hand Killing Attack to represent the lightsaber.  He can be disarmed -- the lightsaber is simply a technological weapon like any other.  But his Jedi powers mean that he can call the weapon to his hand any time he needs it.  As long as the weapon isn't physically destroyed (and to my knowledge, we never see a lightsaber get physically destroyed), he can Force Power it into his hand.  Luke is planning on taking OAF on the weapon.  If he gets disarmed, he will use his Telekinesis power to bring it to him.  This is a perfectly fine way to do it.  If he's disarmed, he will use his TK, spend his Endurance, and use his phase to move the weapon into his hand.  He also has the option of using it as OIF.  Just like Thor, if he wants to he can have the weapon fly back into his hand without using a phase.  At that point, he basically can't be disarmed normally.  He's able to use the Force so effectively that the weapon will always be in his hand when he needs it.  Rather than having to actively use Telekinesis to do this, the weapon is simply defined as being controlled by the Force and always available when he wants to use it.  Luke's player thinks that sounds cool, and so he buys it OIF.

 

--Duncan MacLeod is an immortal swordsman who uses a katana.  He purchases Hand Killing Attack to represent the sword.  Like the Dread Pirate Roberts, he can be disarmed.  He buys his sword OAF to represent this.  Other people sometimes wonder how he carries his sword around, because he pulls it out from behind his back when he wants to use it.  Sometimes he wears a long trenchcoat, and he hides his sword inside it.  Other times he wears jeans and a t-shirt, and has his sword hidden... where?  We aren't sure.  This is okay, it is covered by the genre conventions.  He can carry his sword unnoticed for the same reason that Superman's glasses fool people into thinking he's not Superman.  We just don't worry about it, and it doesn't cost any points.  But once Duncan has drawn the sword from... out of his butt or something, he's just like anyone else with a sword.  He can be disarmed, and if that happens, he's got to run over to it to pick it back up.  If his sword is broken, he's in real trouble.  He doesn't carry more swords behind his back, he's only got the one.

 

--Elmer Fudd is a hunter who carries a shotgun.  He purchases Energy Blast (it's a nonlethal game where no one is ever allowed to die) to represent the gun.  Fudd can be disarmed, sort of, but he can never really be prevented from using his weapon.  All Fudd has to do is walk offscreen, and then walk back onscreen, and he'll have another gun.  He can also pull the gun out from behind his back, or from behind a bush, or from anywhere else nearby.  Fudd has a virtually unlimited number of guns that he can grab at any moment.  Fudd gets no limitation on his weapon for this.  Fudd might take the "physical manifestation" limitation to represent that he's actually holding an object when he uses his gun.  If he does, then there should be some form of drawback when he is disarmed.  Perhaps grabbing another gun requires a half-phase action.  Perhaps a wascally wabbit can steal his gun and shoot at Fudd with it.  To receive the limitation, there's got to be some negative consequences (even if temporary) that can come about in the game.  But ultimately, Fudd will never be without his gun for more than a few seconds, because he's just drawn that way.

 

 

 

Hopefully this will help you better understand how limitations like this can apply.  It's a question of how exactly you want it to perform in the game.

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Lady Liberty is a heroine I created.  She can summon a magic torch, book shield, and golden sandals which give her various powers.

 

 

Lady Liberty [Laura Anne Lockhart]

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

10 BODY 0

13 INT 3

20 EGO 20

15 PRE 5

18 COM 4

5 PD 2

5 ED 1

4 SPD 10

7 REC 0

40 END 0

28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 100 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Bureaucratics 12-

3 Combat Piloting [Combat Aircraft] 13-

3 FB: Federal Police Powers

2 Lang: Fluent French

3 Mechanics 12-

5 Money: Well Off

2 Navigation [Air] 12-

2 Rep: Superhero 11-

2 TF: Large Aircraft, Small Aircraft

Total Skills Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Powers

15 Armor +5 rPD +5 rED

50 Multipower (50 Points)

4 u) EGO Attack 5d6, Gestures (-1/4) [Magic Torch]

4 u) EB 10d6, Gestures (-1/4) [Magic Torch]

4 u) Mind Control 10d6, Gestures (-1/4) [Magic Torch]

2 u) Missile Deflection [All Ranged Attacks] +5, Gestures (-1/4) [Book Shield]

3 u) STR +35

1 u) Transform: Instant Change [Any Clothes]

15 EC [Magic]-15 Points

12 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), [[Invisible [Hearing], Megascale [1km], 1/2 END, or Usable Underwater Only (-1/4)]]

15 2) FF +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2) [Book Shield]

Total Powers Cost: 125 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Lockhart Aircraft (Useful Normal) 8-

10 Hunted: Countress Claudia von Kruel (As Powerful) 8-

15 Hunted: Fifth Column (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

10 Hunted: U.S. Army Air Force (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

20 PsyL: Code Of The Hero (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Superpatriot (Common/Total)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

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5 hours ago, massey said:

So let's look at some examples of powers in Hero, and how they're built.  Understand that these are just examples, and you can build these characters differently.  There's no rule saying that this character must be built this particular way.  This is just how I have chosen to represent each character.

 

Lots of great stuff here.  I will ad at the OIF builds are those where it is pretty much impossible to take the character's weapon away in combat, but if he is captures, KOd, etc., people can take the focus away and put it somewhere that he cannot conveniently access it, so he will have to escape the cell, the deathtrap, whatever, without that weapon.  

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On 7/19/2018 at 10:52 AM, Steve Long said:

First off, I want to make sure I (and others reading this) understand what you mean by "summoning weapons." My assumption is that you mean that you want to have a weapon that appears instantly in your hand when you want it, and goes away when you don't. Thus, if someone tries to take it away from you, they won't succeed, because you can just "summon" it back to your hand.

 

Buying this is easy:  buy whatever Attack Power you want to define the weapon's effect (typically Blast or RKA). That's it -- since the weapon can "come and go" as you please, it doesn't have a Focus Limitation (depending on the nature of the weapon and the power, it may or may not have Charges and other Limitations commonly taken for weapons). Even though a physical object is involved, the way the power works, your character isn't any more restricted in his use of the attack than a character who can fire a Blast from his hands or eyes (for example).

 

If your idea of "summoning weapons" is different, please let me know and I'll try again. :)

Take it from Steve, he knows a LOT about "summoning weapons". The 4th edition of the Haribringer of Justice operates on that idea (a decent size VPP to represent teleporting weapons and tools).

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My problem with summoned weapons has always been the summoning itself...I OFTEN feel that there should be some kind of "continuous but not continuous" modifier (So I summon sword, the sword is now constant, so I need to pay end for it, or if I had a few lims on summons, like gestures and incantations I don't have to continually do them every round) but does not give the main advantage of continuous (repeated damage in this case).  Probably somewhere between a -1/4 to a +1/4

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