Dealing with Killer Characters

[csyphrett]

When I was running Domino City, the team had stirred up some problems. One of the plots I used was another hero had hit town and was making the home team look bad in every way.  he always arrived first to an emergency, cleared it, and had recordings of the team sent to the local news to show how bad they were at their jobs.

 

It took a couple of sessions for the two smartest players to realize they were being framed by an old enemy

CES

[Scott Ruggels]

7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

I know: I already said all I could say advice-wise; but I have a question for you, Sir:

 

What is this?  I have heard this reference a number of times on this board, and have absolutely no idea  what it is.

 

 

The Gilt Complex was a very early Adventurer's Club scenario, where there was a team of< I think four villains, some of them related, who all wore white costumes, and all their names were "Gold"  themed.  They were fairly effective as a team, but....

 

and here is the kicker,

They had NO RESISTANT DEFENSE<  Also their stats , other than the brick's strength, and their dex and  speeds, they all had Normal characteristics.  The last thirs of the article was about dealing with the consequences of the dead villains.  I actually played this scenario, unknowin, thinking that the theft in a Cold Depository was kind of  trite.

Well another player's character was the one that actually killed one of them with an Ice Blast. When the GM announced that  the female energy projector from the group dropped like a sack of potatoes, He cheered, and then the GM said, she's not moving, and there is a growing pool of blood around her.  My eyebrows went up at that one, but the ice elemental player, broke character and started complaining to the GM.  It looked like he was going to quit, as the character did have a CVK (As usual mine didn't but that particular character would go after the bricks and heaviest defense  characters ).  The two of them took the conversation to another room, for several minutes and there was a bit of shouting (We were all in high school at the time, so maturity wasn't all there, yet), and then it got quiet.  The two of them exited the room, and the GM sat down, and the ice elemental sat down, stone faced. We resumed play, and the villain team came apart once they saw their comrade down, and lost all coordination and did blind fury attacks, which against my character did little (A Famous Powered Armored suit), but cause our team to have to jump around to avoid them. The Ice elemental  wasn't doing anything, except staring at the body, while the rest of us covered for him to make sure the villains' would not exact revenge.   Eventually the situation was resolved, and the villains were downed due to broken limbs and other body damage, but not dead. At that point, the Ice elemental looked wildly around, noticing the fight had ended, and the character screamed and jetted away. And that was the last we saw of that character.  The player  came back with a new character, but his sense of trust with that GM was more than a little dented and he often found other things to do, on the days when we played. He was a good role player, though.

I understood where the player was coming from, as it was kind of a dirty trick to put in paper tigers into a group where the caliber of  villains was pretty  consistent. I think the GM may have ran "The Gilt Complex", to trick >me< into doing something stupid, but  as I remember, in the scenario, there were a few innocents around, and I held back, as my attacks were pretty lethal, and the building ended up not being in great shape. After that, though, the GM never did anything like that again.  I do belive the article generated some  controversy at the time. (Aerly to mid 1980's)

[DShomshak]

In my Supermage campaign, one of the PCs started killing villains on the grounds that it stopped them from causing more harm later. The first time, the team split up and I had to juggle the plot a bit to bring them back together and arrange a bit of temporal jiggery-pokery so the PC could undo his earlier actions. The third or fourth time this happened, as best I recall the other players (through their characters) said firmly that this was Not Right At All. The offending player got the message and accepted the revelation that in fact he'd been playing the PC's evil twin that a mystic dimension had created: When they thought the evil twin got sucked back, it had actually been the original, and they were able to set things right. Fortunately, the player in question is somewhat self-aware and so is able to handle it when people point out he's being a jerk.

 

For Bolo's case, I think the best place to start might be to push the players on their characters' CvKs. If the "killer character" activity is unconscious, encouraging the other players to deal with it through roleplaying might help.

 

Likewise, if the players in question are not aware of their characters' ruthlessness, it might be enough to point out that this is not the game you wanted to run. Conveniently, you've set up a mentalist Master Villain who might have been subtly nudging the heroes to act in less than heroic ways... Giving a chance to provide some positive reinforcement when the PCs, remembering that they are supposed to be heroes, confront Master Control and thwart his evil scheme to manipulate them -- and finally put him in a prison he can't escape. Virtue triumphs, evil not only defeated but humiliated!

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

Scott gave an excellent summary of the Gilt Complex, and why I think the scenario was an extraordinarily bad suggestion.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Doc Democracy]

I think a killer player (it is often the player making decisions that might not be what the character, if it had real agency, would make) needs to have on-game incentives to behave.  Behaviour like this is often game driven rather than story or character driven and it needs game driven responses.

 

One thing players hate is if the GM picks on them.  Obviously the GM can be the biggest bully on the block as all the resources in the world are there to use against what is on the players character sheets and so it would be irresponsible for the GM to use those casually.  In this case, I think the world is designed to work against a killer player.  I would draw a line under past offences and state the core precepts of the campaign, most especially what the expectations are of superheroes - for example, they are vigilantes that are excused from the normal due process they might otherwise expect because they are heroic but if they deviate from that heroism, then they might expect the due weight of law enforcement to come after them.  If it is one of the group doing this, then the others may be tainted or expected not to interfere with law enforcement officers seeking to detain/question/arrest said offender.

 

I think I would also point out that if a player becomes known for being casually cruel, damaging or the killing kind, then villains, who are already breaking the law will focus on that hero in any combat.  I know that I would seek to take out the killer before thinking about other heroes that might only knock me out or retrain me.

 

In the face of repeated action of this kind, I think organisations like VIPER would work to set the hero up for a fall.  They would do whatever they could to get the hero to use his powers irresponsibly and have the result be the fatality of an innocent bystander, all filmed and delivered to the law as evidence of a crime.  So many ways for this to happen.  They would look for evidence of people being injured (and healed) to show the casual disregard for pain and suffering.  

 

While all this happens to the character, they are aimed specifically at the player.  

 

The final thing is to provide a way out.  Make sure that the player has an option (at any point in the process) to escape the process.  He might be visited by the Dr Strange equivalent to show him the error of his ways and allow him to go back and retrieve the situation (as a one-off deal).  Otherwise you might simply entrench the behaviour with the player doubling down in the face of nothing but bad futures.

 

Doc

[steriaca]

I agree that "Gilt Complex" is dirty pool. There are much better ways to real in the murder happy than a group of extreme glass cannon villains.

 

Public opinion via various media. Villains using more than standard force against the murder happy. Police withdrawing resources from the heroes. Various other stuff.

 

While the murder happy "hero" may not care that UNTIL won't share information with them, but the others might mind.

[steriaca]

Finally, before you even start with all of this, SET THE PLAYERS ASIDE AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE PROBLEM. Role-playing penalties should be the last resort. The players must understand your view, and how your going to make things harder on them if they don't stop there don't care attitude on using there powers at full power.

 

For example, the mage's healing spell might suddenly fail at key times, as the cosmic entity associated with it might think the mage is overusing that spell, causing all sorts of nasty things if it is continued to be used willy nilly. (One person healed might start to grow green tentacles and speak Cthulitc cause an edomite monster slipped through because of a dimensional break caused by the healing spell).

[death tribble]

23 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

Actually kinda-considering this option.  At least, in the form of, "maybe it's time to end this campaign."

 

Wait, did you mean the characters, or the players? 

The players first. Then the characters

[BoloOfEarth]

I think the first thing I'm going to do is have the head of the local PRIMUS base have a sit-down with the PCs and voice his concerns, both about the PC killing a supervillain as well as the heroes' general relaxed attitude on doing serious damage to foes, assuming they can simply heal the results afterward so it's "no harm, no foul."  Maybe have him give an example of Fleshtone torturing a PRIMUS agent, repeatedly healing the injuries so he could continue torturing the guy.  Does the fact that he left the guy whole afterward absolve him of the torture?  I think a good in-game discussion might be an interesting opportunity for roleplaying, while also getting my concerns across.

 

15 hours ago, dsatow said:

3) MI likes the way the hero does business.  Soon they are asking him to take out other "villains" and his reputation grows with other civil mastermind villains.  Batman-esque heroes will soon be hunting him.

 

I rather like this (though I'm pretty sure the player of the killer PC won't go along with taking out other villains at NPC request).  However:

1. The players know from a past campaign that Randall Montgomery is Master Control, though their current characters don't know.  So if Montgomery goes to the killer PC and says, "I really like the cut of your jib.  How about I covertly sponsor you to permanently take out some of those other Aquans..." (while secretly planning to video the killings to use against the PC later), this might be a wake-up call.
2. In the news item Randall Montgomery said, "Without the selfless acts of Just Cause, this plot would surely have come to fruition, with many killed in a nuclear fireball.  Rest assured, I will find a way to properly reward these heroes for leaping into the fray." With the player knowledge of who Randall really is, they immediately realized this was actually a threat being made against them.  So they're currently waiting for the other shoe to drop.
3. With (2) in mind, and assuming the PC says "no" in (1), Master Control could hire a supervillain team to do a non-lethal job in the PC's city, with Master Control hanging around invisible to hit the killer PC with a Mind Control to kill as many of the supervillains as possible, saying in the telepathic command that otherwise they'll just keep coming back committing crimes.  And since that PC has demonstrated he's not adverse to using lethal force against supervillains, I'd say that's at worst an EGO+10 level command.  By my calculation, on an average roll of Master Control's power, the PC would have an 8- Breakout roll.  I'd anticipate the other heroes stopping him once they know he's mind controlled, but just having the mind control work more easily may be eye-opening to them.

[death tribble]

Another scenario idea is this:-

Villains kill someone and make it look like the hero team did it. Now either the villains empower a relative/friend of the dead or someone else does in order to take revenge on those responsible.

So the heroes may have several problems.

1) Being hunted down by local enforcement officers to answer for the crime.

2) Being hunted down by vigilantes determined to bring the guilty team to justice.

3) The newly powered paranormal hunting the team, stalking first and then trying to kill them

4) Proving to the public that they did not do it.

5) Proving that the villains did it or bring them to justice.

 

And if the heroes get away with (1) then PRIMUS or  a hero team might be dispatched to bring them in. 

[DShomshak]

The nastiest -- but still, IMO, fair -- setup against a killer PC I've heard of comes from another campaign one of my players was in. (I wasn't there, so I'm getting this second-hand.) The PC was a super-patriot type who had an Enraged  triggered by disparagement of or hostility to America. So in circumstances where there are apparently no witnesses, a Middle Eastern bloke confronts the PC, saying "Death to America! Al-Qaeda will triumph over you decadent infidels!" Etc. etc. And the PC promptly killos him.

 

At which point, a man with a camcorder pops out from hiding and says, "Oh my God, what you did! That's horrible! But I got it all on camera and you're doing hard time for this, you murderous fraud!" Still apparently no other witnesses. So the PC kills this guy, too.

 

The third man, who has filmed both homicides, does not show himself. But the footage goes to the media.

 

Why this was fair, in a way that "The Gilt Complex" is not:

 

* It is done by an enemy of the PCs who has already been established as cunning and ruthless. (In this case, I think it was Al-Qaeda, given super-agents and established as an ongoing campaign villain group. But I could be wrong, and it doesn't really matter.)

 

* It uses aspects of character the player had already established for the character, both the Enraged and an above-the-law arrogance I was told was developed in play. So you can't say it was an arbitrary set-up by a dickish GM.

 

* And the latter part is most important. The first death was a consequence of giving the character a severe Disadvantage, which the PCs' enemies knew about. You want the points, you accept the complications. The second death wasn't dictated by dice rolls; the player could have chosen differently. It was clearly murder.

 

Now I wonder how the campaign dealt with the aftershocks of this situation. Next time I see the player, I'll have to ask.

 

Dean Shomshak

[BoloOfEarth]

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

The nastiest -- but still, IMO, fair -- setup against a killer PC I've heard of comes from another campaign one of my players was in.

 

Ouch!  Yeah, the second killing really hits that above-the-law arrogance right in the face. 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

2 hours ago, death tribble said:

Another scenario idea is this:-

Villains kill someone and make it look like the hero team did it.

 

The problem with this is that the players will totally look at themselves as faultless in this scenario, because they didn't actually do that particular crime.  It won't enter their minds that it's more believable to the authorities and the public that they did it because one of them has killed before.

 

Edit to add:  And yes, in retrospect I know that this isn't all that much different from Master Control mind controlling the hero to kill.  However, in that case I expect an argument from the player about calling it an EGO + 10 effect. 

[Christopher]

On 11/28/2018 at 6:22 PM, BoloOfEarth said:

What's worrying me is that some of the PCs seem to be getting more bloodthirsty, or at least unconcerned about causing major BODY damage.  Part of the problem is that I allowed the team mage to have a Healing spell (2d6), so they've started to figure it doesn't really matter if they do, say, 8 BODY damage to somebody.  All they need to do is call in the mage to "fix their mistake." 

  

Some of it, however, is them showing no restraint in their attacks.  For example, the team brick has a 3d6 HKA.  At first glance I didn't figure it was a major deal - not considering that he can put enough STR into it to do 6d6 HKA.  He used this on a mentalist villain (Croc, from the Aquans), and did 6 BODY past defenses.  Undeterred when I told him that, he followed it up with another 6d6 HKA to take Croc to negative BODY.  I'm pretty sure he'd have followed that up with a third one had Nereid not used a water portal to get Croc out of there.  And the player seemed unconcerned when the next-session's news said that he had killed Croc.  (Given the high amount of BODY damage done, I decided the Aquans - with no Healing powers - were unable to save him but didn't want to leave his body for MI to experiment upon.)

 

And yes, I realize that I failed in my job as GM by allowing the Healing spell and the potential-6d6 HKA in the first place.  But since they're in play, I'm trying to figure out what to do to rein this in.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 6:49 PM, BoloOfEarth said:

 

They might even look at that as a good thing - let the impairment serve as a reminder to the criminals of the consequences of their actions.

 

One of the tipping points, to me, was last session when the heroes were fighting the vampires atop a 5-story tower of a local mansion.  Four of the vampire minions grabbed four enthralled young women and held them over the side of the tower, threatening to drop them.  The mage just shrugged and said, "A 5-story fall will hurt a lot, but it probably won't kill them.  I can just go down and heal them afterward."  Since the team teleporter immediately used a multiple attack to UAA teleport the women to safety, it quickly became a moot point, but it illustrates the players' attitudes.

If powers like Heal and Teleport UAA are the issues, you have to talk with your players how they are - and then take them away.

Or next time have the villain put explosive collars onto them, having heard of this. But of course, that is only another arms-race that you can not win without a "no, it would break the game" at some point.

 

Of course that asumes them doing the "hold them over the edge" was instead of a serious combat challenge. I would feel pretty miffed (and would try to get out of it) if that would happen to me on top of a combat challenge.

 

One of the biggest challenges as GM is to admit a mistake and correct it. But not correcting it will only add more stuff sunken to the "sunk cost falacy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

In the end, the your time as a Roleplayer in general and your time with these Players in this campaign is a limited resource. Something neither side wants to squander. And we can not do more then tell you to "do it" from the sidelines.

[BoloOfEarth]

1 hour ago, Christopher said:

If powers like Heal and Teleport UAA are the issues, you have to talk with your players how they are - and then take them away.

??? I don't see where I said Teleport UAA was an issue.  In fact, that was exactly the solution the situation needed.  And since the teleporter spent 4x the END to do it 4 times to get all the hostages to safety at once, IMO it was a fairly heroic action. 

 

And Healing isn't the issue in and of itself.  I generally like how the PC uses it - for instance, he once traveled to another state to heal the injuries of an NPC hero the PCs worked with after reading about said injuries in the news.  But I'm noticing that the ease of healing injuries has given the players a very relaxed attitude toward BODY damage, both to their own characters as well as what they might do to others.

[steriaca]

18 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

??? I don't see where I said Teleport UAA was an issue.  In fact, that was exactly the solution the situation needed.  And since the teleporter spent 4x the END to do it 4 times to get all the hostages to safety at once, IMO it was a fairly heroic action. 

 

And Healing isn't the issue in and of itself.  I generally like how the PC uses it - for instance, he once traveled to another state to heal the injuries of an NPC hero the PCs worked with after reading about said injuries in the news.  But I'm noticing that the ease of healing injuries has given the players a very relaxed attitude toward BODY damage, both to their own characters as well as what they might do to others.

I wouldn't truly take the healing magic away. Only add side effects to it for role playing purposes. Again, overuse causes weaknesses in the dimensional barriers which would cause problems till solved...

[sentry0]

3 hours ago, steriaca said:

I wouldn't truly take the healing magic away. Only add side effects to it for role playing purposes. Again, overuse causes weaknesses in the dimensional barriers which would cause problems till solved...

 

You could also consider Charges as an option.  Not that I think the root issue here is the power, seems like a player mentality issue.

[archer]

On 11/28/2018 at 12:54 PM, BoloOfEarth said:

 

The situation when Croc was killed involved the Aquans taking over an offshore Montgomery International aquatic research station, which was actually a trap set by Master Control to take out the Aquans.  He had designed the station's nuclear reactor specifically so it could work as an ersatz nuke bomb, but the PC heroes figured it out and kept it from going off.  However, Master Control managed to blame the changes to the reactor design on the Aquans, in particular saying that their mentalist (Croc) psionically influenced the MI engineers and government inspectors to approve the faulty design (when it was actually Master Control who used his mental powers to do that).

 

This makes it difficult to inflame the public against the hero for killing Croc, since Master Control had already set things up to make Croc look like a would-be mass murderer.  And it's in Master Control's / Randall Montgomery's best interest to make the hero look like, well, a hero for doing what he did. 

 

Hmmmm... though a crusading investigative reporter might uncover the truth...  I'll have to think on that one. 

 

Having trouble organizing my thoughts so this might be a bit disjointed.

 

1) Sounds like to me that the villain group would have the motive to contact a crusading reporter and show him the proof. Allow the reporter to bring a cameraman and his own doctor to verify that it's a dead human body and not a fake.

 

Personally if something like that happened, I think local and national news would be all over it. The "hero" would get invitations to talk shows all over the country to appear and defend his actions. If he shows up, he gets savaged for his indefensible actions. If he refuses to show up, the host will point out his cowardice in refusing to appear then savage his indefensible actions.

 

Racially-motivated hate groups would be praising the hero's actions. Civil rights groups would be calling him a human weapon and be demanding that the government do something about superpowered murderers running around slaughtering people while pretending to be heroes. Children should be running up to him on the streets (in front of cameras) saying when they grow up that they want to kill bad guys just like he does.

 

Public appearances which have been scheduled for the team would probably be cancelled. If the team has a fan club, it might disband or at least publicly disavow the killing. If the team has donated money to a charity, the money might be publicly returned with maximum publicity. New invitations to speak at Purity League events would be extended.

 

2) Aside from that, have the police pick up the "hero" for questioning. They can hold him for a certain amount of time without pressing charges (usually something like 72 hours). If the guy insists the police release him or charge him, charge him with assault and battery, then bring in the whole team for questioning.

 

If the "hero" resists or avoids the local police picking him up in the first place, have a well-known out of town superteam show up to back up the PRIMUS team which comes after him.

 

3) As for the player's attitude, I freely admit that I don't worry about how much BODY damage I do in the first attack against a tough villain I'm familiar with. But I also don't usually play characters who have killing attacks and I certainly wouldn't be using them full power on a character who is clearly close to death already unless there are zero alternatives.

 

4) As for how to address this out-of-game, if it were my game, I'd explain to the players whose characters have a "Strong Code vs Killing" that part of that limitation, in my opinion, is to not be standing idly by while you know someone nearby is being intentionally killed by your teammate. If the limitation isn't fully limiting the character, it's not worth the full amount of points so they owe me, the GM, some points back...or they need to correct their behavior in-game.

 

5) The player who is the problem isn't taking subtle hints so don't be subtle. Tell him that behavior isn't acceptable as part of your game. Go ahead and play through the consequences of his actions in-game. If he appears to be straightening up, fine. If he appears to be unrepentant, toss his character in jail forever or have the character be killed by a vigilante hero...and be clear up-front when talking to the player that those are possible options you have considered to deal with the situation but you'd prefer he not take it that far.

 

6) Clearly the large HKA is part of the problem. Offer to work out an in-game solution to get rid of the offending power and replace it with something else. The villain team seems to be staffed with scientists so perhaps they capture and experiment on the hero with some expected or unexpected results.

 

7) No experienced character except psychopaths should be flippant about someone dropping off of a 5 story building.

 

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930020462.pdf

 

Page 36 of this NASA document shows you leave the "zone of marginal survival" and enter the "fatal zone" at a speed of about 17 meters per second, which corresponds to dropping from a height of roughly 12 meters

 

This site shows a typical story for a residential building as being 3.1 meters. I would expect a "mansion" to have higher ceilings but we can go from what's typical.

 

http://www.ctbuh.org/HighRiseInfo/TallestDatabase/Criteria/HeightCalculator/tabid/1007/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

 

5 stories times 3.1 meters each would show the drop height for the victims as 15.5 meters while NASA says the drop is expected to be fatal after 12.

 

(I seem to have accidentally erased a paragraph somewhere in #7...something about having the player make an intelligence roll and if he blows it badly, tell him that his character thinks the idea of letting the people drop because they'll survive is a perfectly wonderful idea.)

 

 

[Tech]

Talk to the players first. Pulling off a "Gilt Complex", having the public go bonkers over their reactions, threatening them with jail, etc without talking to them first may be logical in play but we aren't talking about a tv series. We're talking about players who may perceive any of those as 'killer dm' mentality and react even more harshly. Talk to them - they need to know how their character interactions in the campaign is skewed.

 

As for the arrogant "they'll survive then afterwards I'll heal them", they're normals. If you want, a bonk on the head from a club and they're a goner. Fall down on the sidewalk, flattened. Clipped by a car, street pizza. You get the idea. Normals can be surprisingly durable, or incredibly easy to perish. 6d6 from falling damage? Comes out automatically to 12 Body - 2 PD = 10 Body taken - they're a goner.

 

If things cannot be comfortably worked out between you & the players, it's time to have a season FINAL episode.

[BoloOfEarth]

Sentry0:  The Healing is on 8 Charges, but is AoE.  And the players' meta-gaming thinking is such that unless someone has lost 3/4 of their BODY, they typically continue with the fight, then gather all wounded together and do 1 or 2 Heals.  Most super-fights are done in a Turn or two, and the Bleeding rules are such that, unless someone is very negative BODY, they're not going to bleed to death in 2 Turns.  (I actually rolled it out with Croc, who was negative BODY, and it took him well over a dozen Turns to die.)

 

Maybe what I should do is have the hero do an appearance at the local hospital to heal some of the kids there.  (He's done this before.)  Find out how many Charges he wants to use there -- I'd bet he'll keep 2 in reserve -- and then have an ER situation where he's pressured to use one of those Charges.  Then when the super-fight happens, they no longer have their big ol' safety net.

 

Archer:

 

1) I hadn't considered the villain group bringing in a reporter to present their side, and a doctor to verify Croc is dead.  That's an excellent idea, since the players are doubtful he is truly dead.  (This is a comic-book game after all.)

 

And I like the idea of some kid telling him that he wants to grow up and kill bad guys like the hero.  I'll have to write that into the next session's notes.

 

However, since the character is a mutant himself, I doubt the Purity League would want him to speak at their next convention. 

 

2) I'm planning to have PRIMUS revoke his hero sanction and have a full investigation of his actions this next session.

 

3) Yeah, I'm not upset about the first killing attack.  The player had no way to know it would be that effective; the team's past non-killing attacks against Croc had revealed that Croc had high PD.  The player assumed the rPD was similarly high.  What irritated me is that, having been told that the first HKA did high BODY past defenses, he repeated the same attack regardless of the consequences.

 

4 & 5) Agreed (though killing the killer PC wouldn't be easy nor desirable IMO).

 

6)  There's actually a separate villain team (the Heavy Metals) who are strong in sciences and have experimented with the Dynatron (shameless plug for Dean Shomshak's excellent Shared Origins product) for granting superpowers - and it has the potential to remove powers. 

 

7)  Unfortunately, the Hero rules on Falling don't quite match up with that.  A 15m fall comes to 7-8d6.  An Average normal with 2 PD and 8 BODY might be negative BODY, depending on the roll, but an average roll has them at 2-3 BODY remaining.  Hurt pretty bad, but a good dose of Healing should take care of that.

[BoloOfEarth]

9 minutes ago, Tech said:

Talk to the players first. Pulling off a "Gilt Complex", having the public go bonkers over their reactions, threatening them with jail, etc without talking to them first may be logical in play but we aren't talking about a tv series. We're talking about players who may perceive any of those as 'killer dm' mentality and react even more harshly. Talk to them - they need to know how their character interactions in the campaign is skewed.

 

As for the arrogant "they'll survive then afterwards I'll heal them", they're normals. If you want, a bonk on the head from a club and they're a goner. Fall down on the sidewalk, flattened. Clipped by a car, street pizza. You get the idea. Normals can be surprisingly durable, or incredibly easy to perish. 6d6 from falling damage? Comes out automatically to 12 Body - 2 PD = 10 Body taken - they're a goner.

 

If things cannot be comfortably worked out between you & the players, it's time to have a season FINAL episode.

 

Yeah, I think a good talk is in order.  I think I'm going with a combo of in-game (the PRIMUS base commander, with whom they have a decent rapport) with OOC comments by me thrown in. 

 

As to 6d6 falling damage, that's only 12 BODY if all 6's are rolled.  An average roll is 6 BODY. 

[BoloOfEarth]

10 hours ago, steriaca said:

I wouldn't truly take the healing magic away. Only add side effects to it for role playing purposes. Again, overuse causes weaknesses in the dimensional barriers which would cause problems till solved...

 

I'm not a fan of altering character powers on the sly, especially to add Limitations for which they're not getting any point benefit.  After all, I don't add an Activation roll on the mentalist's telekinetic flight, or Side Effects on the teleporter's NND attack.  Or the villains' powers either, for that matter, unless an Activation roll or Side Effect is part of the original writeup.

[Christopher]

11 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

??? I don't see where I said Teleport UAA was an issue.  In fact, that was exactly the solution the situation needed.  And since the teleporter spent 4x the END to do it 4 times to get all the hostages to safety at once, IMO it was a fairly heroic action.  

Any ability that allows them to utterly and effortlessly sidestep the story you had planned is an issue.

UBO is noted for it's problem potential. UAA even more so. And with Movement Powers, UAA it is ridiculously high.

 

There is no shame in admitting it was a bad idea to allow that power. There is shame in not admitting it however.

 

11 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

And Healing isn't the issue in and of itself.  I generally like how the PC uses it - for instance, he once traveled to another state to heal the injuries of an NPC hero the PCs worked with after reading about said injuries in the news.  But I'm noticing that the ease of healing injuries has given the players a very relaxed attitude toward BODY damage, both to their own characters as well as what they might do to others.

You got one cases on the Positive side of allowing healing.

And literally this thread on the negative side of allowing healing.

 

You yourself mentioned - again - that the avalibiltiy of healing might cause the lax attitude towards BODY damage.  It is a solid asumption. Something I as a player can totally say "jupp, propably".

[Greywind]

Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!

[Tech]

Bolo, my point about the 6d6 = 12 body is you showing how even something that heroes might shrug off can be lethal to normals. I know of real cases where someone fell onto the ground and died (much less falling 5 (?) stories in a game). Most heroes can take hits that would injure even agents, normals aren't even that.

Let us know how the 'talk' goes.