New Power: Quasi Solid

[Duke Bushido]

Protean!  I remember that!  And yeah; that would have been about perfect for this.

 

I actually came back to scrape up something I had posted-- a suggested House Rule for using success on the hit roll to "walk" your hit location closer to a target location.  The drive my copy was saved on got corrupted and I remembered I had posted it here some years ago.  It, too, is gone.  Oh well; I'm pretty sure I remember it enough to re-write it.  We don't generally use hit locations, mind you, but I do like to hang on to neat ideas.

 

[Duke Bushido]

Oh, by the way, Chris:

I _told_ you I like to hang onto interesting ideas.

 

Guess who has a copy of this little neat tidbit hanging around his hard-drive?

 

 

Protean Form  [ Standard Power, Constant, Self-Only ]
The characters body can be changed or distorted to squeeze through openings.
It does not allow the character to change his appearance,
nor does it give any extra reach (see Shape Shift and Stretching).
Likewise, while in this form, they can travel at thier normal movement rate.
They can attack and be attacked while in this form.

Protean Form Cost - 20 Points. 

Modifiers

Viscosity (-1/2), +1 Phase (-1/4)
This limitation reflects that additional time required to move through smaller and smaller openings.
The opening size is relative to the character's height.
For a -1/2 limitation and additional phase is required to travel through
and opening 1/4 the character's height.
You can increase the time required for travel by an additional +1 Phase per -1/4 Limitation.

[Opening Size]	(Extra Travel Time)	{Sample Opening Size: 2m Height}
Viscosity	[1/500]		(+8 Phases)		{4 mm}
Viscosity	[1/250]		(+7 Phases)		{8 mm}
Viscosity	[1/125]		(+6 Phases)		{16 mm}
Viscosity	[1/64]		(+5 Phases)		{32 mm}
Viscosity	[1/32]		(+4 Phases)		{64 mm}
Viscosity	[1/16]		(+3 Phases)		{125 mm}
Viscosity	[1/8]		(+2 Phases)		{25 cm}
Viscosity	[1/4]		(+1 Phase)		{50 cm}

Example: Sandman can sift through grates and pipes, but it takes longer for him to do so.
The smaller the opening is, the longer it takes.
Sandman is 2 Meters tall normally.
With this limitation, he could sift through an opening that is 1/4 his height in diameter (50 cm),
but it would take an extra phase to do so.
If the opening is 1/8 his height in diameter (25 cm), then it would take 2 extra phases to flow through it.
For a -3/4 Limitation a 1/4 diameter (50 cm) opening would require
the Sandman 2 addtional phases to travel through it.

Viscosity Limit (Varies)
The smallest opening that a character is able to travel through.
Openings smaller than this limit can not be traveled through.
The opening size is relative to the characters height.

	[Opening Size]	(Limitation Value)	{Sample Opening Size: 2m Height}
Viscosity Limit	[1/500]		(-1/4)			{4 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/250]		(-1/2)			{8 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/125]		(-3/4)			{16 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/64]		(-1)			{32 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/32]		(-1 1/4)			{64 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/16]		(-1 1/2)			{125 mm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/8]		(-1 3/4)			{25 cm}
Viscosity Limit	[1/4]		(-2)			{50 cm}

Example: Elasticman can squeeze through large cracks and pipes,
but can't squeeze through a screen door or tiny openings.
Elasticman is 2 Meters tall normally.
With a -3/4 limitation, he could squeeze through openings as small as  1/125 his height (16 mm),
but wouldn't be able to squeeze through any opening smaller than 16mm.
Mr Double-Jointed has Viscosity Limit as a -2 Limitation.
He can crawl through air ducts
that most normal men couldn't fit into.
Mr Double-Jointed could add Vicosity in addition to Viscosity Limit
to simulate that it takes him longer to travel through air ducts than when he walks or runs normally.

 

 

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

 

[schir1964]

Rats!!

I'm going to have to come back to this and try to recreate my Protean power.

 

Duke Bushido, I'm going to steal your term porosity because it's a perfect term for the defintion. (8^D).

 

Be back tomorrow.

[schir1964]

No Way!!!

 

That's incredible. Thanks.

[Duke Bushido]

Must have mis-timed that post.

 

You don't have to recreate it.  I actually had a copy just eating up electrons in my hard drive on my other computer.  Took a minute to e-mail it to myself and get it up.

[Duke Bushido]

Not at all, Sir.

 

It's rare I get to contribute in any meaningful way around here.  Feels nice to help.

 

[EDIT:  Oh, and it's just "Duke."  I wasn't smart enough to go with a full pseudonym when I first joined.    And of course, thank _you_; if it hadn't been an interesting idea with appeal to me, I wouldn't have kept it to give it back now. ]

[schir1964]

Looks like I will be back tomorrow. I need to make some updates to this power. (8^D)

[Duke Bushido]

Good!  Because I had some questions for you. Most importantly:

 

How do you treat "hole size" versus "available holes."  For example, a character who requires say "1/4 of his size" as a passage.  Does there have to be a single hole that large, or can he, say, ooze through a chain link fence by utilizing several "holes" all at one time?

 

[EDIT: I'll take that answer at a later time; I have to get up and stop doing things. ]

 

[schir1964]

In order to keep the information close together...

 

That's an interesting point. After thinking about it and debating in my head. I think that limit is to reflect those characters that can't flow through/around openings due to nature of the SFX (Elastic Man, Mister Fantastic).

So this is the minimum size for a single opening. This limit wouldn't be appropriate to other types of SFX (Terminator 2, The Blob, Sandman). This measurement is considered diameter (width and height minimum).

[Hugh Neilson]

That still leaves the question of how long it takes, saw, Sandman to pass through a chain link fence as opposed to a single pipe with the diameter of one hole/gap in that fence.  Perhaps that is a reducer to the time limitation - Stretchy he Rubber Man can only pass through one space, so needs extra time to get through that chain link fence, but HydroWoman isn't eve slowed down as she can flow through 90% of the area of the fence at once.

[Doc Democracy]

11 hours ago, schir1964 said:

No Way!!!

 

That's incredible. Thanks.

 

Just in case you are interested - that power was posted in this thread....

 

[schir1964]

Protean [ Standard Power, Constant, Self-Only ]
This power allows the character to move through porous barriers that would otherwise block them from passing (fences, pipes, wire screening).
The character may pass through the barrier as if no barrier existed at their normal movement rate.
Tunneling and Teleport are not applicable with this power

Cost: 20 Points

Modifiers

Viscosity (-1/2), +1 Phase (-1/4)
The character can still move through barriers but requires additional time depending on the porosity of the barrier.
You can increase the time required for travel by an additional +1 Phase per -1/4 Limitation.
The barriers porosity is relative to the character's height.

Viscosity Chart
Porosity  Extra Time  Example Porosity (Based On 2m Height)
--------  ----------  -------------------------------------
1/500     +8 Phases   4 mm
1/250     +7 Phases   8 mm
1/125     +6 Phases   16 mm
1/64      +5 Phases   32 mm
1/32      +4 Phases   64 mm
1/16      +3 Phases   125 mm
1/8       +2 Phases   25 cm
1/4       +1 Phase    50 cm

No Split (x2 Modifier/Phase) The Character may not split their body to bypass barriers (SFX Limitation) which doubles the amount of time. 


Minimum Porosity (Varies)
The character may only bypass barriers with at least one opening/passage of a certain size or larger (Porosity).
The shape of the opening is presumed to be Diameter but the player may specify the shape of the opening with GM approval.

Porosity Chart
Porosity  Limitation  Example Porosity (Based on 2m Height)
--------  ----------  -------------------------------------
1/125+    -0          1 mm - 15 mm          
1/125     -1/4        16 mm
1/64      -1/2        32 mm
1/32      -3/4        64 mm
1/16      -1          125 mm
1/8       -1 1/4      25 cm
1/4       -1 1/2      50 cm

No Split (x2 Modifier) The Character may not split their body to bypass barriers (SFX Limitation).


Reduced Movement (Varies)
The character's movement rate is reduced when this power is active.

Reduction Chart
-1/4 Movement Rate Halved
-1/2 Movement Rate Quartered
-1   Reduced to 1" Movement Rate


- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

I have no idea if this is correct cost wise or otherwise.

[Duke Bushido]

10 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

Just in case you are interested - that power was posted in this thread....

 

 

Oh yeah---

 

I had forgotten about your super power to find old threads long after the rest of us have given up crying.

 

Well done!

 

Don't suppose you can find the one I did on walking hit locations, can ya?  'Cause I sure can't.  

 

C'mon, Chris:

 

You've got a start.  Details, my friend!  Details!

 

How would you use this power to simulate what started this thread: the ability to ooze through extremely permeable barriers like fences, screen doors, and locked turnstiles?

 

 

[schir1964]

3 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

C'mon, Chris:

 

You've got a start.  Details, my friend!  Details!

 

How would you use this power to simulate what started this thread: the ability to ooze through extremely permeable barriers like fences, screen doors, and locked turnstiles?

 

 

 

Oh, you want example builds. Okay, give me a bit. I need to put the twins to bed. (8^D)

[Duke Bushido]

It's all good, amigo.  I've got to put _me_ to bed.

 

I didn't mean to come off pushy; I was...  inciting creativity!

 

No.  That other word.

 

Encouraging!  That was it!  (Thanks, Wife!)

 

 

[schir1964]

I didn't get a lot from the original post on SFX but I'll do the best I can.

 

Wind Warrior

--------------------

Can turn into a column of air.

 

Protean: 20 AP / 20 Points

 

 

Oozing Man

-------------------

Ducts, Medium Pipes, and Prison Bars won't stop him.

 

Protean: 20 AP / 6 Points

• Minimum Porosity (-1)             125 mm
• Reduced Movement (-1 1/4)   1" Running while oozing

 

 

Solabon (from Star Trek: Enterprise)

---------------------------------------------------------

The can squeeze through just about anything.

 

Protean: 20 AP / 8 Points

• Minimum Porosity/No Split (-0)  4mm
• Reduced Movement (-1 1/4)       1" Running while squeezing.

 

 

T-1000 Terminator

-----------------------------

Liquid metal.

 

Protean: 20 AP / 7 Points

• Viscosity (-1/2)                          +1 Phase per Porosity Level
• Minimum Porosity (-0)             4mm
• Reduced Movement (-1 1/2)   1" Running/Climbing while bypassing obstacles.

 

 

Rubber Man

-------------------

Give him time and he will get there.

 

Protean: 20 AP / 4 Points

• Minimum Porosity/No Split (-1)            32mm
• Reduced Movement/No Split (-2 1/2)  1" Running while squeezing.

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

Ah; I see.  So it's more about how pliable their physical form is, or rather, more in terms of "how tiny a bit of me can squeeze through" or "how narrow a cross section can I form without actually hurting myself" than it is about passing through / around small barriers, like the bars in a window (passing through all the openings at one, as it were).  

 

Am I reading that correctly?

 

[schir1964]

20 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Ah; I see.  So it's more about how pliable their physical form is, or rather, more in terms of "how tiny a bit of me can squeeze through" or "how narrow a cross section can I form without actually hurting myself" than it is about passing through / around small barriers, like the bars in a window (passing through all the openings at one, as it were).  

 

Am I reading that correctly?

 

 

Yes, the SFX are driving the barrier/movement part of this. My last example allows the character to flow through screens (through one tiny hole or all of them) just as a column of air would do.

I'm still trying to get a handle on the cost vs benefit of this so it's not feel free to change it or suggest a fix.

 

Are there any other movement types I missed?

[Doc Democracy]

7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Don't suppose you can find the one I did on walking hit locations, can ya?  'Cause I sure can't.  

 

I dont think this is the one you are looking for, but I will have a better look over the weekend...

 

  

[Duke Bushido]

Actually, that was _exactly_ the one. 

 

How the heck do you do that?! 

[Hugh Neilson]

I like the concept, so let’s take a deeper look at the costing.

 

First off, why should this apply to a specific movement type?  If I can turn into sand, I should be able to flow through barriers, regardless of movement type.  Removing that link also removes the question of whether limitations also reduce the cost of the movement power itself.

 

Base Cost:  Given 40 points lets me go Desolid, move through any barrier and be immune to damage (albeit at the cost of losing the ability to affect the solid world), 40 points only to pass through fewer barriers than Desolid would allow seems substantially overpriced. 

 

I am a bit biased as I have always felt “Does not protect from attacks” on Desolid should remove the inability to interact with the solid world automatically.  Desolid,  does not protect against damage (-1), cannot pass through solid objects (-1/2) would then cost 16 points by RAW.  Tack on half END and it would cost 20.  If we set the base price of Protean at 20, it does the same thing at the same END cost.  That seems like a reasonable starting point.

 

No Split: What does that mean?  On the base power, the power lets the character pass through the tiniest of openings unimpeded, so whether there is one opening or many seems to make no difference.  This only seems like an issue if the character also has or viscosity limitation.  If he does, it seems much more limiting than -1/4.  Maybe it should increase the value of those limitations.  On their base, those limitations should consider total gap on a standard character body size.  Addressed under those limitations.

 

Viscosity:  My first thought was “can I lower the penalty by 1 phase if I reduce the limitation?  But why do we need this limitation at all when we could simply apply Extra Time to the situations where time will be increased?  That one will be complex to math out if it scales based on the size of the openings, but Extra Time should reasonably form the baseline.  Maybe Extra Time is taken at full value, but reduced one time increment for each stage on the Porosity chart before the first delay kicks in, or reduced two time increments if the character can split.

 

Porosity:  The description needs to start with what a normal human could squeeze through.  He could squeeze through smaller spaces with Contortionist.  50 cm at minimal speed, (1 meter) without penalty seems reasonable (50 cm being about shoulder width, the most significant constraint) then a big limitation for only being able to move full speed through 50 cm seems reasonable.  But he already has the ability to split, which is big.  Losing the ability to split should increase the limitation considerably.

 

I’d say the power is highly limited if it just allows him to bypass 50 cm, no split, barriers at full speed instead of squeezing through, so that should be -2.  What if 50 cm were -1, and “cannot split” doubled the porosity limitation?

 

There should be no limitation only where there is no restriction to the size of the openings (if water or air can get through, so can he).  So I will suggest that 1 mm or less is -1/4, at least 50 mm is -1/2 and at least 5 cm is -3/4, at least 50 cm is -1, and all are doubled for “cannot split”, which means we count only one opening instead of the effective “open to blocked” ratio.

 

Reduced Movement:  seems like this is a limitation which should be applied to the movement (e.g. the character can fly at 50 meters, but only 2 meters through barriers, so he should buy Protean normally, and Limit 45 meters of Flight, probably a pretty minor limitation (-1/4 is my gut feel). 

Guaranteed I am missing something - thoughts?

[Doc Democracy]

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Actually, that was _exactly_ the one. 

 

How the heck do you do that?! 

 

It really is simply putting the right terms into Google.  Sometimes you take a punt on terms you think will throw up the right hits on the first page or two.  I guess my punts are decent. ?

[schir1964]

First off, why should this apply to a specific movement type?  If I can turn into sand, I should be able to flow through barriers, regardless of movement type.  Removing that link also removes the question of whether limitations also reduce the cost of the movement power itself.

 

This was part of trying to balance things out cost/benefit but I don't have my books available so I going off of memory. I forgot how much Desolid cost. However, I've always thought Desolid (isn't it a stop or warning power?) was underpriced (when simply used for movement and nothing else) since it basically gives you immunity to your average attack while moving through things. But that's just me. If we use as basis (presuming it's not underpriced) then yes it seems off. I originally had it affect all movement powers by default. Going back to that is no problem really, just a matter of cost vs benefit which as you know am not the best at evaluating.

 

Base Cost:  Given 40 points lets me go Desolid, move through any barrier and be immune to damage (albeit at the cost of losing the ability to affect the solid world), 40 points only to pass through fewer barriers than Desolid would allow seems substantially overpriced. 

I am a bit biased as I have always felt “Does not protect from attacks” on Desolid should remove the inability to interact with the solid world automatically.  Desolid,  does not protect against damage (-1), cannot pass through solid objects (-1/2) would then cost 16 points by RAW.  Tack on half END and it would cost 20.  If we set the base price of Protean at 20, it does the same thing at the same END cost.  That seems like a reasonable starting point.

 

Funny, that's where I originally started from (probably due the whole Desolid comparison thing). No problem with playing around with the base cost or anything else for that matter.

 

No Split: What does that mean?  On the base power, the power lets the character pass through the tiniest of openings unimpeded, so whether there is one opening or many seems to make no difference.  This only seems like an issue if the character also has or viscosity limitation.  If he does, it seems much more limiting than -1/4.  Maybe it should increase the value of those limitations.  On their base, those limitations should consider total gap on a standard character body size.  Addressed under those limitations.

 

As soon as I started reading this question I immediately thought it should be modifier to those other limitations and yes it is too small I think: 1/2, 3/4 limitation?

 

Viscosity:  My first thought was “can I lower the penalty by 1 phase if I reduce the limitation?  But why do we need this limitation at all when we could simply apply Extra Time to the situations where time will be increased?  That one will be complex to math out if it scales based on the size of the openings, but Extra Time should reasonably form the baseline.  Maybe Extra Time is taken at full value, but reduced one time increment for each stage on the Porosity chart before the first delay kicks in, or reduced two time increments if the character can split.

 

I based the limitation value and phase based on the first level of Porosity (1/4 the character height or 50 cm for Humans). The idea is simply allow for the concept of the smaller the opening the longer it takes to move through. I didn't want to use the base Extra Time since it scales up too quickly and would make going through smaller openings pretty useless with just a few levels even with your modifications. I wanted a more linear progression in the amount of time required. But I don't have my books available so I could be wrong.

 

Porosity:  The description needs to start with what a normal human could squeeze through.  He could squeeze through smaller spaces with Contortionist.  50 cm at minimal speed, (1 meter) without penalty seems reasonable (50 cm being about shoulder width, the most significant constraint) then a big limitation for only being able to move full speed through 50 cm seems reasonable.  But he already has the ability to split, which is big.  Losing the ability to split should increase the limitation considerably.

I’d say the power is highly limited if it just allows him to bypass 50 cm, no split, barriers at full speed instead of squeezing through, so that should be -2.  What if 50 cm were -1, and “cannot split” doubled the porosity limitation?

 

Yes, I would agree with your analysis. The rest is simply examples or how the chart is presented. I'll have to play around with numbers to see what makes sense.

 

He could squeeze through smaller spaces with Contortionist.  50 cm at minimal speed, (1 meter) without penalty seems reasonable (50 cm being about shoulder width, the most significant constraint).

 

I wanted to add something to this. The human would also be considered prone so would be extra vulnerable to attacks and would require an extra phase to stand up before using their movement at full capacity again.

 

There should be no limitation only where there is no restriction to the size of the openings (if water or air can get through, so can he).  So I will suggest that 1 mm or less is -1/4, at least 50 mm is -1/2 and at least 5 cm is -3/4, at least 50 cm is -1, and all are doubled for “cannot split”, which means we count only one opening instead of the effective “open to blocked” ratio.

 

The -0 limitation is simply giving the player an option that would describe a self imposed restriction but has no bearing on the effectiveness of the power as a whole. I was thinking that 1mm would be the absolute smallest opening that this power would allow you bypass barriers. Beyond that I think it starts overlapping the Desolid power, but that can be a GM determined thing.

 

Reduced Movement:  seems like this is a limitation which should be applied to the movement (e.g. the character can fly at 50 meters, but only 2 meters through barriers, so he should buy Protean normally, and Limit 45 meters of Flight, probably a pretty minor limitation (-1/4 is my gut feel). 

 

Well, using the same logic you presented above for the base power and movement types, any reduction in movement should automatically affect all movement types for this power. I shy away from having one power force the player to place limitations on other powers. It would be like an Clinging having options that force you place limitations on other powers in order to have the option. The best argument against this is that the Reduction is tied directly to the Protean power. If you aren't using the Protean power then movement powers are unaffected. Perhaps some form of linked would make more sense but I'm not seeing it.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

[Duke Bushido]

8 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

It really is simply putting the right terms into Google.  Sometimes you take a punt on terms you think will throw up the right hits on the first page or two.  I guess my punts are decent. ?

 

Better than most, I would thnk.