A Human Firewing

[Steve]

In my Champions campaign, while the PCs are busy fighting in Malva's gladiatorial arena, one of their DNPCs, an unpowered human, has entered Malva's Furnace of the First Ones, for reasons I am not at liberty to say because a couple of my players read these forums.

 

Assuming she survives the experience and experiences a superhero origin, I'm wondering how closely I should make her powers to be like Firewing's?

 

Would anyone surviving the experience become just like Firewing or would only Malvans gain that specific powerset and other races would be affected differently?

 

How do you think Malvans might react to the appearance of a non-Malvan Firewing?

[unclevlad]

#1:  Is Firewing's power level appropriate?

#2:  even if it is, why duplicate?  Heck, how about going another way altogether?  Furnace...hot metal.  Colossus with a big heat-based damage shield!  (And, yes, I do intend to mean a big Only In Alternate ID basis.)  

#3:  Will the Malvans mind?  Only one opinion matters there...yours.    Any kind of reaction can be justified, unless the source material specifically has statements on this...and I rather doubt that.

[BoloOfEarth]

Is the change going to be permanent?  If so, does the player have to buy off the difference between DNPC (normal) and DNPC (slightly less powerful)?  Easy enough to make them temporary:  she's human, so the Furnace doesn't affect her permanently

 

If they're permanent, I could see benefits to making the DNPC's powers match, or at least mirror, Firewing's.  Might he see her as a potential mate?  (If so, I foresee plenty of future interactions between the hero and Firewing.)  Maybe being human makes her powers come out differently -- say light instead of fire -- but still have giant glowy wings so she appears like Firewing.

 

Or maybe he's not interested in her that way (since she's human), but the Malvans see her similarities to him and immediately "ship" them.  (Firewing + Lightwing = FireLight)

[archer]

Whether anything at all happens is up to you as GM. "Malva's Furnace of the First Ones" is just a name until the GM gives that name some power to accomplish something.

 

Maybe the old Malva's Furnace of the First Ones which gave out superpowers was wiped out in an accident (or is on another world) and the NPC went into the memorial of the original Malva's Furnace of the First Ones.

 

Maybe the furnace only works while there's a lot of sunspots and the planet is going through a cosmic storm. Or only works on alternate Thursdays. If it worked 100% of the time, there'd be riots with hordes of people trying to get in and every 2 bit criminal on the planet would be scheming to jump into the thing.

 

But if the furnace works at all, I would feel that it takes the person's potential and amps it up. If the NPC started off as a world class combat champion on Earth, maybe it would take her up to Firewing levels. But if she couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag, her powered up form shouldn't be any more than starting point superheroes in the campaign.

 

Given that the origin story is a furnace, the powers given should be heat themed in some manner. If you don't want to turn her into a fully-scale super, you could make her normal characteristic maximum but toward the top end and make her highly resistant to fire damage, for example. It might even take her a while to figure out she's fire resistant but when she does, she wants to become a fireman.

 

I don't think you should try to mimic Firewing's powers unless you think that would be good for whatever story line you have in mind.

[archer]

1 hour ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Is the change going to be permanent?  If so, does the player have to buy off the difference between DNPC (normal) and DNPC (slightly less powerful)?  Easy enough to make them temporary:  she's human, so the Furnace doesn't affect her permanently

 

If they're permanent, I could see benefits to making the DNPC's powers match, or at least mirror, Firewing's.  Might he see her as a potential mate?  (If so, I foresee plenty of future interactions between the hero and Firewing.)  Maybe being human makes her powers come out differently -- say light instead of fire -- but still have giant glowy wings so she appears like Firewing.

 

Or maybe he's not interested in her that way (since she's human), but the Malvans see her similarities to him and immediately "ship" them.  (Firewing + Lightwing = FireLight)

 

Firewing could be highly offended that a human defiled the sacred furnace and vows to wipe even the memory of her from the universe.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

Firewing could be highly offended that a human defiled the sacred furnace and vows to wipe even the memory of her from the universe.

 

If you go by the official lore of Malva, "sacredness" is where the potential complication lies. Per Champions Beyond pp. 99 and 108, the Furnace of the First Ones is the focus of the ancient Malvan religion of Rathuliorn, "a monotheistic religion with messianic and fire-worship elements that considers Firewing a divine being." Most modern Malvans consider religion a quaint superstition, but a small sect of Rathuliorns still exist on Malva, worshiping at the Grand Temple, where an order of Malvan priests conduct elaborate ceremonies and tend the Furnace.

 

From what we know of Malva, I doubt most Malvans would care if a human walked through the Furnace of the First Ones. But the reaction of the Rathuliorns is hard to predict. It's almost certain they would never allow a human even within the Great Temple if they had any say in it. But if a human actually entered the Furnace, and not only survived but was empowered, would that be viewed as blasphemous, or a sign of divine favor? That's uncharted territory, so I'd say you should choose whichever works best for your story.

 

A few things to keep in mind: Per Firewing's origin (most recently in CV Vol. 3) the legends of the Furnace state that it "burns away" weakness and imperfection. Per the statement of the Wisdom Stones, all others who tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Firewing perished. Ariax Thone experienced great pain when he entered the Furnace. However, he possessed "minor fire powers" even before then, which may have helped protect him; and that similarity may be why the Furnace granted him the powers it did.

 

Also, p. 102 of Champions Beyond, describing the Malvan/Elder Worm war, notes that the Malvans fielded a cadre of elite warriors called the Golden Hunters, granted super-powers through Malvan science. Yet "the most powerful of all were the Starwings, who'd walked into the Furnace of the First Ones and been granted superpowers even greater than those given to other Hunters through Malvan ultra-science." Implicitly, being empowered by the Furnace isn't a once-in-an-eon event, although it's likely that only a fraction of volunteers who walked into the Furnace survived. The precise powers of the Starwings aren't described, but the similarity of their name to Firewing's suggest thematic similarities. Also implicitly, the prophecy of the Firewing post-dates the Elder Worm war.

[archer]

5 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you go by the official lore of Malva, "sacredness" is where the potential complication lies. Per Champions Beyond pp. 99 and 108, the Furnace of the First Ones is the focus of the ancient Malvan religion of Rathuliorn, "a monotheistic religion with messianic and fire-worship elements that considers Firewing a divine being." Most modern Malvans consider religion a quaint superstition, but a small sect of Rathuliorns still exist on Malva, worshiping at the Grand Temple, where an order of Malvan priests conduct elaborate ceremonies and tend the Furnace.

 

From what we know of Malva, I doubt most Malvans would care if a human walked through the Furnace of the First Ones. But the reaction of the Rathuliorns is hard to predict. It's almost certain they would never allow a human even within the Great Temple if they had any say in it. But if a human actually entered the Furnace, and not only survived but was empowered, would that be viewed as blasphemous, or a sign of divine favor? That's uncharted territory, so I'd say you should choose whichever works best for your story.

 

A few things to keep in mind: Per Firewing's origin (most recently in CV Vol. 3) the legends of the Furnace state that it "burns away" weakness and imperfection. Supposedly, many others who tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Firewing perished. Ariax Thone experienced great pain when he entered the Furnace. However, he possessed "minor fire powers" even before then, which may have helped protect him; and that similarity may be why the Furnace granted him the powers it did.

 

Also, p. 102 of Champions Beyond, describing the Malvan/Elder Worm war, notes that the Malvans fielded a cadre of elite warriors called the Golden Hunters, granted super-powers through Malvan science. Yet "the most powerful of all were the Starwings, who'd walked into the Furnace of the First Ones and been granted superpowers even greater than those given to other Hunters through Malvan ultra-science." Implicitly, being empowered by the Furnace isn't a once-in-an-eon event, although it's likely that only a fraction of volunteers who walked into the Furnace survived. Also implicitly, the prophecy of the Firewing post-dates the Elder Worm war.

 

That's a heck of a lot more than I remembered.

 

If it were me, I'd be less worried about what Malvans believe about it and more worried about what Firewing believes about it. I could get away from the Malvans by leaving their planet. Getting out of the reach of Firewing is much trickier unless your plan is to permanently leave Earth and go into hiding elsewhere.

[DShomshak]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

From what we know of Malva, I doubt most Malvans would care if a human walked through the Furnace of the First Ones. But the reaction of the Rathuliorns is hard to predict. It's almost certain they would never allow a human even within the Great Temple if they had any say in it. But if a human actually entered the Furnace, and not only survived but was empowered, would that be viewed as blasphemous, or a sign of divine favor? That's uncharted territory, so I'd say you should choose whichever works best for your story.

 

Indeed. All one can confidently say is that the Rathuliorns will have strong feelings about this. It is, after all, a matter of their religion in a society that does not seem very supportive of merely casual faith. And given Malvan ultra-science, even a small number of Malvans having strong feelings about you can make your life, um, interesting.

 

I wouldn't expect all Rathuliorns to feel the same way, either. Some might hate the new super in the belief she somehow "stole" divine power meant for Malvans alone. Others might want to revere her as a priestess, or even a prophet. Some members might even want to kidnap humans and throw them into the Furnace to see if this happens again. How far you go with this doctrinal infighting depends on how important you want this as a subplot for your campaign.

 

If you want to make this important enough to develop Rathuliorn further, an easy way is to model it on Zoroastrian/Mazdean religion. Read the Wikipedia article, change some names and otherwise file off the serial numbers, and your players will probably never know the difference.

 

(Or don't file off the serial numbers, go von Daniken, and say that ancient Persian fire worship is the result of Malvan influence. Hm, what was a Malvan doing on Earth thousands of years ago?)

 

As a start, Zoroastrian doctrine details at least five kinds of fire: In addition to ordinary fire there are the ritual fire of the temple, the inner fire of people andanimals, the fire of lightning, and the divine fire that burns in the presence of the supreme god, Ahura Mazda. The next six most important divine beings are the Amesha Spentas (I am horribly simplifying all this): Vohu Manah ("Good Spirit"), who instils the presence of God in the righteous and conveys them to Paradise after death; Asha ("Right"), spirit of fire and guarantor of cosmic and moral order; Kshathra ("Power"), spirit of war and metals who protects the righteous; Spenta Armati, patroness of the Earth; Haurvetate, spirit of water, prosperity and healing; and Ameretat, spirit of plants ande immortality. Possible inspiration for other power-sets the Furnacew might grant?

 

Dean Shomshak

[Mr. R]

2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

 

(Or don't file off the serial numbers, go von Daniken, and say that ancient Persian fire worship is the result of Malvan influence. Hm, what was a Malvan doing on Earth thousands of years ago?)

 

As a start, Zoroastrian doctrine details at least five kinds of fire: In addition to ordinary fire there are the ritual fire of the temple, the inner fire of people andanimals, the fire of lightning, and the divine fire that burns in the presence of the supreme god, Ahura Mazda. The next six most important divine beings are the Amesha Spentas (I am horribly simplifying all this): Vohu Manah ("Good Spirit"), who instils the presence of God in the righteous and conveys them to Paradise after death; Asha ("Right"), spirit of fire and guarantor of cosmic and moral order; Kshathra ("Power"), spirit of war and metals who protects the righteous; Spenta Armati, patroness of the Earth; Haurvetate, spirit of water, prosperity and healing; and Ameretat, spirit of plants ande immortality. Possible inspiration for other power-sets the Furnacew might grant?

 

Dean Shomshak

 

I like this.  It can give other power sets to the person.  You mention it is a DNPC.  Can we get some info on her.  Is she an Aunt May type?  or more of a talented normal like a police officer? or even more competent like an Until Agent?

 

Personality?  Take a page from Scott Bennie and let her personality fit her powers.  A nurturer?  Then that water, prosperity and healing set looks pretty good!  

 

Also I like the idea that she loses the DNPC status.  It gives the feel of an organic growing world.  I hated that scene in Iron Man 3 where he "Fixes" Pepper.  Really, she was broken?  But you will have to compensate the player for the lost points somehow!

 

[Steve]

1 hour ago, Mr. R said:

 

I like this.  It can give other power sets to the person.  You mention it is a DNPC.  Can we get some info on her.  Is she an Aunt May type?  or more of a talented normal like a police officer? or even more competent like an Until Agent?

 

Personality?  Take a page from Scott Bennie and let her personality fit her powers.  A nurturer?  Then that water, prosperity and healing set looks pretty good!  

 

Also I like the idea that she loses the DNPC status.  It gives the feel of an organic growing world.  I hated that scene in Iron Man 3 where he "Fixes" Pepper.  Really, she was broken?  But you will have to compensate the player for the lost points somehow!

 

 

She's closest in design to a Pepper Potts personal assistant sort of character rather than a Lois Lane nosy reporter type, acting as the faithful assistant to one of the PCs (Valiant). She's a PRIMUS agent built as a Powerful Hero plus experience and has been involved in some of the usual DNPC schticks of being kidnapped or threatened by supervillains. Her relationship with Valiant has always been more of a professional one than romantic, since his romance time is usually taken up with superhumans (such as dating Lady Blue a few times, romancing Istvatha V'han and having a brief "Fatal Attraction" subplot with Scorpia).

 

Valiant has more Complication Points than needed due to the player's plumbing of the character, so revising her as a DNPC to be as powerful as Valiant (he's 800+ points) will just add new color to their relationship if he chooses to mentor her in superheroing.

 

[Steve]

4 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Indeed. All one can confidently say is that the Rathuliorns will have strong feelings about this. It is, after all, a matter of their religion in a society that does not seem very supportive of merely casual faith. And given Malvan ultra-science, even a small number of Malvans having strong feelings about you can make your life, um, interesting.

 

I wouldn't expect all Rathuliorns to feel the same way, either. Some might hate the new super in the belief she somehow "stole" divine power meant for Malvans alone. Others might want to revere her as a priestess, or even a prophet. Some members might even want to kidnap humans and throw them into the Furnace to see if this happens again. How far you go with this doctrinal infighting depends on how important you want this as a subplot for your campaign.

 

If you want to make this important enough to develop Rathuliorn further, an easy way is to model it on Zoroastrian/Mazdean religion. Read the Wikipedia article, change some names and otherwise file off the serial numbers, and your players will probably never know the difference.

 

(Or don't file off the serial numbers, go von Daniken, and say that ancient Persian fire worship is the result of Malvan influence. Hm, what was a Malvan doing on Earth thousands of years ago?)

 

As a start, Zoroastrian doctrine details at least five kinds of fire: In addition to ordinary fire there are the ritual fire of the temple, the inner fire of people andanimals, the fire of lightning, and the divine fire that burns in the presence of the supreme god, Ahura Mazda. The next six most important divine beings are the Amesha Spentas (I am horribly simplifying all this): Vohu Manah ("Good Spirit"), who instils the presence of God in the righteous and conveys them to Paradise after death; Asha ("Right"), spirit of fire and guarantor of cosmic and moral order; Kshathra ("Power"), spirit of war and metals who protects the righteous; Spenta Armati, patroness of the Earth; Haurvetate, spirit of water, prosperity and healing; and Ameretat, spirit of plants ande immortality. Possible inspiration for other power-sets the Furnacew might grant?

 

Dean Shomshak

 

This is cool. I did read about the cult, but this gives me much more to work with. I was thinking that Firewing would be the only one who would really care, given the typical Malvan boredom with existence, but having a cult of Malvans as a Hunted yields all kinds of dramatic possibilities.

 

My current plan is to have her dress and maybe act a bit like Phoenix of the X-Men, although not nearly as powerful (somewhere in the 800-1000 point range since the PCs are 800+ now).

[Steve]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you go by the official lore of Malva, "sacredness" is where the potential complication lies. Per Champions Beyond pp. 99 and 108, the Furnace of the First Ones is the focus of the ancient Malvan religion of Rathuliorn, "a monotheistic religion with messianic and fire-worship elements that considers Firewing a divine being." Most modern Malvans consider religion a quaint superstition, but a small sect of Rathuliorns still exist on Malva, worshiping at the Grand Temple, where an order of Malvan priests conduct elaborate ceremonies and tend the Furnace.

 

From what we know of Malva, I doubt most Malvans would care if a human walked through the Furnace of the First Ones. But the reaction of the Rathuliorns is hard to predict. It's almost certain they would never allow a human even within the Great Temple if they had any say in it. But if a human actually entered the Furnace, and not only survived but was empowered, would that be viewed as blasphemous, or a sign of divine favor? That's uncharted territory, so I'd say you should choose whichever works best for your story.

 

A few things to keep in mind: Per Firewing's origin (most recently in CV Vol. 3) the legends of the Furnace state that it "burns away" weakness and imperfection. Per the statement of the Wisdom Stones, all others who tried to fulfill the prophecy of the Firewing perished. Ariax Thone experienced great pain when he entered the Furnace. However, he possessed "minor fire powers" even before then, which may have helped protect him; and that similarity may be why the Furnace granted him the powers it did.

 

Also, p. 102 of Champions Beyond, describing the Malvan/Elder Worm war, notes that the Malvans fielded a cadre of elite warriors called the Golden Hunters, granted super-powers through Malvan science. Yet "the most powerful of all were the Starwings, who'd walked into the Furnace of the First Ones and been granted superpowers even greater than those given to other Hunters through Malvan ultra-science." Implicitly, being empowered by the Furnace isn't a once-in-an-eon event, although it's likely that only a fraction of volunteers who walked into the Furnace survived. The precise powers of the Starwings aren't described, but the similarity of their name to Firewing's suggest thematic similarities. Also implicitly, the prophecy of the Firewing post-dates the Elder Worm war.

 

Yes, I was expecting most Malvans to just wave a lazy hand at hearing about it and not really caring much.

 

I could imagine a schism in the Rathuliorn sect, with some thinking it blasphemy and others thinking it divine favor.

 

This might awaken Malva a bit from its slumbers.

 

Thank you for pointing out about the Starwings. I missed that in my readings.

[Durzan Malakim]

<comic-book-store-nerd>Actually, Valiant is at 725 points. It's his multiforms Dread and Beacon that are at 825 points.</comic-book-store-nerd>

 

It appears that all the women in Valiant's life will have more points than he does, but he's already got lots of experience being a damsel in distress. My team mates seem to be rescuing Valiant every other episode. Maybe Valiant can be Casey's DNPC now.

[clnicholsusa]

The DNPC could go through the furnace and NOT come out with extensive power. If it burns away weakness and imperfection, the DNPC might step out the other side with perfect beauty, grace, and greater mental capacity than any other human in the galaxy (burning away weakness) but also be perfectly insubstantial and no more solid than the light from a nearby star.

That would bring a whole new sort of plot to the story arc.

[Steve]

Since humans are tainted by Elder Worm DNA in the CU, would that be considered an imperfection to be purged away?

 

Come to think of it, could Elder Worm DNA be one of the contributors to superhuman empowerment in humans?

[Grailknight]

Yes and yes, Whichever you can make the best story for.

[Lord Liaden]

OTOH given the antipathy between the Malvans and the Elder Worm, and the taint of Qliphothic magic the latter carry, the interaction of that with the Furnace could be an excuse for a variety of interesting phenomena, from reduced power level, to unreliable powers or detrimental side effects, to Psychological or Physical Limitations. None of that would need to manifest immediately.

[Matt the Bruins]

I've got some inspiration to suggest for her look if you go the "like Firewing" route: https://www.popsugar.com/fashion/photo-gallery/23202769/image/23202789/Tilda-Swinton-Candy-Magazine

[Steve]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

OTOH given the antipathy between the Malvans and the Elder Worm, and the taint of Qliphothic magic the latter carry, the interaction of that with the Furnace could be an excuse for a variety of interesting phenomena, from reduced power level, to unreliable powers or detrimental side effects, to Psychological or Physical Limitations. None of that would need to manifest immediately.

 

Yes, seeds of the Dark Phoenix, one could say.

[Lord Liaden]

On 8/14/2018 at 3:19 PM, DShomshak said:

If you want to make this important enough to develop Rathuliorn further, an easy way is to model it on Zoroastrian/Mazdean religion. Read the Wikipedia article, change some names and otherwise file off the serial numbers, and your players will probably never know the difference.

 

(Or don't file off the serial numbers, go von Daniken, and say that ancient Persian fire worship is the result of Malvan influence. Hm, what was a Malvan doing on Earth thousands of years ago?)

 

Following the trail of the Elder Worm to Earth, perhaps? Of course the Slug and his followers were safely hidden in suspended animation at that time; and the Malvan empire was already far in decline, well past its conquering expansionist phase (luckily for us). But if you wanted a Malvan influence on Persian religion, you could also say that vague memories of the tale of the Malvan/Worm war could have inspired the concept of the duality of good and evil, and ongoing conflict between them, that's a major feature of Zoroastrianism.

[Ninja-Bear]

Perhaps the Ancient Malian was a Police Officiwr that crash landed on earth? ?