BoloOfEarth Posted November 12, 2018 Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 Actually, END is considered a Defense power, so Adjustment Power effects on it are halved (whether Drain, Aid, or Healing). Thus, rolling 20 points would result in 50 points of END being drained. (20 * 5 / 2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted November 12, 2018 Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 10/31/2018 at 11:37 AM, BoloOfEarth said: Some characters have an alternate way to boost or recover END -- Healing, Aid, etc. This might be on a self-only basis, but in some cases a team might have a "healer" sort who could restore teammates' spent END. "The secret compartment of my ring I fill with an Underdog Super Energy Pill." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 END is considered a defensive power in 6e, so the roll of 20 would be halved to 10, x5 is 50 END. In 5e, this would be a roll of 20 which drains 40 END, so the change is there, but less dramatic than if these abilities had not been designated defensive for adjustment power purposes. BoloOfEarth beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 I don't know at this point how you could do it any better, but I've never liked that rule. Its basically "this works too well so, uh, its half. Against specific stuff we think it works too well on" which doesn't appeal to me at all in terms of rule elegance or design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted November 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 9 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I don't know at this point how you could do it any better, but I've never liked that rule. Its basically "this works too well so, uh, its half. Against specific stuff we think it works too well on" which doesn't appeal to me at all in terms of rule elegance or design. I agree. I'm not sure what to do, short of going with the earlier version of Drain: the cost was 10 pts per die x the cost of the Stat to be drained. So back then, CON costing 2 pts per stat, a 1d6 CON Drain would cost 20 pts. When you rolled that 1d6, the amount rolled was the amount of CON drained; a roll of 3 meant your 20 CON was now 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 The earlier version of Drain is easily restored - all it means is changing the dice so you roll stat points instead of character points. I think the change was made more to accommodate drains of things other than characteristics than anything else., although Advantaged characteristics are also problematic with a straight "d of STR points drained" model. I believe "only half of defensive powers are adjusted" has been with us since the dawn of the Hero System, so we have always had some abilities for which adjustment powers were less effective, on a pure CP basis. If adjustment powers are overly effective targetting certain game elements, I believe modifying the adjustment power rules makes more sense than recosting a wide variety of game elements, and I think Draning an average of 21 PD for 60 AP would probably be excessively powerful, as compared to Draining 21 STR or 10.5 DEX for the same price. I am a believer in point cost economics. If everyone buys reduced END instead of extra END and REC, or extra defenses instead of extra STUN and REC, then I believe their relatice pricing is not appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Actually, Hugh, I think it was 4th or 5th edition that started the "only half of defensive powers are adjusted". Don't have time to verify which at the moment. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 I just checked the PDFs. Both 4th and 5th edition note that adjustment effects on defense powers should be halved. Which is something I never knew back then. Edit to add: Though the definition of what constitutes a Defense changed. In 4E, it included PD, ED, Force Field, Armor, Damage Resistance, Mental Defense, Flash Defense, Power Defense, Lack of Weakness, PRE, and Knockback Resistance. If 5E, it included PD, ED, any Defense Power (Armor, Damage Reduction, Damage Resistance, Flash Defense, Force Field, Force Wall, Knockback Resistance, Lack of Weakness, Mental Defense, Missile Deflection and Reflection, and Power Defense), "and the like", though EGO, PRE, and Desolid are explicitly not Defense Powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 Quote I am a believer in point cost economics. If everyone buys reduced END instead of extra END and REC, or extra defenses instead of extra STUN and REC, then I believe their relative pricing is not appropriate. Well that's going to depend a lot on the game and setting and what powers you have. Are the fights long? What kind of damage is most likely to be encountered? How common are drain effects. Plus, its no more inappropriate for people to buy more END than to buy more reduced END; ideally either one looks attractive, and you decide based on your character build and the kind of game you're in. With long fights, lower END cost is probably better. With shorter fights but lots of different abilities, higher END is probably more attractive. Then you have to factor in adjustment powers; even if buying more END is a better deal, what does that do to adjustment powers, are they too powerful now? Has the cost of stats made keeping track of END meaningless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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