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Power that can be damaged

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I'm thinking of someone who can have their power damaged but how to do it? Think of the villain in the movie "Big Hero 6". (If you haven't seen it, watch it; it's surprisingly enjoyable.)

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17 minutes ago, Tech said:

I'm thinking of someone who can have their power damaged but how to do it? Think of the villain in the movie "Big Hero 6". (If you haven't seen it, watch it; it's surprisingly enjoyable.)

 

If you have a power, I can damage it. All I need is an applicable Drain.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And an undamaged palindromedary

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Never seen Big Hero 6.

Thus, for me to respond more aptly than I am about it, it would help to know the special effect of the power and, thus, why you think the power should be able to be damaged.  For example, is the power Flight and the special effect wings?  If so, then use of the Physical Manifestation [-1/4] limitation on Flight would make the Flight able to be damaged.  The limitation's write-up/text details how that works; check it out and see if it might be what you're looking for.  (Restainable is also one that makes sense for Flight via wings, but this deals more with entangles/grabs than actual damage...)

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3 hours ago, Tech said:

I'm thinking of someone who can have their power damaged but how to do it? Think of the villain in the movie "Big Hero 6". (If you haven't seen it, watch it; it's surprisingly enjoyable.)

The villain had a bunch of microbots that he controlled with a neural interface, built into a face mask. He was defeated because enemies attacked the nanobots allowing them to tbe sucked into a portal.

 

Personally I do not think that case does not need a writeup.

This trick only worked because of the environmental conditions of the final bossfight. Basically there was a effect like a Control Environment Telekinesis or Wind in effect, pulling everything loose into another dimension. Loose microbots were vulnerable to that, wich is why to approach of cutting stuff off worked. In any other condition, attacking the microbots would have not really done anything.

 

It would be the same as attacking an insect swarm in teh same condition: As long as they held onto each other (and thus were anchored to the ground), they could prevent being sucked in. Without that, they could not.

 

If I had to build that:
Desolid

Attacks that affect the Physical world (+2)

At this point that would simply belong to the "mandatory weakness" of Desolid.

 

I think one of the APG's had proper swarm rules.

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If the cahracter was the swarm (a insect hivemind consisting of hundreds or thousands of small insects), then Desolid + Affects Physical Space would be the way. Indeed those cases are literally what I thought it up for.

The mandatory weakness would be "anything that works on a swarm". Mostly that means Area of Effect attacks. But some single target attacks like Insecticide vs Insects or Electricity vs Nano-/Microbots might also work.

 

Hower this is not such a case. He was a normal, tangible person that controlled the botswarm with his mind. The botswarm was propably blast, telekinesis and "stuff you find in a GL build" powers with some limitations (can not go to far away from the ground). Indeed Comparing it to a Lantern Construct might be the best way to get a grasp on it.

As with a GL's constructs, they are not normally attackable (unless they are stuff like Barriers. Or the rules for beam struggles are in use). However the environmental conditions of the final fight exposed a vulnerability inherent in them. It can be a -0 or -1/4 limitation, depending on how often those conditions happen in the real world. I mean if strong winds could have similar effects, that would be a relevant limitation.

 

As for the scenes in question:

 

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hmm. As previously said, you need an idea to properly model things but there will be many different ways to build stuff that can be degraded.

 

You could use the focus rules and degrade the power proportionately as the focus is damaged. You could also limit the power based on how much damage has been inflicted on the hero during a fight. The power might have a base 8D6 damage+2D6 until 20 BODY damage received before defences+2D6 until 40 BODY+2D6 until 60 BODY etc.

 

Doc

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Maybe rather then microbot clouds, you meant something closer to the usual ice character? If so let us look at this scene:

 

 

Breaking the Manhunter out of the ice is odd. It looks like entangle, but MM has Desolid powers and Superstrenght. So escaping should have been easy for him, especially if flash could break it. He also did not participate in the combat later. So maybe he was incapacitated, with the iceblock being a special effect and flash breaking him out being how he "helped regain consciousness".

 

Now later the Iceramp? That is Material Manifestation. A Textbook case even. If it is actually worth a limitation depends on how difficulty it was for her to re-enable it. Wich we nevere saw, as she was knocked out by Flash's NDD/Telekinetic Choke attack.

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Drain isn't the effect I want. What I'm looking for is more like Doc D's example, something that CAN be damaged by a Blast, KA, Martial Strike, etc. I even thought about Summon (unique creature), which I'm beginning to think is a possibility: multiple limbs with a high SPD would give the effect.

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I just had a thought.  What if, any attack made effects the character as if an equivalent drain was made on the power.  So if a 12D6 EB was fired at the character the power would suffer a 12 DC drain on the power??  That is a substantial limitation to a power I think.  Perhaps a more limited version of this limitation might do what you need...


Doc

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14 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

I just had a thought.  What if, any attack made effects the character as if an equivalent drain was made on the power.  So if a 12D6 EB was fired at the character the power would suffer a 12 DC drain on the power??  That is a substantial limitation to a power I think.  Perhaps a more limited version of this limitation might do what you need...


Doc

I think we have the option to make a Drain as a Complication. "Vulnerable Power: Drain on taking damage" would be possible. As a really remote option.

 

I agree, we need a better handle on what the limitation is supposed to be. Particular if it is a 24/7 destructability. Or just something that only worked in that one Combat, because there was a 2G portal pulling everything seperated in.

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1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

Tech, you want to give us your verbal description (flavour text) of the power?  It would help us to come to a clearer idea of what the power needs...

 

Doc

 

Doc, you are quite right! My apologies to all; I'm not feeling my best the past few days and my concentration is not the best.

 

Borrowing the movie villain concept, the villain has like, a million, little microbots as Christopher nicely mentioned. Now, modifying it for my concept as such, the microbots can do any physical attack or action he can think of: create a large fist (of bots), an avalanche (of bots), sharp spears, attack multiple people at the same time, create a platform to walk on and so on. All attacks would be physical due to them actually being microbots, and are generally large in nature (no pencil-sized attacks, more like a tree-trunk size or pick-up-truck sized attacks).

 

I'd like the heroes to be able to block attacks, such as with a Barrier. The heroes can target the attacking microbot onslaught (such as a big fist) to 'destroy' the attack. As each hero keeps blasting away, there are less & less microbots to attack the heroes with, eventually with no more to attack the heroes.

 

I hope that helps clarify things but probably not much.

 

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I think I posted a character based on a person able to summon myriads of alternate selves from the multiverse (the Madding Crowd).

 

I built this by buying lots of BODY and not a lot of resistant defence.  Her powers waned as she took BODY, the effects of which were versions of herself being killed and fading out of existence (it was NOT a four colour campaign).  I think this concept would also work in this instance, damage burning away BODY and diminishing the efficacy of powers.  For Crowd she bought some resistant defence that only worked when she had less than 11 BODY.  

 

Doc

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15 hours ago, Tech said:

 

Doc, you are quite right! My apologies to all; I'm not feeling my best the past few days and my concentration is not the best.

 

Borrowing the movie villain concept, the villain has like, a million, little microbots as Christopher nicely mentioned. Now, modifying it for my concept as such, the microbots can do any physical attack or action he can think of: create a large fist (of bots), an avalanche (of bots), sharp spears, attack multiple people at the same time, create a platform to walk on and so on. All attacks would be physical due to them actually being microbots, and are generally large in nature (no pencil-sized attacks, more like a tree-trunk size or pick-up-truck sized attacks).

 

I'd like the heroes to be able to block attacks, such as with a Barrier. The heroes can target the attacking microbot onslaught (such as a big fist) to 'destroy' the attack. As each hero keeps blasting away, there are less & less microbots to attack the heroes with, eventually with no more to attack the heroes.

 

I hope that helps clarify things but probably not much.

 

 

Well, it sounds to me like this is a VPP.  I would be inclined to limit the VPP with physical manifestation as well as the powers inside it, as powers are attacked instead of defended, the VPP itself begins to ‘take damage’ and limit what can be done power-wise as the pool shrinks.  What would be missing is a idea of how the pool might heal.  If this is a player, you need a healing mechanism, possibly along the lines of an endurance battery.  If it is a villain, I would make it dependent on access to a type of location where the bots could be manufactured and renewed.

 

Doc 

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21 hours ago, Tech said:

Borrowing the movie villain concept, the villain has like, a million, little microbots as Christopher nicely mentioned. Now, modifying it for my concept as such, the microbots can do any physical attack or action he can think of: create a large fist (of bots), an avalanche (of bots), sharp spears, attack multiple people at the same time, create a platform to walk on and so on. All attacks would be physical due to them actually being microbots, and are generally large in nature (no pencil-sized attacks, more like a tree-trunk size or pick-up-truck sized attacks).

I want to point out again:

The that Microbots were attackable at all was a case only due to the environmental condition (strong gravitational force sucking them in if seperated from the main mass). Attacking the power was the way to exploit that weaknes.

In 99% of all combat scenarios, the microbots would not have been attackable. They would have been as attackable as Green Lanterns force blast.

Powers like Entangle and Barrier are inherently attackable.

Telekinetic Grab is indirectly attackable (STR contest)

 

Maybe I should give you a Hero play by play of the Hero 6 fight?

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27 minutes ago, Christopher said:

I want to point out again:

The that Microbots were attackable at all was a case only due to the environmental condition (strong gravitational force sucking them in if seperated from the main mass). Attacking the power was the way to exploit that weaknes.

In 99% of all combat scenarios, the microbots would not have been attackable. They would have been as attackable as Green Lanterns force blast.

Powers like Entangle and Barrier are inherently attackable.

Telekinetic Grab is indirectly attackable (STR contest)

 

Maybe I should give you a Hero play by play of the Hero 6 fight?

 

Based on your last statement, there's no need for a rude response. 

 

I've seen the movie more than once. I'm trying to build a supervillain based on the villain of the movie; not a copy. I'm trying to build powers that CAN be attackable, regardless of the movie. I'm well aware about Entangle, Barrier and Grab - it's Blast (for example) that cannot. Why not just say the Blast could be Missile Deflected?

 

I guess I'll go with Doc D's suggestion or go with a special Summon.

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On 12/5/2018 at 12:05 PM, Tech said:

I'm thinking of someone who can have their power damaged but how to do it? Think of the villain in the movie "Big Hero 6". (If you haven't seen it, watch it; it's surprisingly enjoyable.)

Quick answer (and I skipped all the other posts), physical manifestation I believe is designed for that.

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Keep it simple.  Using the BH6 villain example:

 

The Power was not "a bajillion microbots." 

 

The Power was Telekenisis.  Well, primarily TK.  There was some Running, Entangle, a couple other things, but for the most part, the Power was Telekinesis. 

 

The _Focus_ was "a bajillion microbots." 

 

There were no fancy super-exposition reasons for the power being "damaged" in the movie.  The _Focus_ was being attacked directly, and damaged as a result. 

 

There have been rules for that for a couple of editions. 

 

Without any intentions of sounding rude or insulting, a staggering amount of the "new stuff" of the last couple of editions (not all of it, of course) is little more than way over-thinking what it is you want to do. 

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On 12/7/2018 at 5:12 PM, Tech said:

Based on your last statement, there's no need for a rude response. 

I was not trying to sound rude. Like at all. So I am unsure how you got that.

 

On 12/7/2018 at 5:12 PM, Tech said:

I've seen the movie more than once. I'm trying to build a supervillain based on the villain of the movie; not a copy. I'm trying to build powers that CAN be attackable, regardless of the movie. I'm well aware about Entangle, Barrier and Grab - it's Blast (for example) that cannot. Why not just say the Blast could be Missile Deflected? 

Of course blast can be Missile Deflected/Reflected. But Missile deflection is a seperate power with considerable extra amount of requirements on the characater using it.

But maybe it is unessesary because what you asumed was "Blast being missile defelcted" was just a special effect for "making your block roll"? There are a lot of odd rules/optional rules.

 

9 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

The _Focus_ was "a bajillion microbots." 

 

There were no fancy super-exposition reasons for the power being "damaged" in the movie.  The _Focus_ was being attacked directly, and damaged as a result. 

 

There have been rules for that for a couple of editions. 

The thing is that without AoE (wich none of them had in sufficient power), that focus was not attackable. And even with AoE attacks would normally have just _dispersed_ the focus, not damage it.

Each Microbot was able to move on it's own along any surface, same way a human can. So rejoining the swarm would not have been difficulty for them. Only the portal resulted in the damage being permanent.

And most of the attacks against it, were not AoE attacks anyway. So they damage despite not normally being able to do so.

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At some point he caught one and put it in a jar.  Not crushing it or disassembling it was his own decision, but the thing certainly wasn't above being damaged.  Even the villain admitted needing lots and lots of them as some sort of ensuring that his master plan would work. 

 

 

We're the microbots in some way impervious to damage? 

 

In the movie's script, they were dealt with by usung a large scale vacuum: the AOE attack you mention. 

 

Similarly, I do not have to punch a villain; I can choose to use Entangle, which will remove him from the fight.  I am still attacking the villain. 

 

I choose to use Transdimensional Hooverizing on themicrobots instead of Billion Roach Boot Stomp. 

 

I am still attacking the Focus. 

 

 

 

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Christopher, we have different points-of-views and we're not finding a point of agreement, so let's agree to disagree on this. I talked the power over with a friend and decided to go with Summon. However, I'm curious, how would you build the guy?

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2 hours ago, Tech said:

Christopher, we have different points-of-views and we're not finding a point of agreement, so let's agree to disagree on this. I talked the power over with a friend and decided to go with Summon. However, I'm curious, how would you build the guy?

As I would build a green Latern:
Telekinesis

Ranged Attacks

Entangles, but with needs concentration

In am unsure about barriers

Some from of stretching

 

With a limitation "Microbot Swarm", -1/4 tops. The conditions where this is exploitable seem rare.

 

As most main villains that had to fight an entire team of heroes, he seemed a likely candidate for extra SPD, Damage reduction and the like. The usual "I need to challenge a superteam" stats.

 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Even the villain admitted needing lots and lots of them as some sort of ensuring that his master plan would work.  

The bulk of them was tied up just holding up the portal. And collapesed the moment he lost the neural interface.

He propably could not go for stealth (as in the Police does not believe Hiro) with that many, as anybody should have been able to see him.

 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

In the movie's script, they were dealt with by usung a large scale vacuum: the AOE attack you mention. 

That is not really a attack. More like a environmental effect. That the villain himself brought there.

 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

At some point he caught one and put it in a jar.  Not crushing it or disassembling it was his own decision, but the thing certainly wasn't above being damaged.

The same applies to controlling swarms of bugs (instead of swarms of bots). In both case most attacks will kill 1-5 units, but do no damage against the whole swarm.

 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Similarly, I do not have to punch a villain; I can choose to use Entangle, which will remove him from the fight.  I am still attacking the villain.  

That would not have worked here, as he controlled hte bugs with his mind. No gesture limitation, no Entangle or Grab would work.

 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I choose to use Transdimensional Hooverizing on themicrobots instead of Billion Roach Boot Stomp

  

I am still attacking the Focus. 

I am not even sure what you tried to say here.

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Sorry about that, Christopher.  Your English is so extremely fluent that it is easy for me to forget that it is not your first language.  I appologize for creating confusion. 

 

Suffice it to say that I was re-stating my position that the climax of the movie was the heroes destroying the focus, even if they weren't using conventional "smash the target" attacks to do it. 

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18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Sorry about that, Christopher.  Your English is so extremely fluent that it is easy for me to forget that it is not your first language.  I appologize for creating confusion. 

 

Suffice it to say that I was re-stating my position that the climax of the movie was the heroes destroying the focus, even if they weren't using conventional "smash the target" attacks to do it

Generally I agree that the focus rules would be a decent fit. If it was not for the fact that on average, the Focus is de-facto affected by the Swarm variant of Desolidificaiton. Or the special swarm rules (I heard they exist in Ultimate Mosnter or so). But I just got an idea I have to double check.

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