A Knockdown/Knock Prone Adder?

[Territan]

Is there any sort of Adder or Advantage that one can add to a power to cause an knockdown / knock prone in combat? The player's request is that it could force a DEX check to stay standing, or work automatically. But is there some power add-on (or maybe a Power, like Change Environment?) that can cause that kind of pressure and difficulty to stay standing?

[Greywind]

Martial Arts has the option of "Target Falls".

[Daniel Pennington]

In 6E there are the advantages Does Knockback and Double Knockback. Plus as Greywind said there are various martial arts maneuvers that do the knock down (leg sweep for example)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Daniel Pennington

[Beast]

Trip field:  Change Environment (-5 to Characteristic Roll or Skill Roll, Stunning), Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2) (67 Active Points)

[Beast]

any attack that does KB requires a dex roll to remain standing

 

[dsatow]

Isn't this more of a hero system discussion rather than a champions genre discussion?

[Duke Bushido]

Not really.  Knock back doesn't come up very often in most other genres; it's way less appropriate for most things that aren't superheroes or Bombs. 

 

[Tech]

On 9/13/2018 at 9:03 PM, Beast said:

any attack that does KB requires a dex roll to remain standing

 

 

Perhaps I've always ignored this but where is this stated?

[dsatow]

16 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Not really.  Knock back doesn't come up very often in most other genres; it's way less appropriate for most things that aren't superheroes or Bombs. 

 

 

That's not what I am meaning, its a question of "Is there a rule to force knockdown/knockback in a build?".  The response has been, "sort of" (you can use the Does Knockback advantage, the Double Knockback advantage, martial arts or build a power to put people on the ground).  So, neither the question nor the answers really stated anything to do with a Champions game directly except for your comment.  The OP may get just as good an answer here (since most people read more than one forum) but they may get a better level of response in the the HERO System Discussion forum.

[dsatow]

15 hours ago, Tech said:

 

Perhaps I've always ignored this but where is this stated?

 

Its an optional rule for Knockdown 6e2p112.

Quote

KNOCKDOWN
Weapons, especially big ones, can knock people
down; so can powerful attacks of just about any
kind. This is simulated by Knockdown, an optional
rule used with the Hit Location Table. Whenever
a character takes an Impairing wound, he must
retreat 2m and make a DEX Roll. If he fails the
roll, he falls down. Whenever he takes a Disabling
wound, he’s automatically Knocked Down, and
falls back 1m for every 1 BODY rolled on the
dice over the character’s starting BODY (i.e., the
amount of BODY he has when fully healed, such
as 10 BODY for a normal human).

 

[Territan]

On 9/16/2018 at 12:41 AM, dsatow said:

Isn't this more of a hero system discussion rather than a champions genre discussion?

I did consider posting it as a Hero System rules question. But then, Steven Long would have been the only one who could answer it.

 

Also, this is specifically about a Champions power build. This isn't so much about what the rules say as how the rules can be massaged to get the desired effect—less technical, more artistic. I figured I'd find the most creative interpretations around here.

[eepjr24]

I always guide players toward Change Environment for builds that look to force a characteristic check or result in some action. Dex check for falling is one of the common ones for frictionless fields, icy spells, oil slicks, etc. Then they can also control how difficult it is to resist and others can buy specific defenses in many cases (sure footing on ice, unaffacted by oil based lubricants, etc) as environmental movements.

[Ninja-Bear]

Territan if you want automatic knockdown then I would buy flight with position shift with  UAA. 

[Greywind]

10 hours ago, Territan said:

I did consider posting it as a Hero System rules question. But then, Steven Long would have been the only one who could answer it.

 

Hero System discussion forum; right under Steve's rules question forum.

[Territan]

19 hours ago, Greywind said:

 

Hero System discussion forum; right under Steve's rules question forum.

 

Oh. @doh

[Ninja-Bear]

32 minutes ago, Territan said:

 

Oh. @doh

It’s not a biggie though.

[dsatow]

5 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

It’s not a biggie though.

 

Agreed, I tried not to make the response harsh and I don't know if I succeeded.  I just wanted to help the OP get the best possible response and as I noted before, I believe at least 90% of the people who read the Hero System discussion forum read this one too.

[Ninja-Bear]

Dsatow I don’t believe your response was harsh at all. 

[Duke Bushido]

22 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Dsatow I don’t believe your response was harsh at all. 

For what it's worth, it was directed at me, and I didn't find it remotely offensive.

 

I also offer a sincere apology: had I realized that you had already pre-selected an answer, I would not have provided one.

 

 

[Beast]

On 9/16/2018 at 8:30 AM, Tech said:

 

Perhaps I've always ignored this but where is this stated?

Pg 158 Champions Complete

[Asperion]

If the intended effect is only to cause KB, then I would say to buy an attack as normal with the lim "only to cause KB (-1\4).  The reason that I gave it such a low value is that most attacks do KB in addition to the damage.  All that this lim is doing is removing the damage component.  The KB can be further modified by the mods mods mentioned in other posts.

[Duke Bushido]

Considering some of the surprisingly deep discounts and nearly double-dipping in some of the published character's Limitations, I would think "only to cause KB" would be worth at least -1/2.  I mean, ignoring the fact that you may be throwing away Stunning after Stunning or early subduing, an Attack action, by the rules, ends your Phase.  You are essentially throwing away an opportunity to CON Stun, or to simply knock some sense into them, or even hurt them enough to make them re-think themselves, just to knock them down.

 

Sure; being knocked down is a disadvantage for them on their next Phase, but it seems like a greater sacrifice than -1/4.

 

 

[eepjr24]

1 hour ago, Asperion said:

If the intended effect is only to cause KB, then I would say to buy an attack as normal with the lim "only to cause KB (-1\4).  The reason that I gave it such a low value is that most attacks do KB in addition to the damage.  All that this lim is doing is removing the damage component.  The KB can be further modified by the mods mods mentioned in other posts.

So all this lim is doing is removing the primary purpose of the attack: to directly cause damage. For me, that would be at least a Very Common (character is limited about half the time) (-1). You still have some chance at damage through either contact with a surface during the KB or falling off something tall, but those are much rarer situations. You lose most chance of: CON Stun, inflicting BODY, and knocking out. Would also greatly limit use of the power in PRE attacks. 

 

- E

[Hugh Neilson]

12 hours ago, Asperion said:

If the intended effect is only to cause KB, then I would say to buy an attack as normal with the lim "only to cause KB (-1\4).  The reason that I gave it such a low value is that most attacks do KB in addition to the damage.  All that this lim is doing is removing the damage component.  The KB can be further modified by the mods mods mentioned in other posts.

I wuld suggest this removes most of the powr's utility.  In my view, if "only to do this" is a -1/4 limitation, then "not to do this" should be at least -2.

 

"Only to do knockback" and "does not do knockback" versions of the same power should cost, in total, the same (or approximately the same) as having the base, unlimited power.

[dsatow]

Just as a side note, in my group, you can always aim knockback downard instead of away from you.  This started a long time ago in a very high powered campaign where even a martial strike would do a minimum of 6" on the average and bricks (in the days of 1.5x haymakers) would send targets about 35" away.