intp Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 I had a question about KA damage. The rules state that a KA that is one DC short of a full d6 can be either d6-1 or 1/2d6 (e.g. 25 points could be 2d6-1 HKA or 1 1/2d6 HKA). But d6-1 allows a spread of 1-5 BODY, with an average of 2 2/3 BODY ((1+1+2+3+4+5)/6) whereas 1/2d6 allows a spread of 1-3 BODY with an average of 2 BODY. I tend to use d6-1 instead of 1/2d6 for KA only if the points in the KA is at 2-4 points over a d6. For example, for Stiletto (from CV3), who has a 1d6 HKA, AP, and a STR of 15, he would add 3 DC for STR = 2.4 DC at +1/4 Advantages, or effectively 12 points for STR, justifying 2d6-1 with STR instead of 1 1/2d6 with STR, but if his total DCs with the Advantage came to less than 12 points (say, 11.8 points), I tend to use 1/2d6. I use a calculator to make the process quicker. I did a forum search and came up empty for any discussion about this with Steve Long before he left. I assume different campaigns take different approaches but I was wondering if anyone used an approach like this, or if the default is just to allow either option (d6-1 or 1/2d6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome BODY (important!) Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Unless I've overlooked something, the d6-1 doesn't have a "minimum result 1" clause. 0-5 is a half-pip better on mean than 1-3, but that lower floor can drive people nuts. I know one guy in my playgroup who I'd be able to make switch to d3 just by pointing at 1s and saying "Yeah, that's a zero. Don'tcha love the d6-1?" Honestly though, I always go d6-1 because having to segregate the d3 is a pain. The QOL improvement outweighs the math. If I have overlooked something, then the d6-1 is a blatant winner. I know some book or another has a table for when to take the d3 and when to take the d6-1, but I can't remember which it is offhand. I want to say 5e's Ultimate Energy Projector and Ultimate Brick? Christopher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 If you want more granularity, I've toyed in the past with abilities that are 5 points = 1 DC being: - +1 point = +1 - +2 points = 1/3 d6 - +3 points = 1/2d6 - +4 points = 1d6-1 Other abilities would get the same result - just triple the point cost for a KA. This would dovetail with allowing a (separate, different colour) d6 roll with char/skill rolls. Every stat point over the 3/8 rounding breakpoint means a roll that just fails (say 14 on a 13- roll) is a success. The goal was to make every point in a characteristic mean something, however minor. Duke Bushido and Christopher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intp Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Hmm, never occurred to me that d6-1 might include zero. I like Hugh Neilson's idea, as it might encourage more variety in the STR characteristic. Can't see any reason otherwise to have, say a STR 46 TK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 d6-1 is in no way equivalent to 1/2d6, especially if playing with critical hits. The average and maximum damage are still higher. d6-1 is more accurately the opposite of d6+1. I once toyed with the idea of a 4-point-per-DC KA chart that went like this: 4 1 pip 8 1/2d6 12 1d6-1 16 1d6 20 1d6+1 24 1 1/2d6 28 2d6-1 32 2d6 36 2d6+1 etc. Never got a chance to try it out though. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 Well, here's the deal. 1d6 killing is 3.5 BODY, and is thus quite similar (for BODY purposes) to 3d6 normal. That's where the DC equivalence arises. When you go +1, +1/2 die, +1 die, the average BODY goes up by 1, 1, and 1.5. When you go +1, +die - 1, + die, the average BODY goes up by 1, 1.5, and 1. Either way you do it, there's one particular extra DC that's slightly better than the other 2. It can't be helped. So just pick whichever you prefer. Old Man: your system basically subdivides killing damage into 4 DC equivalents, but your average damage is increasing by 1, 1, 1/2, 1. Plus, you're making bonus DCs (usually martial arts) have a different value depending on whether they're applied to a normal or killing attack. And what about STR? Honestly, I'd LOVE to see killing dice simply *eliminated*. The rolls are just too swingy for my taste. I'd rather "Vs Resistant Defense only" become an Advantage just like AP, so you don't need a boatload of resistant defenses to avert a disastrous 3d6 or 4d6 KA roll. Mind, if you're playing a grittier game, then killing dice are probably fine, but in normal Supers I think they're inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 Part of the reasoning behind just making killing attacks a +¼ advantage on blast is this exact effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Stanfield Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 9:18 PM, intp said: I did a forum search and came up empty for any discussion about this with Steve Long before he left. I saw your post on the rules question thread: just so you know, Steve answers rules questions regularly. His house, however, got severely damaged during one of the recent hurricanes, and now is covered with snow, so in the mayhem he hasn’t been getting to the forums as regularly lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 I just don't use d6-1 rolls in Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 hours ago, dsatow said: I just don't use d6-1 rolls in Champions. Likewise. I usually use d6-1 to differentiate between weapons or ammo type as it adds a little more granularity in low power games and the equipment isn't bought with points. Duke Bushido and dsatow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 20 hours ago, bigbywolfe said: Likewise. I usually use d6-1 to differentiate between weapons or ammo type as it adds a little more granularity in low power games and the equipment isn't bought with points. Aaron Allston mentioned doing this for that reason in Robot Warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 I’ve been thinking about using 1D6-1 for STR damage instead of 1/2D6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Aaron Allston mentioned doing this for that reason in Robot Warriors. I'm sure I got the idea from this very forum when I was new, but good to know I am in such good company, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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