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Help with first character?


Ninja

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57 minutes ago, Ninja said:

Oh, also as a curiosity, if I wanted to I could put my increased strength, speed, defenses etc into a unified power, and call it like enhanced mutant physiology, and get back 1/4 points?  

 

Just remember that by using that limitation you are telling the GM that this should be an issue your character will have to deal with.  If someone hits you with a strength drain, then every power that you have unified gets a similar size drain.  If you lose 15 STR, you will also lose 15 active points of your speed, defences etc at the same time.  Is that something you want to happen, because it will...every few sessions.

 

Doc

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On 12/10/2018 at 6:42 PM, Doc Democracy said:

 

Just remember that by using that limitation you are telling the GM that this should be an issue your character will have to deal with.  If someone hits you with a strength drain, then every power that you have unified gets a similar size drain.  If you lose 15 STR, you will also lose 15 active points of your speed, defences etc at the same time.  Is that something you want to happen, because it will...every few sessions. 

 

Doc

I just said so on another thead, but I think the idea behind such limitations is:

- You build the characters powers to your satisfaction

- you apply the limitation

- you use the free points to buy stuff you can use when the limitation is in effect.

 

Personally I never managed to do that and always fell in the trap of trying to cram more powers with the same limitations onto my sheets.

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Unified Power is basically the idea that powers actually one power.   Doing it with stats can be dangerous especially if apply it to all your stats.  Like Doc Democracy said any drain on any power is a drain on all powers.  

 

If you really want to put a limitation on your stats a better choice would be only in Hero ID, or even a focus.     

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9 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Unified Power is basically the idea that powers actually one power.   Doing it with stats can be dangerous especially if apply it to all your stats.  Like Doc Democracy said any drain on any power is a drain on all powers.  

 

If you really want to put a limitation on your stats a better choice would be only in Hero ID, or even a focus.      

In particular this limitation is a replacement for the "Elemental Controls" wich were a 3rd Framework option in 5E and earlier.

Stuff like "Kryptonian Powers, -1/4" with enemies building powers to "Drain Kryptonian Powers". Or even stuff like "Physical Complication: Red Sunlight causes drain on Kryptonian powers"

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On 12/10/2018 at 10:10 AM, Ninja said:

Ok I think I’m zeroing in on this.  Say I go:

 

Str 40; Dex 23; Con 25; Int 18; Ego 18; Pre 18; OCV 8; DCV 8; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 232

 

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

 

Skills: Stealth 3; Analyze fighting style 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; Conversation 3; Persuasion 3; Climbing 3; English 4

 

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Killing strike 4; Martial strike 4; Martial dodge 4; +4combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 20; passing strike 5; leg sweep 3; Martial throw 4

Total skills 77

 

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mental defense 10; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8

Cost: 71

 

Total points: 380

 

 

That leaves me 20 points to buy a “Ninjitsu” multipower.  Now if I’m understanding this right, I can use limitations to add more points?  So say I take Restrainable -1/2; that means I can’t switch powers if I’m restrained,  but now I have a 40 point multipower pool.  Then as I gain more CP I can add powers to it for like 1-4 points after I divide the cost by 10?  And if I can think up one more limitation I can get that pool to 60 points?

 

I might need to change my skills around a bit I don’t know if they fairly reflect a normal persons expertise, I may be cheating.

 

Also, my Martial arts combat skill levels, +4, they won’t apply if I use an action not in my martial arts, like a normal throw or grab right?

 

Howd I do?

 

From the good start on a build which you have at this point, you get into a lot of personal preference...so I'll just express some personal preferences and you can take them for what you will.

 

I'm not really seeing what the 18 EGO is getting you unless you are planning on the character having some crippling psychological complications which you are going to need to overcome every session. :) I usually don't buy it up that high unless it's for a mentalist.

 

I'd consider buying Defense Maneuver I  (3 points: no attacker is considered to be attacking from behind) and Defense Maneuver II (2 points: eliminates multiple attacker bonus for attackers the character perceives) since, during action, you're going to be groundbound and in hand-to-hand combat much more often than not. You don't want to be swarmed effectively or be easily ambushed.

 

Considering your high STR, a 1d6 Killing Strike isn't going to mean much to your character and I think you'd end up never using it. I'd much prefer to put those points toward a Defensive Strike which is going to be useful basically any time your character is slugging it out toe-to-toe. I've played high STR characters without much beyond Martial Dodge, Defensive Strike, Martial Strike, and Legsweep and have been perfectly fine (i.e. those being the core Martial arts maneuvers I end up using frequently and the rest are window dressing which comes in handy on the rare occasion).

 

Instead of paying 8 each for Running and Leaping, you could put them into a multipower. For example:

 

8 Multipower - Try Keeping Up With Me (8 active points)

1u Running +8

1u Leaping +16

 

That takes your cost down from 16 to 10. You could take those points and spend them elsewhere or you could increase the size of the multipower, increase the number of movement power slots, and/or play with some advantages. For example for 15 points you could get:

 

12 Multipower - Try Keeping Up With Me (12 active points)

1u Running +8 (20 total) (0 END cost on total running +1/2)

1u Leaping +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total leaping +1/2)

1u Swimming +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total swimming +1/2)

 

In that example, you'd be saving a point, adding Swimming, and fixing some of your END problems by having all your movement at 0 END.

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6 hours ago, Christopher said:

In particular this limitation is a replacement for the "Elemental Controls" wich were a 3rd Framework option in 5E and earlier.

Stuff like "Kryptonian Powers, -1/4" with enemies building powers to "Drain Kryptonian Powers". Or even stuff like "Physical Complication: Red Sunlight causes drain on Kryptonian powers"

I got the idea when I saw a build someone did of Luke cage.  All his stats were unified powers and strength had decreased endurance.  

 

But out you guys bring up good points.  I’ll just skip that idea.

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

From the good start on a build which you have at this point, you get into a lot of personal preference...so I'll just express some personal preferences and you can take them for what you will.

 

I'm not really seeing what the 18 EGO is getting you unless you are planning on the character having some crippling psychological complications which you are going to need to overcome every session. :) I usually don't buy it up that high unless it's for a mentalist.

 

I think I bought it for defense against mentalists?  I just liked the idea of being strong willed.

Quote

 

Considering your high STR, a 1d6 Killing Strike isn't going to mean much to your character and I think you'd end up never using it. I'd much prefer to spend those points toward a Defensive Strike which is going to be useful basically any time your character is slugging it out toe-to-toe. I've played high STR characters without much beyond Martial Dodge, Defensive Strike, Martial Strike, and Legsweep and have been perfectly fine (i.e. those to be the core Martial arts maneuvers I end up using frequently and the rest are window dressing which comes in handy on the rare occasion).

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

 

Martial throw just seems fun.  I was wondering if I’d miss martial grab or escape if I didn’t take it.

 

i took passing strike for 3 reasons, was envisioning it as a flying kick, seemed cool.  Seems like move through does a lot of damage?  And was planning of buying swinging with my ninjitsu multipower, simulating grappling hook, and figured a fast moving swinging flying kick would be cool? Maybe it would never work I dunno.

 

 

Quote

 

The English language skill should be free in the everyman skills (saving you 4 points). Or if English isn't your native language, your native language should be listed in your everyman skills and you pay for knowing English.

So English is second language, so I played 3 to be fluent + 1 because it’s unrelated language.  

 

 

Quote

 

Instead of paying 8 each for Running and Leaping, you could put them into a multipower. For example:

 

8 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (8 active points)

1u Running +8

1u Leaping +16

 

That takes your cost down from 16 to 10. You could take those points and spend them elsewhere or you could increase the size of the multipower, increase the number of movement power slots, and/or play with some advantages. For example for 15 points you could get:

 

12 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (12 active points)

1u Running +8 (20 total) (0 END cost on total running +1/2)

1u Leaping +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total leaping +1/2)

1u Swimming +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total swimming +1/2)

 

In that example, you'd be saving a point, adding Swimming, and fixing some of your END problems by having all your movement at 0 END.

I’m not sure I understand how the math is working for the multipower.  Are you buying 8 for the multipower, then 8 points for running, bought as a fixed power so /10 makes it cost 1 point? Same for the jumping.  Does that then mean I can only either run fast or jump high in the same turn but I can’t do both at the same time?

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1 hour ago, Ninja said:

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

You got it right and the other poster might have overlooked the STR adding. Or maybe you wrote it up so STR does not add by accident?

 

A 1D6 KA (Killing Damage Attack) has 3 DC

A 3D6 Blast or HTH attack (normal damage attack) has 3 DC

A 4D6 HTH Attack, Armor Piercing (+1/4) has 5 DC. The AP advantage is a "Advantage that affects DC calculation"

 

40 STR would add 8 DC to that (not to Blast, RKA and "No STR bonus" attacks of course). Wich is then reverted back into dice, depending on the advantages.

 

Only simple way of looking at it is:
You got 8 DC from STR. Melee Attacks add their DC and Advantages into the mix.

 

1D6 HKA and 40 STR would be 11 DC or a 3.5D6 HKA.

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2 hours ago, Ninja said:

 

 

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

 

 

I'm not completely sure I understand it in 6e since it might have changed from earlier editions :). I missed the DC in your Martial Arts description which I why I didn't count it in earlier but this is how I understand it would work.

 

The maneuver gives you half of a d6 in killing attack which can be boosted to 1d6 with your STR. You can only put in STR to add to the damage up until it doubles the original dice in damage. After that point, adding additional STR does absolutely nothing.

 

The damage classes don't add much very quickly (page 72 of Champions Complete).

+1 DC adds +1 so the attack would be 1d6+1

A +2 DC adds half of a d6 so the attack would be 1.5d6

 

With a 1.5d6 attack, your maximum BODY done would be 9 and maximum STUN would be 27. The average BODY would be around 5 and average STUN of 15 (and that average damage would do zero damage to the 5PD of a brick wall, for example, while hitting it with your Martial Strike would overcome the wall's defense and go on to do 5 BODY of damage on average).

 

Now if I'm wrong about when the STR is considered and the .5d6 from the DC adds directly to the base attack of .5d6, that would give the attack 1d6 (or up to 2d6 when adding your STR).

 

Either of those doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when you are considering a ninja multipower where you could straight up use those points to buy a slot with a bigger killing attack than the maneuver would give you.

 

(Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how killing attacks work in which case, anyone feel free to correct me where wrong.)

 

Quote

Martial throw just seems fun.  I was wondering if I’d miss martial grab or escape if I didn’t take it.



 

Fun is perfectly fine, that's sort of the point when you get beyond "my character is so incapable of doing anything that I'm continually frustrated" (and you are far beyond that point, in my opinion). :)

 

I'm a fan of Martial Grab when I have the points. As for Martial Escape, your character has a fairly high STR to start with so I don't see a huge need there. For that matter, if you have a high enough OCV, you don't really "need" Martial Grab.

 

But considering you seem to want so many levels invested into Martial Arts, you might just want to buy all your maneuvers up front. It's often easier to convince a picky GM to let you buy an extra DC or extra level than it is to get him to agree to letting you buy an extra maneuver.

 

Or alternatively, you could buy levels in all hand-to-hand combat rather buying levels in your Martial Arts. That'd let you move levels over into regular grab, regular block, regular disarm, improvised hand to hand weapons like swinging a car at the bad guy, etc. The levels would be more expensive so you couldn't afford as many at the first but you might make up the value through the extra flexibility.

 

Quote

I’m not sure I understand how the math is working for the multipower.  Are you buying 8 for the multipower, then 8 points for running, bought as a fixed power so /10 makes it cost 1 point? Same for the jumping.  Does that then mean I can only either run fast or jump high in the same turn but I can’t do both at the same time?

 

Exactly right. I used the "u" to designate the fixed slot rather than the "f" which is used in Champions Complete because I'm old and forgot they changed it from one letter to the other. ;)

 

If you buy the running and leaping separately, you could in theory do a half move as Running then use the rest of your phase as a half move of Leaping. When you buy them together in a multipower, you are getting one or the other on each of your phases. You are getting a large break on the cost by giving up some flexibility in some cases which hopefully wouldn't come up often: your Running without using the multipower has a half move of 6 meters while your half move with the multipower would be 10m. How often would not having access to that extra 4m half move of Running screw you over in the hopefully rare cases when you might want to Run and Leap in the same phase? Then compare that to the number of points a multipower would save you and what you could spend those point on.

 

For me, the answer always comes out that I'd rather have the advantages of the multipower when it comes to movement.

 

====

 

I didn't mention it earlier but when building your character, you should consider versatility, synergy, and whether you want to take your character in unexpected directions.

 

For example, I noticed your character had no enhanced senses of any sort which could be problematic since martial artist characters often operate in darkness. I suggested Defense Manuevers I and II but you could go beyond that with one of the enhanced vision powers.

 

If you wanted to go with the Swimming route in a movement multipower, your character could be very effective underwater if he had some Life Support to go with it. And Ultraviolet Perception works well underwater.

 

You could weave those ideas together by doing something along the lines of

 

2 Life Support - Safe Environment: high pressure and intense cold (OIF costume)

2 Life Support - Expanded Breathing: underwater (OAF high-tech facemask which filters oxygen out of the water)

2 Ultraviolet Perception (OAF goggles)

1 Transportation Familiarity: SCUBA (this completely eliminates underwater fighting penalties)

 

You spend 7 points and add a whole new dimension to your character. Villains looking at you can tell your costume does something special but most probably couldn't figure out what it does without close examination, which gives them something else to consider when confronting you (and something else to do if they capture you other than torturing you, "gotta get that costume off before he wakes up"). The facemask lets you breath underwater but for all most people know, it could protect you from gas attacks as well so they might not choose to hit you with their area of effect NND gas attack which is foiled with a simple gas mask.

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1 hour ago, Christopher said:

You got it right and the other poster might have overlooked the STR adding. Or maybe you wrote it up so STR does not add by accident?

 

A 1D6 KA (Killing Damage Attack) has 3 DC

A 3D6 Blast or HTH attack (normal damage attack) has 3 DC

A 4D6 HTH Attack, Armor Piercing (+1/4) has 5 DC. The AP advantage is a "Advantage that affects DC calculation"

 

40 STR would add 8 DC to that (not to Blast, RKA and "No STR bonus" attacks of course). Wich is then reverted back into dice, depending on the advantages.

 

Only simple way of looking at it is:
You got 8 DC from STR. Melee Attacks add their DC and Advantages into the mix.

 

1D6 HKA and 40 STR would be 11 DC or a 3.5D6 HKA.

So the martial arts maneuver killing strike is 1/2 D6, plus 2 dc that I bought.  It says adds strength as a hka, so one dmg class per 5 points.  40 strength, so 8 DC, so +10 in total?  Why isn’t that 3d6?  Guess I’m confused.  But that for 4 points.

 

Is is the thing about not being able to increase damage past double accurate or is that from older edition?

 

vs a killing attack power.  30 points would get 2d6, plus 1d6 per 15 points of strength,  so 8 DC?  So 4.5 D6?

then divide the cost by 10 to put in multipower and that’s 3 points?  So buying a killing attack through powers is more efficient than through martial arts?  Only downside being it’s part of a multipower, and I can’t use my  +4 martial arts skill?

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

I'm not completely sure I understand it in 6e since it might have changed from earlier editions :). I missed the DC in your Martial Arts description which I why I didn't count it in earlier but this is how I understand it would work.

 

The maneuver gives you half of a d6 in killing attack which can be boosted to 1d6 with your STR. You can only put in STR to add to the damage up until it doubles the original dice in damage. After that point, adding additional STR does absolutely nothing.

 

The damage classes don't add much very quickly (page 72 of Champions Complete).

+1 DC adds +1 so the attack would be 1d6+1

A +2 DC adds half of a d6 so the attack would be 1.5d6

 

With a 1.5d6 attack, your maximum BODY done would be 9 and maximum STUN would be 27. The average BODY would be around 5 and average STUN of 15 (and that average damage would do zero damage to the 5PD of a brick wall, for example, while hitting it with your Martial Strike would overcome the wall's defense and go on to do 5 BODY of damage on average).

 

Now if I'm wrong about when the STR is considered and the .5d6 from the DC adds directly to the base attack of .5d6, that would give the attack 1d6 (or up to 2d6 when adding your STR).

 

Either of those doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when you are considering a ninja multipower where you could straight up use those points to buy a slot with a bigger killing attack than the maneuver would give you.

 

(Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how killing attacks work in which case, anyone feel free to correct me where wrong.)

 

 

Fun is perfectly fine, that's sort of the point when you get beyond "my character is so incapable of doing anything that I'm continually frustrated" (and you are far beyond that point, in my opinion). :)

 

I'm a fan of Martial Grab when I have the points. As for Martial Escape, your character has a fairly high STR to start with so I don't see a huge need there. For that matter, if you have a high enough OCV, you don't really "need" Martial Grab.

 

But considering you seem to want so many levels invested into Martial Arts, you might just want to buy all your maneuvers up front. It's often easier to convince a picky GM to let you buy an extra DC or extra level than it is to get him to agree to letting you buy an extra maneuver.

 

Or alternatively, you could buy levels in all hand-to-hand combat rather buying levels in your Martial Arts. That'd let you move levels over into regular grab, regular block, regular disarm, improvised hand to hand weapons like swinging a car at the bad guy, etc. The levels would be more expensive so you couldn't afford as many at the first but you might make up the value through the extra flexibility.

 

I only did it that way because I thought it was more efficient, I could obviously be completely wrong.  +4 to martial arts for 20 or +3 to all hand to hand for 24?

 

i was kind of thinking as I leveled I’d buy more multipowers and stick to the maneuvers I started with.  Maybe that’s a poor choice.  Aside from the ones you listed as must haves, dodge, martial strike, defensive strike, leg sweep, how would you rank the others?

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

 

Exactly right. I used the "u" to designate the fixed slot rather than the "f" which is used in Champions Complete because I'm old and forgot they changed it from one letter to the other. ;)

 

If you buy the running and leaping separately, you could in theory do a half move as Running then use the rest of your phase as a half move of Leaping. When you buy them together in a multipower, you are getting one or the other on each of your phases. You are getting a large break on the cost by giving up some flexibility in some cases which hopefully wouldn't come up often: your Running without using the multipower has a half move of 6 meters while your half move with the multipower would be 10m. How often would not having access to that extra 4m half move of Running screw you over in the hopefully rare cases when you might want to Run and Leap in the same phase? Then compare that to the number of points a multipower would save you and what you could spend those point on.

 

For me, the answer always comes out that I'd rather have the advantages of the multipower when it comes to movement.

 

====

 

I didn't mention it earlier but when building your character, you should consider versatility, synergy, and whether you want to take your character in unexpected directions.

 

For example, I noticed your character had no enhanced senses of any sort which could be problematic since martial artist characters often operate in darkness. I suggested Defense Manuevers I and II but you could go beyond that with one of the enhanced vision powers.

I thought about buying enhanced perception, hearing, or darkvision.  Wasn’t sure how often it would come up.  I’d be the only stealthy one I think.

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

If you wanted to go with the Swimming route in a movement multipower, your character could be very effective underwater if he had some Life Support to go with it. And Ultraviolet Perception works well underwater.

 

You could weave those ideas together by doing something along the lines of

 

2 Life Support - Safe Environment: high pressure and intense cold (OIF costume)

2 Life Support - Expanded Breathing: underwater (OAF high-tech facemask which filters oxygen out of the water)

2 Ultraviolet Perception (OAF goggles)

1 Transportation Familiarity: SCUBA (this completely eliminates underwater fighting penalties)

 

You spend 7 points and add a whole new dimension to your character. Villains looking at you can tell your costume does something special but most probably couldn't figure out what it does without close examination, which gives them something else to consider when confronting you (and something else to do if they capture you other than torturing you, "gotta get that costume off before he wakes up"). The facemask lets you breath underwater but for all most people know, it could protect you from gas attacks as well so they might not choose to hit you with their area of effect NND gas attack which is foiled with a simple gas mask.

That’s a cool idea.

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5 hours ago, Ninja said:

I only did it that way because I thought it was more efficient, I could obviously be completely wrong.  +4 to martial arts for 20 or +3 to all hand to hand for 24?

.

.

i was kind of thinking as I leveled I’d buy more multipowers and stick to the maneuvers I started with.  Maybe that’s a poor choice.  

 

 

At this point, there's no such thing as a poor choice. No matter what you do, you are going to run into situations where how you chose to build the character is exactly perfect for the situation and other times when you'll slap yourself up side the head for not building it some other way. That's just the nature of the game. Even a gamer who is playing Superman is going to kick himself when he runs into a scenario where he's operating under a red sun rather than a yellow one and all the bad guys' accessories are made of kryptonite.

 

If you are the kind of person who sweats the details and wants things to go as perfectly smoothly as possible, go ahead and sweat the details and try to build the character to be the best in every situation imaginable. But if you aren't, just build something you think you'll enjoy playing and don't worry about being hyper-efficient.

 

5 hours ago, Ninja said:

 

 

 

Aside from the ones you listed as must haves, dodge, martial strike, defensive strike, leg sweep, how would you rank the others?

 

My ranking is based on my playstyle of dancing in and out of combat and using various tricks in addition to straight up hand-to-hand combat. But it'd go something like this:

 

Legsweep - "Opponent Falls Down" is the best effect you can have when you're working with a team (the bad guy fell down, everyone hammer him while he has the DCV penalty)

Defensive Strike

Martial Strike

Martial Dodge (goes down in importance as the character's defenses go up. For some characters its mandatory, for others who can soak up damage or heal, it's optional).

 

Next I'd rank grab and disarm effects. I generally have built my own martial arts maneuvers to fit the character rather than accepting the standard write-ups for those effects. But if you're going to be a martial artist, you're going to face people with swords, guns, and various hand-held doomsday devices which you need to get out of the bad guy's hands so I like to have some version of this effect.

 

Passing Strike would come next but it's value is highly variable. If you haven't bought much movement power, this maneuver just isn't going to be as valuable to you as it would be otherwise. If you are The Flash, you want it. If you are The Thing, you probably don't.

 

I don't personally like Martial Block because I don't run characters with a high enough SPD to make blowing a phase in h-t-h combat seem worthwhile. To me it's too much like, "you are going to accomplish nothing this phase plus have to wait a really long time until your next phase". Other players might rank it as one of the most essential maneuvers and it's certainly a very flavorful thing for a martial artist to be doing. But maybe I'm just not a martial artist at heart regardless of how many maneuvers my character has. :D

 

Martial Throw - Throwing someone off a building or a cliff as a finishing move is very cinematic.

 

Martial Escape - ranking it this low is probably due to my playing style of combining ranged attacks and other actions with hand-to-hand combat and prioritizing keeping a high DCV. If you don't get grabbed often, you don't need bonuses to escape often.

 

Sacrifice Throw is likely the worst because "You Fall" is the worst thing to have spent points on if the villain you are fighting has brought friends.

 

Nerve Strike and Choke Hold are more for heroic games than Champions, in my opinion, because a 400 point character should be able to do better than inflicting a 2d6 no range NND attack. Many Champions villains could stand there for more than a turn letting you choke him and almost all of them plus most henchmen would be immune to a Nerve Strike because they have some PDr around their vitals.

 

 

Let me emphasize again that this ranking is highly dependent on my style of play. I don't like having my characters go toe-to-toe in a fair fight against the bad guys. I'm going to be tossing a flash grenade, smoke bomb, Running Drain, etc. to soften them up. I'll grab their obvious accessible foci. I'll try to block using their foci if I've grabbed their fragile OAF. I'll exchange punches then move away making the bad guy chase me as the flash grenade/smoke bomb effects starts to wear off. I'll temporarily switch opponents and try to help out a teammate if my bad guy has trouble keeping up with me. I'll try to delay my action and slip in a Haymaker if I think that's what it takes to put the bad guy down and the timing seems like I can get with it. Sometimes you just have to go in and try to pound someone into the ground. But I usually spend the first part of the fight with an eye toward seeing how things are going, whether we've each squared off against the right opponent, whether one of the opponents seems to be a glass cannon and can be taken down easily, etc. That's a lot harder to do after I've fully engaged in hand-to-hand combat and have a bad guy up in my face all the time so i try to dip in and out of hand-to-hand until I know the battle is going well.

 

 

5 hours ago, Ninja said:

I thought about buying enhanced perception, hearing, or darkvision.  Wasn’t sure how often it would come up.  I’d be the only stealthy one I think.

 

 

Honestly, how often those things come up depends on the GM. Some GM's will just handwave away the drawbacks of not being able to see well (or just completely forget about it) while other GM's will make sure you take every possible penalty to every possible roll.

 

Personally I'm the paranoid type so I wouldn't be able to wait and see how strict the GM is with enforcing visibility rules and would need to buy it just for my peace of mind, if nothing else.

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16 hours ago, Ninja said:

@archer

 

in in your estimation how is the combat sense talent?  It’s expensive, 15 points?  But no penalties for loss of sight.  I’m envisioning dropping a smoke bomb and keeping full stats.

 

I don't use it due to the expense, it costs 17 if you don't want to blow half a phase to use it. And even then, it only works when you make your skill roll, You can generally buy a vision power which lets you see through your own smoke bomb and through darkness 100% of the time for 5 points (or with an OAF for only 2 points). You could even add 360 degree vision for another 5 points and still come up cheaper than combat sense.

 

Combat Sense is fine for building villains where I'm not trying to build on a specific budget. But when building a PC to play, I'm always scrambling to shave a few points here and there to buy something else...and Combat Sense has never made the cut.

 

I could see someone buying it when trying to write up the powers of some specific comic book character like Daredevil. But not for general use.

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On 12/14/2018 at 3:37 AM, Ninja said:

@archer

 

in in your estimation how is the combat sense talent?  It’s expensive, 15 points?  But no penalties for loss of sight.  I’m envisioning dropping a smoke bomb and keeping full stats.

 

22 hours ago, archer said:

 

I don't use it due to the expense, it costs 17 if you don't want to blow half a phase to use it. And even then, it only works when you make your skill roll, You can generally buy a vision power which lets you see through your own smoke bomb and through darkness 100% of the time for 5 points (or with an OAF for only 2 points). You could even add 360 degree vision for another 5 points and still come up cheaper than combat sense.

 

Combat Sense is fine for building villains where I'm not trying to build on a specific budget. But when building a PC to play, I'm always scrambling to shave a few points here and there to buy something else...and Combat Sense has never made the cut.

 

I could see someone buying it when trying to write up the powers of some specific comic book character like Daredevil. But not for general use.

1) I would like to see your Formula for that 5 point sense pwoer. Because it seems way to cheap for altertnate targetting or might have absuseable weakpoints.
2) This is what the Writeup for Combat Sense is: " Combat Sense: Detect Target In HTH Combat, Targeting (Passive). Total cost: 15 points."

So it is the sense power you should be looking for.

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15 hours ago, Christopher said:

 

1) I would like to see your Formula for that 5 point sense pwoer. Because it seems way to cheap for altertnate targetting or might have absuseable weakpoints.

 

 

Here's the formula: Smoke Bomb (affects normal vision)

 

variations:

 

5 Infrared Perception

 

Here's another:

 

5 Nightvision

 

And another:

 

5 Ultraviolet Perception

 

15 hours ago, Christopher said:


2) This is what the Writeup for Combat Sense is: " Combat Sense: Detect Target In HTH Combat, Targeting (Passive). Total cost: 15 points."

So it is the sense power you should be looking for.

 

COMBAT SENSE
Cost:
15 CP for a base 9 + (INT/5) roll; +1 to roll per 1 CP; +2
CP to make the ability a Sense
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1 hour ago, archer said:

Smoke Bomb (affects normal vision) 

And you made exactly the mistake I asumed you were doing. You asume the smoke/darkness is limited down to only affect normal Vision.

 

You can not buy less then a Full Sense Group at the first step. You aim to disript sight, the whole Sight Group is the minimum you get.

So 10 CP/1 Hex in 5E. 5 CP/1m radius in 6E

 

FYI, the idea was to disrupt the enemy senses to have the "enemy fights in darkness" bonus. So if anything you just explained why he should not limit his power down to Sight Group Addons, but spring for Combat Sense. If a enemy can counter it with a 5 Point Equipment called "IR Googles", that is nothing.

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25 minutes ago, Christopher said:

And you made exactly the mistake I asumed you were doing. You asume the smoke/darkness is limited down to only affect normal Vision.

 

You can not buy less then a Full Sense Group at the first step. You aim to disript sight, the whole Sight Group is the minimum you get.

So 10 CP/1 Hex in 5E. 5 CP/1m radius in 6E

 

 

DARKNESS TABLE
Cost Per
 5   1m Radius Darkness Affects
 
One or more Targeting Senses or Sense Groups
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Ok, here's what I think I'll bring to the table.  The multipower has nothing in it, but I figure I will add powers to it as I level, and think of things.   I have 2 points from first session to spend anyway.

 

What does the jury think?

 

Str 40; Dex 28; Con 25; Int 13; Ego 13; Pre 13; OCV 8; DCV 8; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 227

 

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

 

Skills: Stealth 3; SS: Medicine 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; English 2; Power tricks 3

 

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Martial Disarm 4; Martial strike 4; Martial dodge 4; +4combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 20; Martial throw 3; leg sweep 3; Martial throw 4; KS: Ninjitsu 0

Total skills 66

 

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mental defense 10; Knockback resistance 6; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8; 60 AP multipower: Ninjitsu, limitation restrainable -1/2 30 points

Cost: 107

 

Total points: 400

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8 hours ago, Christopher said:

And you made exactly the mistake I asumed you were doing. You asume the smoke/darkness is limited down to only affect normal Vision.

 

You can not buy less then a Full Sense Group at the first step. You aim to disript sight, the whole Sight Group is the minimum you get.

So 10 CP/1 Hex in 5E. 5 CP/1m radius in 6E

 

Yes you can. I don't know where the heck you got this idea from.

 

That being said, buying the your own smoke bomb as Darkness vs Normal Sight and getting UV Vision won't help you against the competent ninja whose smoke bomb was bought against the Sight Sense Group. Or when your sight is Flashed. Or when in full darkness with no UV light source (underground for example). In all of those example Combat Sense or Spacial Awareness or whatever would be infinitely more useful than the UV Vision you only bought to circumvent your own smoke bomb even though it makes no sense for your character.

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On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:10 AM, Ninja said:

 

Also, my Martial arts combat skill levels, +4, they won’t apply if I use an action not in my martial arts, like a normal throw or grab right?

 

Howd I do?

 

Right. Martial Arts Levels only help with Martial Maneuvers.

 

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, Ninja said:

Oh, also as a curiosity, if I wanted to I could put my increased strength, speed, defenses etc into a unified power, and call it like enhanced mutant physiology, and get back 1/4 points?  

 

As has been pointed out, then you're very vulnerable to Drains

 

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:38 PM, Ninja said:

 

 

i took passing strike for 3 reasons, was envisioning it as a flying kick, seemed cool.  Seems like move through does a lot of damage?  And was planning of buying swinging with my ninjitsu multipower, simulating grappling hook, and figured a fast moving swinging flying kick would be cool? Maybe it would never work I dunno.

 

 

That should work.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Getting kicked by a palindromedary

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18 hours ago, archer said:

 

DARKNESS TABLE
Cost Per
 5   1m Radius Darkness Affects
 
One or more Targeting Senses or Sense Groups

 

10 hours ago, bigbywolfe said:

Yes you can. I don't know where the heck you got this idea from.

I usually get my ideas about the rules from the rules.

6E: " A character with Darkness can create a feld that’s impervious to one Sense Group (usually the Sight Group).[...] At its base level, Darkness flls a 1m radius Area for 5 Character Points and affects one Targeting Sense Group. "

Yes, there is a table with buying Additional Senses or Sense Groups. Additional is the important word here.

5E Chacter Creation Handbook has the same wording to the leter, except of course where measurements are concerend.

Senses and Sense Affecting powers do not seem to have changed at all between 5E and 6E.

 

You propably can not aim for a sense as Base Cost, because that would be too powerfull. I mean how much Weaker is "Darkness: Normal Vision" really compared to "Darkness: Sight Group"? Would it be enough to reduce the base cost from 5 to 2? The whole Character Point system is simply not granular enough to handle that level of detail.

 

Of coruse you are free to pay the 5 points for the whole Sight Group and then only take "Normal Sight". As a I recently learned, "minimum purchase value" is only the minimum you have to pay for, not the minimum you have to take with you too. But this is superheroics. Of course every other villain has UV, Night or IR Vision. Some 175 point Agents might have it. Not getting the full sight group if you pay for it would just be stupid. Or a very well thought out choice.

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15 hours ago, Christopher said:

 

I usually get my ideas about the rules from the rules.

6E: " A character with Darkness can create a feld that’s impervious to one Sense Group (usually the Sight Group).[...] At its base level, Darkness flls a 1m radius Area for 5 Character Points and affects one Targeting Sense Group. "

Yes, there is a table with buying Additional Senses or Sense Groups. Additional is the important word here.

 

 

I usually get my ideas from the rules as well which is why I cut-and-pasted from the chart.

 

In any case, we are still comparing the slightly increased cost of an OAF smoke grenade plus OAF vision goggles (which are good for other things such as seeing what is happening at a distance in poor lighting) against 17 points spent on Combat Sense.

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

I usually get my ideas from the rules as well which is why I cut-and-pasted from the chart.

 

In any case, we are still comparing the slightly increased cost of an OAF smoke grenade plus OAF vision goggles (which are good for other things such as seeing what is happening at a distance in poor lighting) against 17 points spent on Combat Sense. 

You do seem to accept that "Sight Group" is the smalest base denomination you can buy now. That is all that realy maters.

 

The rule for senses is always: "The more points you spend on it, the less able sense affecting powers are going to disrupt it."

Your solution is so cheap, because you put it into the sight group. Wich means any SA Power going for "Sight Group" without limitations will affect it.

Combat Sense is so expensive, because it is in the "not a group" group. If you want to block it, you have to pay as much as for a whole targetting sense group.

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