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Healing...self only?


unclevlad
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The power set I'm building...the character can convert his body into fibers...including Kevlar and carbon fiber, and even stuff like carbon nanotubes.  Nothing metallic but that still leaves a WHOLE lot to play with.  So I'm tossing in stuff like stretching, armor, and extra limbs with no fine manipulation.  He's also got a major Transform to create stuff.

 

So...an implication of this is he can heal himself.  BODY only, clearly.  But there's 2 limitations:

 

1.  Self only.  

2.  Only wounds, or the byproducts thereof (like bleeding if used).  Doesn't apply to drains, damage from toxins, and the like.  Basically, it's re-knitting ripped tissues, blood vessels, etc.

 

There's a Self Only for Aid...but not on Healing, surprisingly.  I'm figuring -1 for that.  For the wounds only...I'm thinking -1/2 at most, and even only -1/4 might make sense.  It's not that likely to make a big difference;  a -1.25 total limit means the' power costs 44% of active, whereas a -1.5 drops it down to 40%.  So likely only a couple points at most.  

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You might try Regeneration instead. I also like to add a small amount of armor or just damage resistance (probably under "resistant defenses" or something like that in 6th, not that familiar with 6th) as well, with the special effect of instant regeneration of smaller wounds.

 

This probably won't handle Bleeding, so you might want to check that, or check with your GM if the bleeding rules are going to be used in the campaign.

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4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

No, I don't want Regen.  This is something he has to actively focus on doing, it doesn't happen automatically.  

 

Something he has to actively focus on doing:  (Total: 53 Active Cost, 30 Real Cost) Regeneration (3 BODY per Turn), Can Heal Limbs (53 Active Points); Does Not Work On Some Damage ([Rare attack]; -1/4), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 30)

 

How to build it depends on exactly what you mean by "actively focus on it." The Nonpersistant Limitation keeps it from happening when unconscious, and "active focus" might be interpreted in a number of ways; as for example Costs END. You would also use Concentration or maybe Extra TIme. Or this,

 

Something he has to actively focus on doing:  (Total: 53 Active Cost, 30 Real Cost) Regeneration (3 BODY per Turn), Can Heal Limbs (53 Active Points); Does Not Work On Some Damage ([Rare attack]; -1/4), Nonpersistent (-1/4), 64 clips of 1 Charge (-1/4) (Real Cost: 30)

 

Charges with "clips" means that for each use, it's necessary to spend a full phase (or half phase with a Fastdraw roll) to "change clips" i.e. in this case to "actively focus" on the ability.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says we hope 64 uses of a 3 pt Regeneration is enough for anyone......

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How much BOD can he heal in a given time period?  Regeneration does not have a cap.  Healing does.

 

I'll assume he has a SPD of 4 for the sake of illustration.  He should be able to heal 20 BOD per turn, 5 per phase.  That means he needs to be able to roll an average of 10 CP (1 CP per BOD, doubled as it is defensive).  That's 3d6 for an average of 11, or 4d6 for an average of 14, to be pretty confident of 5+ per action.  4d6, standard effect, would be 6 per action.  3 1/2 d6, standard effect, would be 5 BOD per action, so let's go with that.  That's 35 AP.

 

But he also needs to heal another 5 next phase - can't do that with standard effect, and a second roll will only heal to the extent it's higher than the first.

 

So he needs another 9d6 Standard Effect, only to increase the maximum healing per re-use.

 

And those dice all need reduced re-use down to 1 turn, a +1 1/2 advantage.

 

I think I would use the APG rules for 5 BOD per phase regen, and apply limitations to make the healing require attack actions, if that's the effect you want.  Frankly, healing 5 BOD per phase is a nice deal, but in a Supers game, death is pretty uncommon.  Making it a 350 AP power that costs 35 END (or 420 AP to cost 0 END) doesn't feel quite right.

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I think Lucius's basic idea of Regen might be the best option. If this character has such great control over his body, we could probably reasonably say he is constantly doing truly minor repairs on it at most waking hours - even if it is just a matter of repairing things as he stretches and contracts to walk or grab something. To this extent perhaps a 4 pt 1/day Regen would be appropriate. You could tack on the limitations regarding type of damaged healed and that it is non-persistent in the instances that the character is incapacitated for a whole day. 

Next, to better achieve your "concentrated effort to heal" goal, I would build an AID to REGEN that has the fixed effect of bumping down the time-table to 1/turn. That would be a difference of 12 active points or a reliable 4d6 roll. All aid points above the 1/turn rate could go into boosting the value per turn to 2 or 3. I am not sure what the point values your game will be using or mechanical builds (MPs, etc) allowed, but it wouldn't be the hardest thing to get an 8d6 aid in an MP with various limitations (concentration, self-only, etc). This would allow the character to have a general ability to heal that he could also actively concentrate on to make semi-combat effective (1 or 2 BODY per turn of Regen). If you don't expect this to be Combat ready, then limiting it to only AIDing up to the 20 minute or 1 hour scale would be cheaper and produce high quality results. 

La Rose. 

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11 hours ago, unclevlad said:

No, I don't want Regen.  This is something he has to actively focus on doing, it doesn't happen automatically.  

 

Maybe Regeneration using a Focus and Continuous Charges.  This would represent a medical kit with limited supplies.

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I KNOW the differences between doing it with Healing and doing it with Regen.  Yes, Healing has a cap.  That's fine.  

 

He has a particular type of control...he can reconnect everything.  That doesn't imply it's autonomous, and for this character, it's not intended to be.

 

Is there some philosophical argument that says, if you want self-heal only, you MUST use Regen?  I do not want it to have Regen's properties.  I do want it to be as if someone else Healed him...just that he's doing it to himself.  And he can't do it to anyone else.  

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What difference do you perceive between "Healing as if someone else healed him, which he cannot use to heal someone else" and Regeneration?

 

Healing with massive upgrades to allow him to consistently Heal 20 BOD per turn (25?  30?  what SPD will the character be?) will be massively expensive  far more than the utility.

 

APG Regeneration, 5 BOD per phase, requires an attack action (I would give that -3/4 as a power that would normally be constant, but requires a half phase action to maintain each phase, is -1/2) seems like it is "something he has to focus on, means it takes 1 or more actions.  It is NOT a Constant power at all" [your description]

 

Do you want it to cost END?  Add Costs END.  It will need that "some damage not recoverable" limitation either way.

 

I don't find tat philosophical any more than your apparent deep-rooted unwillingness to use a constant power with limitations which make it non-constant.

 

What is the construct above missing to match your vision of the ability?

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I think the healing power and the regen method are both good ways of doing what you seek.  The regen method could also be done with extra time each use either at the full phase or turn level(if you want it basically only to be done between combats).  The healing method also has a time draw back (once per day unless you buy down the reuse duration).  Something to consider.

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4 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

Maybe Regeneration using a Focus and Continuous Charges.  This would represent a medical kit with limited supplies.

 

That would work - for a character that has a medical kit with limited supplies.

 

That is NOT this character. Focus would not be appropriate.

 

 

17 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The power set I'm building...the character can convert his body into fibers...including Kevlar and carbon fiber, and even stuff like carbon nanotubes.  Nothing metallic but that still leaves a WHOLE lot to play with.  So I'm tossing in stuff like stretching, armor, and extra limbs with no fine manipulation.  He's also got a major Transform to create stuff.

 

So...an implication of this is he can heal himself.  BODY only, clearly.  But there's 2 limitations:

 

1.  Self only.  

2.  Only wounds, or the byproducts thereof (like bleeding if used).  Doesn't apply to drains, damage from toxins, and the like.  Basically, it's re-knitting ripped tissues, blood vessels, etc.

 

There's a Self Only for Aid...but not on Healing, surprisingly.  I'm figuring -1 for that.  For the wounds only...I'm thinking -1/2 at most, and even only -1/4 might make sense.  It's not that likely to make a big difference;  a -1.25 total limit means the' power costs 44% of active, whereas a -1.5 drops it down to 40%.  So likely only a couple points at most.  

 

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I KNOW the differences between doing it with Healing and doing it with Regen. 

 

Then can you please explain the difference to me? You seem to be seeing something that none of the rest of us are.

 

edit: TO be specific, can you explain the exact difference that makes Regeneration unsuitable, even when it has Limitations that make it act the way you seem to want this power to act?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Then again, sometimes I see a palindromedary when no one else does.

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18 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The power set I'm building...the character can convert his body into fibers...including Kevlar and carbon fiber, and even stuff like carbon nanotubes.  Nothing metallic but that still leaves a WHOLE lot to play with.  So I'm tossing in stuff like stretching, armor, and extra limbs with no fine manipulation.  He's also got a major Transform to create stuff.

 

So...an implication of this is he can heal himself.  BODY only, clearly.  But there's 2 limitations:

 

1.  Self only.  

2.  Only wounds, or the byproducts thereof (like bleeding if used).  Doesn't apply to drains, damage from toxins, and the like.  Basically, it's re-knitting ripped tissues, blood vessels, etc.

 

This sounds like Regeneration to me as well. "Non-Persistent" (-1/4) means that character needs to deliberately turn it on as a zero-phase action. Add Extra Time or Concentration if it needs more than cursory attention to function. "Wounds Only" will probably be -1/4 or -1/2, depending on how common other sorts of injuries are. (If they essentially never occur, this might be a spot for one of the, "-0" Limitations they're talking about in the other thread.) 

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Every attempt at defining it with Regen becomes a cheesy mess of limitations that are artificial, IMO, and distortive.  I hate starting from a very ill-fitting baseline and trying to twist it out of all recognition into something else.

 

Your only argument for making it Regen seems to be that "self only Healing is Regen."  WHY?  Regen is one route for it...but it's not the only route.  Yes, it's got some massive advantages, especially if you allow the totally broken costing for per-phase or per-segment Regen.  In many cases, it's the best route, sure.  I don't care.  I want the effects related to Healing.  it's the concept in my head for how this power works.  

 

Can anyone explain to me why Healing can't be used?  DON'T try to sell me that the Regen angle is better, just that the self-only healing breaks the rules, or even contorts the rules to a greater degree than trying to have Regen act like Healing does?

 

Lucius:  skipping the Wounds Only part...everyone's pretty much comfortable with the -1/4...the differences are major.  These characteristics about powers are different:

 

Healing:  is a terminating, attack action;  costs END;  is Instant;  generally does quite a bit at once;  and it's also capped.  Self or other.

Regen:  not an action;  no END;  is persistent;  generally does a little at a time;  it's not capped.  Self only.

 

So you are literally forcing a complete redefinition of everything to convert the one into the other.  I'm ONLY changing "self or other" into self only.   

 

Hugh:  come on.  Hell no, I'm not asking for 20 BOD per.  It's written right now as 4d6, so 12 total.  Yeah...that's all he can heal.  But, he can do that in 2 phases, using the Full Effect rule in APG.  Call it a limit on how much he can patch in a short time.  Figure this is like he's taking a Recovery...for BODY.  It's limited...that's fine.  That's the intent.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

the totally broken costing for per-phase or per-segment Regen. 

 

 

Hear!  Hear!

 

 

I don't know if this helps you, but we flatly ignore the self-healing rules.  Like from Day One of the introduction of Healing.  What we've always done, since Day One, is require at the time of purchase that it be defined as "Self" or "Others" (buy it twice if you want to do both) and let it ride.

 

Now I know I'm going to get comments about how this will totally disrupt my game and cause all kinds of balance issues, but we've been doing it for a long, _long_ time, and all I can say about it is "No; it has no effect whatsoever, and allows people to build the character they want."  Just a big 'ol win-win for us.

 

I can't tell you what 6e does for Healing-- read most of it, once, and it left enough of a taste in my mouth that I likely won't ever do it again.  Vaguely remember being unhappy with what 5e did to adjustment powers here and there, so I am _not_ able to present you with a "rules-legal" concept, but if you'll permit me, I would like to offer you this:

 

Build your Healing, Self-only (-0) at whatever Healing level you feel like you want.  If I recall, there's a method to increase the max capacity like any other Adjustment Power.  If there isn't, then steal that ability from the Adjustment Powers and apply it to your Healing as you would any other Adjustment Power.

 

Use the Limitations "Concentrate" and "Extra Time" (I _think_ I understand what you want-- though I may be completely wrong-- and I think those Limitations will provide it.

 

(I think I stopped with 6e- the Powers sections, anyway-- when I saw that a nice, simple build like Transfer had become a mandatory cobble.  Not sure how I made it past Hand-to-Hand attack costs X but is automatically Y active points.  Sure; that's how we've always done it.  But if you're going to turn Transfer into a mandatory cobble, why change a time-honored existing cobble into unique, special-circumstance rule?)

 

 

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Duke:  I hear where you're coming from.  If you ditch the capped aspect, but then force it to be Self or Other...that feels right for 10 points per die, or at least close.  I may do something like this...a little different, likely, as forcing someone to buy both separately is begging for a multipower so you're just covering slot costs.  (Heck, Healing generally *often* fits into a multipower, so as a practical matter the Self Only or Other Only isn't that significant.)

 

I'll think about this...

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1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Every attempt at defining it with Regen becomes a cheesy mess of limitations that are artificial, IMO, and distortive.  I hate starting from a very ill-fitting baseline and trying to twist it out of all recognition into something else.

 

 

I don't agree that applying three Limitations to a Power constitutes "A cheesy mess  of limitations that are artificial" etc. But I can understand and respect this position.

 

I am not sure you can get what you want out of Healing without at least that many Modifiers.

 

Yes, you absolutely can use Healing. I get the impression you want to be able to use it more often than once a day, so you get to tack on an Advantage. Healing is also an Adjustment Power which means its effect on BODy is halved, and you are also only getting half as much effect as I think you're expecting.

 

To my surprise....

 

Something he has to actively focus on doing:  (Total: 62 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Healing BODY 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Can Heal Limbs, Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (62 Active Points); Conditional Power Self Only (-1), Does Not Work On Some Damage ([Rare attack]; -1/4) (Real Cost: 27)

 

The Healing option is actually cheaper in Real Points (but more Active Points and END cost)

 

Rather than 3 Limitations, it has 1 Advantage and 2 Limitations. Hopefully you don't consider that a "cheesy mess."

 

If you do, I don't know what you're going to do.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Feeding a cheesy mess to the palindromedary

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Every attempt at defining it with Regen becomes a cheesy mess of limitations that are artificial, IMO, and distortive.  I hate starting from a very ill-fitting baseline and trying to twist it out of all recognition into something else.

 

I can truly appreciate where you are coming from on this reasoning. 

The  main reason I worked on the Protean power for so long is that trying to use Desolid to represent and oozing/stretchy/gaseous SFX felt like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

To me it just didn't make any sense.

 

Given that's your viewpoint on Regeneration for this SFX, then you should use some form of Healing or whatever else you find more appropriate.

But when you ask for opinions on these boards then you need to make it clear from the outset why you don't want to use Regeneration and want some other solution. Otherwise you invite people to offer suggestions you won't take seriously.

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Thanks, Vlad-- you hit precisely on why we have always made "Self Only" or "Others Only" -0 Limitations. :lol:

 

And no; we don't generally use the caps on Adjustment Powers, either.  We've (most of us) been playing since before they were law, as it were, and it's just one of the things we didn't bother adapting.  Mostly, I suppose, because we still cost them by 2e, and at those prices, you _deserve_ some utility out of it. :lol:

 

 

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Lucius:  the "doesn't work against rare damage" limitation is not one I'm counting here, as it's going to be present in any approach you use.  So, no, your build's along the lines of what I was considering...but I'd actually NOT included Decreased Re-Use, I'd bought more Healing.  But the Decreased Re-Use is in response to an awkward rule...you can only apply Healing once a day?  Ugh.  Why not stay with maximum effect rules along the lines of the other adjustment powers?  If I've got a 4d6 Healing power, then who cares if I Heal 4 BODY in the morning, then 8 more in the evening?  Why is this out of line?  But it is the RAW.  You're applying Decreased Re-Use, I suspect, because RAW is poor.

I'll also note:  the insane COST of Decreased Re-Use shows that the cost basis for Regen frequency is just WRONG.

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Let's see if we can better understand the power goals and the various routes to achieve those ends. 

 

Goal: Character increases their BODY in a single action upto their starting BODY value.  

 

To achieve this basic goal there are 5 generally available power options:

 

Healing, Aid, Regen, Absorb, BODY. 

 

We can rule out Absorb because it isn't really under direct individual control when it goes off and there is no reasonable RAW way to make it so. 

 

The remaining four all have their advantages and limitations. 

 

Healing can obviously achieve the goal but we need to take note that it requires a variety of advantages and limitations:

 

High dice pool to recover the potential damage desired over and over again, decreased reuse times, Self Only, and a few more Special Effect specific lims. 

 

Aid to BODY, like Healing has the same benefits but needs a lot of work.  Self Only, only to starting value, decreased fade rate, high dice pools, etc. 

 

Regen is a good default as it is automatically self only healing. It would need either non-persistent or Costs END to achieve the 'not always on' effect. You could even make it an Instant power identical to Healing. 

 

BODY pools with Cost END only to Activate and a cap set on it would achieve great parity with Healing. 

 

You could do combos of the above and in particular with Aid&Regen (my example above), and even Regen&BODY. The latter being a backup pool of body the character could draw from as an action to restore and a limited Regen on that spare body. In this way, we are essentially constructing an END Reserve for BODY.  

 

You seem set on only allowing 1 option which I think confuses many of us. If you have already decided how this power must be built, it generates confusion for the community to be asked how one should build it. Thus perhaps the root of yours and our frustrations. 

 

If you feel you know the way you want it built, please do so. Please do not criticize or otherwise scold the fine folks trying to offer up ideas here. 

 

La Rose. 

 

 

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I considered the Aid approach, but the inherent aspect that Aid points fade makes things weird.  Decreased fade rate really doesn't help;  they still fade...and you still have max effect issues.  It kinda works from an SFX perspective...the Aid represents a temporary, unstable patch.  Throw in a somewhat offbeat Regen, 1 BODY per turn, Triggered by the Aid, only to offset the Aid fade.  Thus, the Regen "shores up" the patches made by the Aid, gradually.  As a power description it's not bad.  The Aid's totally basic...Self Only, to BODY, with the damage limitation.  The Regen aspect...the Triggered I don't mind, given that it's a non-automatic trigger.  But the only to offset the fade is not altogether to my taste.  

 

I was never asking how to build the power...but re-reading the OP, ok, that was clearly not how it was taken.  I felt I'd implied the base power WAS Healing, because Regen won't have Self Only as a limitation.  Apparently not.

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7 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I considered the Aid approach, but the inherent aspect that Aid points fade makes things weird.  Decreased fade rate really doesn't help;  they still fade...and you still have max effect issues.  It kinda works from an SFX perspective...the Aid represents a temporary, unstable patch.  Throw in a somewhat offbeat Regen, 1 BODY per turn, Triggered by the Aid, only to offset the Aid fade.  Thus, the Regen "shores up" the patches made by the Aid, gradually.  As a power description it's not bad.  The Aid's totally basic...Self Only, to BODY, with the damage limitation.  The Regen aspect...the Triggered I don't mind, given that it's a non-automatic trigger.  But the only to offset the fade is not altogether to my taste.  

 

I was never asking how to build the power...but re-reading the OP, ok, that was clearly not how it was taken.  I felt I'd implied the base power WAS Healing, because Regen won't have Self Only as a limitation.  Apparently not.

 

The practical reality is that the power you envision is not simulated by any power as written.  It will need power modifiers (advantages and/or limitations), and/or combination powers (like the Aid/Regen combination).  A lot comes down to exactly how you envision the power working.

 

12 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Every attempt at defining it with Regen becomes a cheesy mess of limitations that are artificial, IMO, and distortive.  I hate starting from a very ill-fitting baseline and trying to twist it out of all recognition into something else.

 

 

Much of the challenge, at least to me, is your perception that regen requires "a cheesy mes", but healing will be simple and streamlined.  You seem to be the only one who sees it that way, and the rest of us are explaining why we do not.  Ultimately, you can build it any way you want.

 

12 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Healing:  is a terminating, attack action;  costs END;  is Instant;  generally does quite a bit at once;  and it's also capped.  Self or other.

Regen:  not an action;  no END;  is persistent;  generally does a little at a time;  it's not capped.  Self only.

 

So you are literally forcing a complete redefinition of everything to convert the one into the other.  I'm ONLY changing "self or other" into self only.   

 

Hugh:  come on.  Hell no, I'm not asking for 20 BOD per.  It's written right now as 4d6, so 12 total.  Yeah...that's all he can heal.  But, he can do that in 2 phases, using the Full Effect rule in APG.  Call it a limit on how much he can patch in a short time.  Figure this is like he's taking a Recovery...for BODY.  It's limited...that's fine.  That's the intent.

 

So to make Regen work, we need to:

 

 - make it an attack action.  I would allow Extra Time, requires an attack action for each use, -3/4, as this is a bit more limiting than Extra Time, Constant Power requires a half phase action each phase to maintain.

 - make it cost END.  OK - Costs END (-1/2)

 - make it instant - as it requires an attack action for each use, it is instant.

 - make it work per phase, which could be done with the APG rules, with a very high Regen figure (applying the optional rule to spread per turn regen out per phase) or allowing that the attack action + END allows the character to get one use of Regen, and now he cannot use it again until a turn has passed.

 

To make Regen work, we need to:

 

 - limit it to Self Only (the fact that this option is not in the rules is a hole in my opinion, but could also be taken as an indicator that the expectation is to use Regen for this purpose)

 - reduce the re-use time to whatever level you are comfortable with

 - buy enough to get the BOD level you are looking for

 - either apply Standard Effect or accept the randomness of BOD healed

 - either accept the cap or use an optional APG rule

 

I don't have the APG in front of me.  Regen per phase gets really fast.  Regen that takes extra time is probably way overpriced given how many BOD per time period is given up, or is not really overpriced at all because it's really just "heals up out of combat" anyway, at least until we get down to very long time periods.  For 24 points, I can have +24 BOD.  How much per phase Regen will that buy me?  Subtract 14 for regenerating one BOD per minute.  How often will the character take 24+ BOD within half an hour or so, such that the regeneration is actually more valuable in play?  The reality is that Regeneration's value varies widely depending on how often BOD is taken in the game to begin with.

 

Ignoring APG for the moment, you wanted 4d6, which will be 12 standard effect, so 6 CP of BOD (halved as a defensive power).  6e BOD costs 1 point so we are about there.  That's not the 10 over two phases you wanted, by RAW, so we need to pump it up.

 

4d6 Healing, BOD, 40 AP, Self Only (-1, same as Aid), not vs all damage (-1/4); plus 4d6 Aid, BOD, 40 AP, Self Only (-1), not vs all damage (-1/4), only enhances maximum healing (-3/4 based largely on Extra time - this is essentially "extra attack action" for which I suggested -3/4 above).  Total AP 80, total RP 17 + 13 = 30; costs 8 END per use; caps out at 12 BOD per day due to standard effect.

 

OR

 

6 BOD regen per turn, 96 AP, requires an attack action (-3/4), costs END (-1/2), 4 charges (-1 1/2), not vs some damage (-1/4) real cost 24, costs 9 END per use

 

I'm hybridizing "4 charges" to cap this at 20 BOD per day, much like the Healing will cap at 12 BOD per day with two uses.  I have to handwave the "requires a turn" aspect. 

 

This would be much cheaper with APG's "per phase" regen or APG's "full effect" (which I assume just means the 6d6 can accumulate up to 36 CP x 1/2 for defensive power = 18 CP of BOD.  However, the costs above are coming out pretty comparable to restore 6 BOD per use, 2 uses per day.

 

The most significant variable, in my view, is how often he can heal.  If you're OK with the cap at 2 effective uses per day, it seems like either build gets a similar result.  If you want to be able to heal more per day, Regen is likely the more cost-efficient approach over a decreased re-use.  Either requires several modifiers, some customized, and either would be facilitated with some judicious rules-changes, whether from APG or elsewhere.

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12 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I don't know if this helps you, but we flatly ignore the self-healing rules.  Like from Day One of the introduction of Healing.  What we've always done, since Day One, is require at the time of purchase that it be defined as "Self" or "Others" (buy it twice if you want to do both) and let it ride.

 

Now I know I'm going to get comments about how this will totally disrupt my game and cause all kinds of balance issues, but we've been doing it for a long, _long_ time, and all I can say about it is "No; it has no effect whatsoever, and allows people to build the character they want."  Just a big 'ol win-win for us.

 

I can't tell you what 6e does for Healing-- read most of it, once, and it left enough of a taste in my mouth that I likely won't ever do it again.  Vaguely remember being unhappy with what 5e did to adjustment powers here and there, so I am _not_ able to present you with a "rules-legal" concept, but if you'll permit me, I would like to offer you this:

 

I'd say "no limits" Aid or Absorb would be much more problematic.  I think the healing cap arose when Fantasy Hero was first created (we did not have Aid or Healing in Champions 1e - 3e, only in Fantasy) as a backlash to the D&D tradition that we could heal a character of enough damage to kill an elephant multiple times every day.  D&D, of course, had limited spells per day, which Fantasy Hero avoided.  If you want BOD damage to be a more serious issue than STUN damage, it can't be recoverable in full after every combat. 

 

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(I think I stopped with 6e- the Powers sections, anyway-- when I saw that a nice, simple build like Transfer had become a mandatory cobble.  Not sure how I made it past Hand-to-Hand attack costs X but is automatically Y active points.  Sure; that's how we've always done it.  But if you're going to turn Transfer into a mandatory cobble, why change a time-honored existing cobble into unique, special-circumstance rule?)

 

I'll take the blame for that one.  I hated the 5e FAQ requiring any advantage on Transfer being purchased twice, once for the Drain part and once for the Aid part.  I doubt Transfer would have been an independent power if we had Aid and Healing from the start - we would have made compound powers instead.  Adjustment powers in general have always had issues.  1e, only characteristics could be drained or transferred,. 2e/3e brought us Power, rather than CHAR, drains and transfers, while Fantasy Hero brought us Aid and Healing.

 

4e brought us the vastly problematic "Aid both aids and heals" model.  5e cleaned some of that up.

 

6e made Drains ranged (so a STUN drain finally could match an AVLD Blast) and cleaned up the "Transfer advantages/limitations" conundrum.  It also removed 5e's "once you can't gain more points, you can't drain more points" inequity.  It also allows a "healing transfer" by linking Self Only healing instead of self only Aids to a Drain. 

 

So now we can buy 1d6 Drain (10 AP), joint Link with Aid (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) 7 RP + 1d6 Aid, Trigger (+1) 12 AP, Self Only (-1), Linked to Drain (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4), limited to points drained (-1/4) 3 RP.  That's not the book build - I  think "must use Aid with Drain and vice versa" limits both, especially as you must spend the 1 END for Aid even when your Aid is capped out, and that not getting any Aid when your opponent has power defense mandates a limit there.  2 END and 10 RP per 1d6.  And, if you want a reduced fade rate on one, you put it on that one, or if you want it on both, you put it on both.

 

Overall, I think it's better (both more appropriately costed and more flexible), but it's certainly not as easy as "15 points per 1d6".

 

11 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Duke:  I hear where you're coming from.  If you ditch the capped aspect, but then force it to be Self or Other...that feels right for 10 points per die, or at least close.  I may do something like this...a little different, likely, as forcing someone to buy both separately is begging for a multipower so you're just covering slot costs.  (Heck, Healing generally *often* fits into a multipower, so as a practical matter the Self Only or Other Only isn't that significant.)

 

I'll think about this...

 

Ditching the cap means 1d6 Healing cures everyone on the team of all afflictions between every combat.  It also means you can clean out the hospitals pretty rapidly.  That Multipower makes "pick self or others" pretty inexpensive to overcome too.

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14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

If you ditch the capped aspect, but then force it to be Self or Other...that feels right for 10 points per die, or at least close. 

Don't forget that the halving rule (6e1 p141 under 'Defense Powers' in the left-hand column) applies.  So sure, it's 10 CP per die, but you need to half what comes up on the die when healing BODY and STUN because of said halving rule.

 

I mention this because when you consider the halving rule, healing is more like 20 CP per full die of it (since you're going to have to buy 2d6 in order to get 1d6's worth of actual output after the halving rule is considered). Talk about totally broken costing; apparently Healing is so unheroic that Hero dis-incents its use (in order to favour defenses) with absurd costing.

 

Don't forget to plan your framework appropriately, as well -- since it'll need to be bigger to account for more dice of healing.

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