Agents of ...Primus?

[Jazzidemus]

Hiya gang. I'm looking for some input. I'm wanting to recreate the ICER gun from AoS for 5th. So its a Dendrotoxin based attack. I was thinking of a NND or possibly a Drain. the Wiki says its not very effective on Supers, I just assume its because of high rD's or immunities to toxins.

[Vondy]

NND or drain works.

 

You could slap on "not vs. resistant defense" to simulate its lack of penetrating power or need to prick the skin. 

[eepjr24]

I would go with something like a 10d6 Blast versus PD, Reduced Penetration x2 (-1/2). On an average roll this will cause 2 Body to a normal with no armor (it is still a bullet, albeit a low velocity one) and knock them out (35 Stun). I am not able to find the rules for Reduced Penetration x2 anymore, I think it was in one of the old monthly publications like Adventurers Club. Basically, you divide the dice into 4 equal (or as close as possible) sets and apply each against the PD for Body, then sum the Stun. Most low end supers would not take any body and would take 20ish or less Stun. You can alter the dice to suit if you think that it too high. Or you can just go with a single reduced penetration for hand guns and double for shotguns. Plenty of different ways to skin this cat, depending on what you are looking for exactly.

 

- E

Edited August 5, 2018 by eepjr24
Fixed wording

[Ockham's Spoon]

The problem with NND is that it is all or nothing, so if it is less effective against supers then presumably it still has *some* effect.  I would probably go with 10d6 Blast, STUN only.  That will take out a normal fairly reliably, but against supers who have much higher average defenses and STUN totals it will take multiple shots.  If you think that it should do some BODY damage but not much, then instead of STUN only maybe say "Max BODY damage is 1 pip", same zero limitation. 

[archer]

1 hour ago, eepjr24 said:

I would go with something like a 10d6 Blast versus PD, Reduced Penetration x2 (-1/2). On an average roll this will cause 2 Body to a normal with no armor (it is still a bullet, albeit a low velocity one) and knock them out (35 Stun). I am not able to find the rules for Reduced Penetration x2 anymore, I think it was in one of the old monthly publications like Adventurers Club. Basically, you divide the dice into 4 equal (or as close as possible) sets and apply each against the PD for Body, then sum the Stun. Most low end supers would not take any body and would take 20ish or less Stun. You can alter the dice to suit if you think that it too high. Or you can just go with a single reduced penetration for hand guns and double for shotguns. Plenty of different ways to skin this cat, depending on what you are looking for exactly.

 

- E

I wish Adventurer's Club had been monthly instead of once every 14 months....

[Jazzidemus]

I was thinking it's a non lethal option, the No Body route is a go

[Jazzidemus]

1 hour ago, eepjr24 said:

I would go with something like a 10d6 Blast versus PD, Reduced Penetration x2 (-1/2). On an average roll this will cause 2 Body to a normal with no armor (it is still a bullet, albeit a low velocity one) and knock them out (35 Stun). I am not able to find the rules for Reduced Penetration x2 anymore, I think it was in one of the old monthly publications like Adventurers Club. 

 

- E

Hmmmm. Might be in Dark Champs maybe? 4th or 5th? I remember those rule vaguely. Sounds like a DC thing....

[dsatow]

You could make it a mind control cumulative telepathic set effect "Sleep" going against PD instead of mental defense and vs. Con.

 

Something like :

22pts Mind Control 10d6, Alternate Combat Value (uses OCV against DCV; +0), Telepathic (+1/4), Cumulative (+1/2) (87 Active Points); Based on CON (Defense: PD; -1), OAF (-1), Set Effect (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4)

 

Hrrmmm, might use something like it for Until agents ...

 

[Steve]

You could do it as an AVLD (Power Defense), since some write-ups use Power Defense as a resistance to toxin-based attacks. 

[Grailknight]

Reduced Penetration is on page 113 of CC.  My 6th is in storage tho. sorry.

 

In any case for Reduced Penetration you divide the attack by half, apply each half to the target's defenses separately and the target takes  the sum of what gets through.

[dsatow]

Reduced Penetration limitation  -1/4 6e1p388

     An Attack Power bought with this Limitation has less ability to penetrate defenses than a normal attack. Reduced Penetration splits the attack into two equal parts for the purpose of determining BODY damage and applying that damage to the target’s defenses. If the Attack Power is an HA or HKA, the damage added by STR (or other means, such as a Combat Maneuver or Combat Skill Levels) should be added before the attack is split in two.
     When determining how much STUN damage the target takes, add the two attacks together before rolling the STUN Multiplier or applying the target’s defenses. Use this “combined” STUN total to determine how much STUN damage the target takes and whether he’s Stunned or Knocked Out by the attack. Determine Knockback from the highest BODY roll.
     If a character takes Reduced Penetration for a power that uses the Normal Damage BODY rolled on the dice to determine the power’s effect (such as Flash), divide the dice in two, make the two effect rolls, and apply the effects separately against the target’s defenses.

      Although a Reduced Penetration attack splits into two parts for BODY damage purposes, the character using it may only attack one target and only rolls one Attack Roll. If the roll succeeds, “both” attacks hit, if it fails, “both” miss.

 

Note: Since 6th edition, I haven't seen it used more than once on a power though I haven't read through all the books to be sure.

[Jazzidemus]

20 hours ago, dsatow said:

You could make it a mind control cumulative telepathic set effect "Sleep" going against PD instead of mental defense and vs. Con.

 

Something like :

22pts Mind Control 10d6, Alternate Combat Value (uses OCV against DCV; +0), Telepathic (+1/4), Cumulative (+1/2) (87 Active Points); Based on CON (Defense: PD; -1), OAF (-1), Set Effect (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4)

 

Hrrmmm, might use something like it for Until agents ...

 

That is a route I did not think of...Interesting

[Jazzidemus]

ICER Pistol:  Energy Blast 8d6, Attack Versus Limited Defense (Resistant Defense; +3/4) (70 Active Points); OAF (-1), 12 Charges (-1/4)?

[dsatow]

2 hours ago, Jazzidemus said:

ICER Pistol:  Energy Blast 8d6, Attack Versus Limited Defense (Resistant Defense; +3/4) (70 Active Points); OAF (-1), 12 Charges (-1/4)?

 

Making a normal attack go against resistant shouldn't be more the +1/2.  Reasoning: To make non-resistant defense resistant is only +1/2.

[Jazzidemus]

4 minutes ago, dsatow said:

 

Making a normal attack go against resistant shouldn't be more the +1/2.  Reasoning: To make non-resistant defense resistant is only +1/2.

OK, I went through HD 5th. this is what it came up with. I'll adjust it. Good looking out.