Dealing with Killer Characters

[BoloOfEarth]

Something mentioned by Dean Shomshak in the Brrrr!  It's a Cold Snap! thread brought up an ongoing concern in my Champions campaign:  killer characters.

 

There are, admittedly, some NPC villains in my game who have a murderous streak.  The Slaughterhouse Seven (adapted from Heroes Unlimited), for instance, are not shy about taking out innocents if it furthers their plans.  DEMON has sacrificed people in their dark rituals, and the Corrupted (extradimensional nasties inhabiting the bodies of a group of missionaries) definitely did not play well with others.  There's a brood of vampires who have been problematic for the heroes several times.  And of course there's Genocide the Purity League, who hunt mutants down.

 

In general, it doesn't bother me when the heroes decide the kid gloves are off when dealing with supervillains / groups like these.

 

Then there are special cases - villains or villain groups with a grudge against a particular company or organization.  The Aquans, for example, (not the group from the Scourge From the Deep module) were a group of oceanographic scientists and ship's crewmen who ran afoul of Master Control / Montgomery International when they discovered a toxic waste dump site off the coast.  An attempt by MI to permanently silence the scientists at the dump site ended up giving them superpowers, turning some of them into freaks.  So they're particularly deadly to MI personnel, not as much so to others.

 

And there are groups like Deathstroke, who may threaten mass murder but in actuality never get to the point of carrying out those threats.

 

But for the most part, supervillains are no more bloodthirsty than their run-of-the-mill criminal counterparts.

I do have the genre trope of numerous captured villains either breaking out of prison or otherwise getting released, which I realize can be frustrating to the players.  I try to keep the breakouts to just one a year, and in two cases the heroes were on hand to stop some villains from escaping.  (In one case, the mass prison break was foreshadowed with a few clues the players unfortunately didn't pursue.)

 

(more to follow)

[BoloOfEarth]

What's worrying me is that some of the PCs seem to be getting more bloodthirsty, or at least unconcerned about causing major BODY damage.  Part of the problem is that I allowed the team mage to have a Healing spell (2d6), so they've started to figure it doesn't really matter if they do, say, 8 BODY damage to somebody.  All they need to do is call in the mage to "fix their mistake."

 

Some of it, however, is them showing no restraint in their attacks.  For example, the team brick has a 3d6 HKA.  At first glance I didn't figure it was a major deal - not considering that he can put enough STR into it to do 6d6 HKA.  He used this on a mentalist villain (Croc, from the Aquans), and did 6 BODY past defenses.  Undeterred when I told him that, he followed it up with another 6d6 HKA to take Croc to negative BODY.  I'm pretty sure he'd have followed that up with a third one had Nereid not used a water portal to get Croc out of there.  And the player seemed unconcerned when the next-session's news said that he had killed Croc.  (Given the high amount of BODY damage done, I decided the Aquans - with no Healing powers - were unable to save him but didn't want to leave his body for MI to experiment upon.)

 

And yes, I realize that I failed in my job as GM by allowing the Healing spell and the potential-6d6 HKA in the first place.  But since they're in play, I'm trying to figure out what to do to rein this in.

[sentry0]

Maybe start using the optional rules for impairment and state that though the BODY may be healed the impairment will not.  They may not care either way tbh some players are just like that.

[BoloOfEarth]

In my news sheets (I do 1-2 per game session - recapping the prior adventure, some info on the current one, and either foreshadowing future adventures or some filler articles) I've had a few news items about normal people being mind controlled to put on realistic-looking supervillain costumes and committing crimes, then getting killed by police / PRIMUS / NPC superheroes.  My thought was that this might serve as a warning to show a little restraint, but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

 

I haven't actually pulled a "Gilt Complex" type scenario on the PC heroes, though I'm finding myself mildly tempted to do so on the brick with the HKA.  (Having him run into a mind-controlled normal in a Black Harlequin outfit releasing a bunch of completely normal wind-up toys in a shopping mall.)  However, I'm pretty sure that would be completely counterproductive.

 

I should probably talk this all over with the players, but I'm not sure what the best way of doing that might be, or what course of action I should take.

 

Has anybody here had similar problems to deal with, and how did they get resolved in your cases?

[steriaca]

Punish them by the court of public opinion. Killer "superheroes" should be treated just as bad as supervillains.

[BoloOfEarth]

5 minutes ago, sentry0 said:

Maybe start using the optional rules for impairment and state that though the BODY may be healed the impairment will not.  They may not care either way tbh some players are just like that.

 

They might even look at that as a good thing - let the impairment serve as a reminder to the criminals of the consequences of their actions.

 

One of the tipping points, to me, was last session when the heroes were fighting the vampires atop a 5-story tower of a local mansion.  Four of the vampire minions grabbed four enthralled young women and held them over the side of the tower, threatening to drop them.  The mage just shrugged and said, "A 5-story fall will hurt a lot, but it probably won't kill them.  I can just go down and heal them afterward."  Since the team teleporter immediately used a multiple attack to UAA teleport the women to safety, it quickly became a moot point, but it illustrates the players' attitudes.

[sentry0]

1 minute ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

They might even look at that as a good thing - let the impairment serve as a reminder to the criminals of the consequences of their actions.

 

One of the tipping points, to me, was last session when the heroes were fighting the vampires atop a 5-story tower of a local mansion.  Four of the vampire minions grabbed four enthralled young women and held them over the side of the tower, threatening to drop them.  The mage just shrugged and said, "A 5-story fall will hurt a lot, but it probably won't kill them.  I can just go down and heal them afterward."  Since the team teleporter immediately used a multiple attack to UAA teleport the women to safety, it quickly became a moot point, but it illustrates the players' attitudes.

 

Do any of these characters have a Heroic Code of Ethics?  This sounds like a Dark Champions game...maybe you're playing the wrong genre for the group?

 

The mage was metagaming and being a jerk IMO.

[death tribble]

Take them out back and shoot them.

[BoloOfEarth]

8 minutes ago, sentry0 said:

 

Do any of these characters have a Heroic Code of Ethics?  This sounds like a Dark Champions game...maybe you're playing the wrong genre for the group?

 

The mage was metagaming and being a jerk IMO.

 

It's a 6E Champions (not Dark Champions) game - for each adventure involving someone like DEMON or the vampires or the like, there's 3-4 involving mainly non-killer homebrew groups on a par with GRAB, VIPER, and the Ultimates.  They've had multiple run-ins with Foxbat Force, for instance, and the A-Team (a for-hire group made up of Armadillo, Ankylosaur, and a bunch of homemade villains whose names start with the letter "A").

 

Two of the PCs have Code vs. Killing, at the Strong level.  The other 5 don't have any sort of Code of Ethics. 

[BoloOfEarth]

10 minutes ago, death tribble said:

Take them out back and shoot them.

 

Actually kinda-considering this option.  At least, in the form of, "maybe it's time to end this campaign."

 

Wait, did you mean the characters, or the players? 

[sentry0]

1 minute ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

Actually kinda-considering this option.  At least, in the form of, "maybe it's time to end this campaign."

 

Wait, did you mean the characters, or the players? 

 

It honestly sounds like your game and the players are incongruent with one another.  That type of behavior is par for the course in a Dark Champions game IMO but completely out of bounds in a regular Champions game.  As Stan stated I would murder them in the court of public opinion and they will very quickly find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

 

There is a great many things you can do to them that will make their lives difficult.  The real question is: what's it worth to you?

 

If this isn't going to be fun for you then call it, it ain't worth it 

[Scott Ruggels]

I was/am the Killer character. I was playing a former military flying energy projector, that was quite an effective member of a St. Louis based  hero team.  I was a bit free with the  energy blasts, but usually showed some restraint, but honestly wasn't concerned for the welfare of my targets.  However, during one engagement, My character had been aggravated by the situation in combat, and I think blew a psych lim roll, and dropped a large AOE attack on a villain, who was behind cover of a car. The AOE did a number on the villain, and the car detonated, killing him.  The other villains were captured or fled.  However the District attorney wanted to prosecute, and convened a grand jury to investigate it.  Thankfully it was out of the press, however, the GM seemed to have some experience with court matters and gave the whole situation a rather weighty and threateneing air.  The Character had to spend a week "off duty", and was unavailable for the rest of the team except on phone calls. The Jury interviews were pointed, and only because the character had been through ROE violation investigations in the past, that he was able to talk his way through the situation.  For me, it was the most effective demonstration of the weight of law I have ever played in a superhero game, and it effectively cowed some more of the character's blood thirsty instincts (for a time), and kept the character on the straight and narrow. 

[Scott Ruggels]

Speaking of St. Louis.  were any of the villains members of an aggrieved group?  Can their attorneys/ families/political activists, gin up some protests against the hero group? Might be inconvenient to have the their headquarters surrounded by hostile pickets every morning.  If they have any secrets, this might be where the Campaign analogue to 4chan starts to investigate them.  If they are perceived as operating outside of the public interest, or above the law, will that attract the attention to them from the higher levels of Government?  It might summon agents to give them a stern talking to, or some "wall to wall counselling", depending on how the agents are received.

[BoloOfEarth]

57 minutes ago, steriaca said:

Punish them by the court of public opinion. Killer "superheroes" should be treated just as bad as supervillains.

 

The situation when Croc was killed involved the Aquans taking over an offshore Montgomery International aquatic research station, which was actually a trap set by Master Control to take out the Aquans.  He had designed the station's nuclear reactor specifically so it could work as an ersatz nuke bomb, but the PC heroes figured it out and kept it from going off.  However, Master Control managed to blame the changes to the reactor design on the Aquans, in particular saying that their mentalist (Croc) psionically influenced the MI engineers and government inspectors to approve the faulty design (when it was actually Master Control who used his mental powers to do that).

 

This makes it difficult to inflame the public against the hero for killing Croc, since Master Control had already set things up to make Croc look like a would-be mass murderer.  And it's in Master Control's / Randall Montgomery's best interest to make the hero look like, well, a hero for doing what he did. 

 

Hmmmm... though a crusading investigative reporter might uncover the truth...  I'll have to think on that one. 

[Ockham's Spoon]

It sounds like the players are meta-gaming rather than acting like real characters.  They may not have some heroic code of ethics, but ask them point blank if they were really in a situation where someone could die would they be so flippant about it?  This isn't supposed to be like a video game.  If they are going to be callous enough to risk the lives of innocents (a 5 story fall probably won't kill anyone and we can heal later) then public opinion of them is going to go sour when someone gets hurt, and they can expect less cooperation from law enforcement and other heroes, even if everyone gets healed ultimately.  "The end justifies the means" is hardly a heroic sentiment. 

 

You might also put the shoe on the other foot.  Team them up with a 'hero' who has a dangerous AoE attack who uses it indiscriminately and blasts his teammates along with the villains.  Afterward, he explains it away "You are all tough heroes, I knew you wouldn't be too hurt by it, and besides your mage can always heal you."  Or have him injure one of the character's DNPCs in a similar situation and shrug it off saying "Well nobody died.  No harm, no foul, right?"

 

Alternately, you might have them in a situation where they are depending on the mage to fix their mistakes, but the mage is unavailable or incapacitated at the time.

[Lord Liaden]

First thing I always do with players who seem to be going in a direction I don't think suits the game I want to GM, is sit down with them and discuss my concerns. Often the players haven't really thought about the implications of their actions, and just need that clarification. Sometimes the GM and players can find a compromise position accommodating what they both want. At other times there's a fundamental difference in expectations, that may mean the existing game has to change tone and direction, or even end altogether.

 

However, if the players have agreed to a certain type of game, but their PCs aren't accepting the implications and consequences of that choice, it's a GM's responsibility to demonstrate them within the context of the game setting. In addition to the advice above, it could be helpful to remind them that the consequences to a person of being seriously injured aren't just physical. Have they ever allowed an innocent bystander/civilian to be hurt by a villain, with the mage healing those injuries afterward? Let them be confronted by that person who's now suffering PTSD: "You let that guy rip me apart! Now I can't get the memory of the agony and the terror out of my mind. I see his face everywhere. I'm scared of everything. I can't sleep, I can't work. You were supposed to protect me!"

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Two of the PCs have Code vs. Killing, at the Strong level.  The other 5 don't have any sort of Code of Ethics. 

 

What's the emotional motivation that led to them having those Codes vs. Killing? Did they suffer some trauma or loss? Do they feel they have to be better than the villains? Are they upholders of justice and the rule of law? If so, it might be appropriate to remind their players that just because their characters aren't throwing around lethal force, it wouldn't make much sense for them to stand around silently while their team mates do so. Also dangle the bait of role-playing opportunities that can come out of in-game conflicts between PCs with differing ethical standards (as long as they stay inside the game).

[Duke Bushido]

I'm on a ten minute break, so forgive me if this has already been said, but there are options.   I've had this happen a few times over the years, mostly with players recruited from the "murder hobo" games. 

 

First:

 

Supers are way more powerful than normals.  The reason heroes aren't feared, hunted, and locked up as a deadly threat like villains or deranged dogs is that they have put a lot of work into _earning_ trust from the public.  If they act like villains, they will not be viewed as heroes by Johnny Onthestreet.  They will be defamed and reviled and they will have earned it.   They will have become villains, and that's something that NG you have to demonstrate through the world around them. 

 

Have the other players lean on him, especially in character.   Sometimes role-playing it- and it can take a _lot_ of work sometimes-- not only solves the problem, but leads to character dev lopement and story seeds. 

 

 

Twice I've had them locked up.  I mean like go-to-jail-and-stand-trial-then-some-years-in-super-prison type locked up. As my nails are not in Gotham, they have all four walls, so there isn't a lot of "escaped from prison" in my campaigns (jail, maybe; prison?  Twice since 1982), savy players know its serious. 

 

One of the two I had to go that far with finally wised up.  The other not so much:  we spent a number of private sessions attempting break-outs, etc.  Finally he made a new character.  That one was _also_ a murder hobo, and it just started out all kinds of bad. 

 

We  (me and him) talked privately for a while, and we both agreed--amicably, mind you, that he is wasn't a good fit for us (though amusingly, we disagreed about _why_ I let it go so as to keep the peace, of course.  

 

He finally found a troupe of like-minded players and we all moved on. 

 

 

I can't say it will end the way you would like, but if it's a problem for the whole group, it has to end, regardless. 

 

Duke

 

Hope this helps! 

[Brian Stanfield]

You already seem to have some ideas, and there have been some great suggestions. Let me add my $.02 worth:

• NPCs dangled over the edge of a building and left to their own fates by the "heroes" will have overheard the conversation by the mage. Send them to a counselor for PTSD, and have a lawsuit drawn against the team for extreme emotional trauma.
• The news may have recorded the rooftop incident, to the horror of the public, and perhaps the team will be monitored by the media, who will judge every little thing they do and put a negative spin on the team. Perhaps one investigative reporter in particular will make it his mission to cynically uncover the team as "fake heroes" who aren't really concerned with the welfare of the community. He could dog the team for quite a long time, putting their behavior directly in the spotlight. 
• Your players with the Code vs. Killing (Strong) should be stepping in here. This could turn into a whole Captain America: Civil War type of scenario, which wouldn't be a bad thing in terms of debating the philosophy of heroing. But they absolutely must confront the nonchalance of the violence, even to villains, but certainly to civilians.
• Go the route of The Incredibles: force the characters underground in an outcry of public fear and criticism. Make them prove themselves to be part of the solution, not the problem, in a series of encounters on which could hinge their success or failure in the public eye. Make them gain the public trust again.
• Or, create a government agency who has been monitoring the unethical and detrimental use of superpowers, and has their own team of "real heroes" come to arrest your team. Give them a chance to see themselves as the villains, and maybe they'll change a bit. 

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head in a few minutes.

[BoloOfEarth]

As to what the mage said, the team has a Mind Link so the statement was almost certainly over that and not spoken aloud.  Any news recording would show the vampires putting their hostages over the side, and the teleporter almost instantly getting them to safety.  So it's not going to look bad on the heroes. 

 

I can't exactly make the players whose characters have CvKs step in, though I can ask them what they think of the brick's behavior and the mage's statement, and maybe get a dialogue going.

 

One of the overarching plots in the campaign involves the Empress of a Billion Dimensions trying to winnow down the number of supers on the campaign world, in preparation for an invasion.  I could tie that into the news items about mind controlled normals dressed as supervillains getting killed by superheroes -- make it all part of a plan to discredit superheroes to make her invasion easier.  She could have a psionic minion working at that, as well as on select government officials.  The son of the President (not Trump in my world) is leader of a White House sanctioned team called Executive Order, and there's no love between them and the PC hero team.  Having EO and the President riding the PC team could highlight some of their excesses. 

 

Many thanks to all for the food for thought.

 

 

[steriaca]

Don't forget the availability of secret cameras, including wearable "cop cams". I seen a ' as seen on tv' comersals for one for civilian use.

 

Even if nobody did anything wrong, some good editing and presto, your hero team doing bad on HeroTube (or whatever you call YouTube in your campaign).

[Duke Bushido]

6 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

a "Gilt Complex" type scenario

 

 

 

 

I know: I already said all I could say advice-wise; but I have a question for you, Sir:

 

What is this?  I have heard this reference a number of times on this board, and have absolutely no idea  what it is.

 

 

5 hours ago, sentry0 said:

 

The mage was metagaming and being a jerk IMO.

 

Yep; this is a serious pet peeve of mine.  I don't require you to be a drama major or anything, but I will beat you with a wooden spoon for this kind of crap: "Oh, and if I push, I can max out at sixteen tons" and that sort of thing.  Or "Oh!  It's 12 already?  Never mind then; I'm going to use this instead, because my post-12 will pop my END right back to where I am anyway, so I can do that first thing right after" and "No; I counted it out on the map and my explosion will lose two dice, averaging 2 BODY, which is just enough it won't get through his DEF (which I have already taken meta-steps to calculate while everyone else was roleplaying)"--

 

you know: things that don't actually happen like that in either the real world or the source material.  Gad but it's irritating!

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

You might also put the shoe on the other foot.  Team them up with a 'hero' who has a dangerous AoE attack who uses it indiscriminately and blasts his teammates along with the villains.  Afterward, he explains it away "You are all tough heroes, I knew you wouldn't be too hurt by it, and besides your mage can always heal you."  Or have him injure one of the character's DNPCs in a similar situation and shrug it off saying "Well nobody died.  No harm, no foul, right?"

 

That one doesn't usually work-- no; I apologize.  It has never worked for me.  I've tried it three or four times, and every time it simply results in a brawl between "heroes," which is just as irritating at the table as it is in the movies (Sure; why wouldn't Thor and Iron Man take just a minute to beat the crap out of each other?  That makes perfect sense, and it's absolutely _certain_ to solve the crisis at hand, right?), then grudge matches-- it just gets ugly.  It's almost like you're putting up a sign that says "I'm ready to play things your way."

 

Though to be honest, there are more than the three or four people I've tried it on out there in the world, and I may have just mishandled it top to bottom.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

 

Alternately, you might have them in a situation where they are depending on the mage to fix their mistakes, but the mage is unavailable or incapacitated at the time.

 

This I absolutely _love_!

 

Why?  Because it's one of those great, insightful little lines that when read causes an entire scenario to pop completely-formed into your mind!   

 

The last few villains (or TEAMS of villains!) who have been on the wrong end of unnecessary force have been waiting to get their licks in: "Hey, there's something of a protocol here!  Sure, we'd take them down if we had two, but we're not gonna stomp on their skulls when they're down!

 

"Look, you, me, Yeager over there-- we've all been in the freakin' HOSPITAL for _weeks_ because of that over-reacting ass hat.  Even the LAPD won't beat you like that mustard does, and he does it just because he can.  So I've been thinking.  More than that, I've been _studying_.   You guys ever notice why they ain't been sued?  Or arrested?  Or even called out?  Yeah; that little guy with the wand.  He goes out, waves his hospital-in-a-stick at whoever that schmuck just plastered and it's 'okey-dokey, Dan!'

 

"It's crap!  And guys, I think I got a way to give him a taste of his own medicine....  You remember those jobs I was pulling a while back for that outfit with the science motif?  No?  Well anyway, they been working on this "power booster" thing.  You take a few doses of the wonder ray, and whatever natural powers you got, they get like _tripled_ for twenty-four hours.  They ain't never said it, but they know they couldn't have done it without me and a few other guy helping them uh...  "raise capital" for the initial investment.  They owe me a pile of loot as it is, but suppose I was to work out a trade with them?  Maybe a dose or two of wonder ray for me and six or seven of my good friends-- friends who all have a grudge in common?

 

"Yeah...  That's what I thought.  Yeah, I'm grinning, too.  But first, here's the way I see it:  we all know them; we know their tactics.  We know their powers.  We also know _other people_ who might be able to help us with planning, or just giving us the counter-powers we need.  But no matter who gets to go and get their sweet repayment from that big mustard, remember, first thing is that we _ignore_ everyone else.  We don't split up; we don't get distracted.  We all bum rush the wizard, and we beat him like that meat-headed dingus has been beating us.  Then it's _his_ turn...."

 

Yeah.  I like this a lot.

I'm pretty sure the cleric's player will _hate_ it thought, but all for a good one-shot cause.

 

 

43 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

As to what the mage said, the team has a Mind Link so the statement was almost certainly over that and not spoken aloud.  Any news recording would show the vampires putting their hostages over the side, and the teleporter almost instantly getting them to safety.  So it's not going to look bad on the heroes. 

 

Be a shame if a well-respected and reliable high-powered telepath just happened to be nearby, wouldn't it?

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

I can't exactly make the players whose characters have CvKs step in, though I can ask them what they think of the brick's behavior and the mage's statement, and maybe get a dialogue going.

 

No; you can't.  But you _can_ do this.  You can show them something that sums it up so perfectly for me that I've kept this bookmark for years.  Show them this:

 

http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rpgs/newchampions_cvk.php

 

You tell them to read that-- or better, read it to them. Print it tape it to your screen.  Tuck it in your books in the Disadvantages section.  Never lose it.  Tell them that _this_ is what CVK means in your games, and if they really want that 15-pt bonus, then _that_ is how they are going to ask.  If they want that 25-pt bonus, then _that_ is how they are going to act.  Be completely clear that they don't _have_ to take that Disad, but if they do, then they know precisely what it means.  Going forward, at least in Superhero games, consider making it one of the campaign ground rules: everyone has it for the minimum value at least.  Or point out to them that the word "hero" is actually in the job title.  Act like it.

 

43 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

 

 

And in regards to that, well I just want to say that I don't know how to get rid of that.

 

 

 

Let us know how it turns out.

 

 

Duke

 

[steriaca]

"Glit Complex" for thoes five people who do not know, was a villain team designed and presented by Dennis Maloney in one of the earliest issues of the Adventures Club magazine. The group all used names starting with "Gold" (Goldbrick, Goldrush, and Goldmind), and were notoreous for having extremely low defenses and taking body damage from even the most harmless mental powers. They were designed to "teach a lesson" to players who toss about large dice without a second glance.

[dsatow]

Here's just some ideas that slipped in through my head at your scenario.  Sorry if some of these have been mentioned.  I was reading the thread really fast before leaving from work.

 

1) Croc, the mentalist died.  Having died at the hands of a superhero, he becomes a vengeful ghost.  Most supers in comics when they die but the death isn't plot driven get new powers or are somehow revived.  As a ghost, he's nearly unstoppable as he can be both intangible and invisible. Worse, he can't be killed or taken in unless the issue which binds him to this mortal plane is sundered (i.e. the murderous hero faces justice for his overly lethal use of force or MI is taken down).  Maybe croc is brought back as a cyborg ala robocop.  now he has bionics as well as mental powers.  Maybe the mutation he has kicks into overdrive to make him survive but it goes out of control and his body begins to absorb any local biological mass ala the Blob.

2) The Aquans may have been bad for MI but they have not really killed blue collar workers in the company, letting them go.  One of them who was protected by Croc and was told their justification in their action sees the hero ruthlessly kill stab Croc through the chest.  He begins to see the heroes as villains and creates an assassination group to take out heroes like him.  When he corners the hero, he'll gloat about why he's doing what he is doing.  If the hero kills him, any of the other members of his team will get others or the government to do the same.

3) MI likes the way the hero does business.  Soon they are asking him to take out other "villains" and his reputation grows with other civil mastermind villains.  Batman-esque heroes will soon be hunting him.

4) One of the villains is actually an undercover cop/super working for the U.S. Justice department to gather evidence to take down the supervillain team when he clashes with them.

[Mr. R]

8 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

They might even look at that as a good thing - let the impairment serve as a reminder to the criminals of the consequences of their actions.

 

One of the tipping points, to me, was last session when the heroes were fighting the vampires atop a 5-story tower of a local mansion.  Four of the vampire minions grabbed four enthralled young women and held them over the side of the tower, threatening to drop them.  The mage just shrugged and said, "A 5-story fall will hurt a lot, but it probably won't kill them.  I can just go down and heal them afterward."  Since the team teleporter immediately used a multiple attack to UAA teleport the women to safety, it quickly became a moot point, but it illustrates the players' attitudes.

 

3 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

As to what the mage said, the team has a Mind Link so the statement was almost certainly over that and not spoken aloud.  Any news recording would show the vampires putting their hostages over the side, and the teleporter almost instantly getting them to safety.  So it's not going to look bad on the heroes. 

 

I can't exactly make the players whose characters have CvKs step in, though I can ask them what they think of the brick's behavior and the mage's statement, and maybe get a dialogue going.

 

One of the overarching plots in the campaign involves the Empress of a Billion Dimensions trying to winnow down the number of supers on the campaign world, in preparation for an invasion.  I could tie that into the news items about mind controlled normals dressed as supervillains getting killed by superheroes -- make it all part of a plan to discredit superheroes to make her invasion easier.  She could have a psionic minion working at that, as well as on select government officials.  The son of the President (not Trump in my world) is leader of a White House sanctioned team called Executive Order, and there's no love between them and the PC hero team.  Having EO and the President riding the PC team could highlight some of their excesses. 

 

Many thanks to all for the food for thought.

 

 

 

 

That first statement looks like something the villains would say to the heroes as a threat (stop or we drop) and then his response.  Did he explicitly say it was over team Mind-link?  If not, then you got a quote said aloud by the PC.  Personally I have a fear of heights and hearing a hero say, "go ahead, we can heal them" is not going to endear me to the hero.  

 

Also, maybe you can do a Batman II (Penguin gets recorded) on make it that the Mind link is a broadcast to everyone courtesy of the EoaBD mentalist hacked into the team's mindlink.  (I heard you say that!  We all did!)