Brightburn

[assault]

I'm arguing that superhero horror is just as valid as superhero comedy, superhero romance or superhero whatever. This includes "superhero action", which is basically what generic "superheroes" is.

 

Furthermore, since Superman is "the" superhero, he is a natural reference point for such stories, in much the same way that he was the reference point for films like Hancock or My Super Ex-Girlfriend.

 

That's my substantive point.

 

A side point: I wrote nothing about "power and responsibility". I wrote "power and privilege", which is entirely different.

[Lord Liaden]

11 hours ago, assault said:

I'm arguing that superhero horror is just as valid as superhero comedy, superhero romance or superhero whatever. This includes "superhero action", which is basically what generic "superheroes" is.

 

Furthermore, since Superman is "the" superhero, he is a natural reference point for such stories, in much the same way that he was the reference point for films like Hancock or My Super Ex-Girlfriend.

 

I can't argue those points. It's just that with this movie, the Injustice video games, the recent animated Justice League: Gods and Monsters, and to a lesser extent Batman vs Superman, the popular trend seems to be throwing shade over one of the brightest heroes in pop culture.

 

At least in the WB's DC properties, Superman still thinks and acts like Superman.

[DShomshak]

I can't watch the trailer over my home connection, so I can't comment upon it.

 

But yeah, there's sure a lot of deconstructions, subversions, parodies, blah blah blah of Superman.

 

After a certain point, it's no longer clever.

 

When "subverting" a trope becomes the trope, it's actually more "subversive" to try going back to the original and play it straight. In the case of Superman, this is the common man given godlike power -- born an alien, but raised in idealized small-town America -- who does *not* misuse that power. Who is indeed in all ways good.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hermit]

Seen in a comments section at superhero hype article on Brightburn

 

"A brooding, joyless, terrifying alien in a red cape leaves death and destruction in his wake. But hey, enough about Man of Steel..."

 

Now, I liked a lot about MoS, but I laughed. And I agree, the deconstruction attempts are fair game, but form me, overplayed. Brighburn will have to be quite good to stand out from that over cluttered (In my experience) field.

To be fair, to those who never read a comic in their life, this might be new and 'fresh'

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:31 AM, Bazza said:

Or capitalist man. 

Not quite.  The deconstruction furthers the Gramscian Damageagainst the culture, hastening the instability of society, and sapping the confidence in basic values, and overturning the current hierarchies to bake theplaying fieldmorelevel for revolutionary, or leftist causes. 

[Duke Bushido]

On December 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, megaplayboy said:

Well, the Satire/Parody defense can be pretty broadly interpreted by the courts.  This could be considered a dark satire.  Alternatively, some of the elements of the Superman story--alien origin, superpower panoply, foster parents--might now be considered "stock" nowadays.  Certainly when JMS rewrote Hyperion's origin, he liberally "borrowed" the basic elements of the Superman story, with a dark twist(the parents were government agents hired to act as his parents, and terrified of the boy after he kills a puppy in front of them).  

 

Funny--

 

one of my youth group players-- the one who plays Magnificent--  outright _stole_ the Superman origin, and even created his character to be solar-powered.  His justification was he "wanted to make Superman, but not so stupid super like he is in the comics."

 

While he's not really sophisticated enough or experienced enough to make the character really come alive, I have to admit I like the way-lower power levels (and total lack of most of the powers) he's been shooting for.

[Trencher]

15 hours ago, assault said:

I'm arguing that superhero horror is just as valid as superhero comedy, superhero romance or superhero whatever. This includes "superhero action", which is basically what generic "superheroes" is.

 

Furthermore, since Superman is "the" superhero, he is a natural reference point for such stories, in much the same way that he was the reference point for films like Hancock or My Super Ex-Girlfriend.

 

That's my substantive point.

 

A side point: I wrote nothing about "power and responsibility". I wrote "power and privilege", which is entirely different.

 

No problem with the side point. 

 

I would disagree however with the argument that a superhero horror is as valid as a comedy. Because horror movies genre already have superpowerd beings. The monsters. 

Dracula, Werewolves and other monster movies have a superpowerd creature attacking regular humans, either it wins or the humans finds it weakness and defeat it. 

So this movie is going to be a super kid killing people until someone discover kryptonite or just calms him down. 

Keep in mind that you have to sit and watch for an hour or more just to see this play out. The idea might be a fun thought experiment and good for a paragraph or two but its not strong enough to be a movie. 

It will bore people, some might like the idea enough (and even more importantly like the idea of liking the idea enough) so much that they cant admit to themselves that the premise would barely be enough for a short film not a full feature. 

But it will be bad. 

A far better mix of superhero and horror have been made in the exellent series Astro City. I wont spoil it but it was pretty dam cool. And unlike the endless deconstructions we see today it actually made you think. 

 

This movie is made to be enjoyed by people who think supporting deconstructions makes them better than other people.

Even if its as mindless as: "What is super hero was super villan?"

It is quite manipulative, tricking weak willed people out of their cash by exploiting their desire to feel smarter than everybody else. 

 

Changing around a character trait just to serve your story is a sign of hack writing and the more jarring the change the more hack the writer is. The more a writer can do with a characters established traits the greater the writer. 

[Lord Liaden]

9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

At least in the WB's DC properties, Superman still thinks and acts like Superman.

 

I just finished watching tonight's episode of Supergirl. I emphatically take back the above.

[Trencher]

Just now, Lord Liaden said:

 

I just finished watching tonight's episode of Supergirl. I emphatically take back the above.

What did they do now?

[Lord Liaden]

I posted my rant to the Supergirl thread. ?

[BoloOfEarth]

So, alien baby crash lands on Earth, raised by earthlings, and becomes a villain?

 

No thanks, I already saw Megamind.

[Lawnmower Boy]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:29 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Not quite.  The deconstruction furthers the Gramscian Damageagainst the culture, hastening the instability of society, and sapping the confidence in basic values, and overturning the current hierarchies to bake theplaying fieldmorelevel for revolutionary, or leftist causes. 

 Gramsci's deconstruction is aimed at hegemonic moves in popular culture. Superman started out as a working class hero, and although tamed by postwar bourgeois society, is still a crusading journalist and all-around good guy, tellingly pitted against a capitalist arch villain. The "dark and gritty" reboots are clearly hegemonic appropriation. They're meant to tell you that revolutionary heroes --indeed, social progress in its entirety-- are impossible in this fallen world. 

 

But enough of that. Let's just enjoy this subtle and seasonal, popular re-magining of the Internationale.

 

 

 

Geez.  I mean, "Rudolf the Red. . ., " Santa as an allegory for the working class? Fog standing in for ideological mystification? Just how unsubtle can you be? 

[Scott Ruggels]

Well played, sir but I would argue that Superman was a moral Ideal, more so than a working class hero. He was a defender, rather than a spearhead. 

 

Actually, Superman is a comfort. Good Superman stories emphasize his intelligence and moral fortitude, rather than his myriad powers. The best ones have not been the silver age stories, but those where writers go into what he believes and does, and his relationships are out the normals. There were several good Superman  stories in his DCAU series, but for me the best have been Superman for AllSeasoj, and Red Son. 

 

I see youre Gene Autry, and raise you The Waitresses. 

 

[Starlord]

 

[Old Man]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:23 AM, Scott Ruggels said:

Well played, sir but I would argue that Superman was a moral Ideal, more so than a working class hero. He was a defender, rather than a spearhead. 

 

Actually, Superman is a comfort. Good Superman stories emphasize his intelligence and moral fortitude, rather than his myriad powers. The best ones have not been the silver age stories, but those where writers go into what he believes and does, and his relationships are out the normals. 

 

 

This. Superman is hard to write because he is invulnerable and omnipotent. The only conflicts are the ones in his head and heart. 

 

And because he is so morally upright, it’s extremely hard to do an alternate “take” on Superman without it being darker or more cynical. If you do another take on white, of course the resulting shade isn’t going to be white. 

[Sociotard]

I think that in the golden age they dealt with the overpower problem by giving him problems where his strength meant nothing, or at the very least made him struggle to find a creative use for his strength.

 

Punching shady landlords doesn't help much.

[zslane]

45 minutes ago, Old Man said:

it’s extremely hard to do an alternate “take” on Superman without it being darker or more cynical.

 

Yeah, but therein lies what I feel is the fundamental flaw in their thinking: that they have to do an alternative take in the first place. ("They" being anyone, especially WB/DC, who is in the business of telling these stories.)

[Greywind]

In the Golden Age, he was SuperMAN.

 

In the Silver/Modern Age, he became PowerCreepMan.

[Duke Bushido]

On December 11, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Lord Liaden said:

 

I just finished watching tonight's episode of Supergirl. I emphatically take back the above.

 

You made it further than I did.  I got a couple episodes into season 2.  When I realized how much effort it was taking, I gave up

 

[wcw43921]

I won't see this movie. Bad enough they had Superman be stupid in Dawn Of Justice (surely I wasn't the only one thinking on the Congressional hearing scene, "Scan the room with X-Ray Vision, there could be an explosive charge somewhere!")--now someone has to make an evil version of him?

 

Like that hasn't been done already?

Hard Pass. There are plenty of other movies to see.

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, wcw43921 said:

I won't see this movie. Bad enough they had Superman be stupid in Dawn Of Justice (surely I wasn't the only one thinking on the Congressional hearing scene, "Scan the room with X-Ray Vision, there could be an explosive charge somewhere!")--now someone has to make an evil version of him?

 

Like that hasn't been done already?

Hard Pass. There are plenty of other movies to see.

TV Tropes links are like land mines to a day's productivity.

 

I won't be seeing it either.