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Champions for High School D&D Players


Pariah

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I've been working on a document to introduce high school D&D players to Champions. Specifically, I wanted to address some of the fundamental differences between the two systems. Here's what I have so far. Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

--

So, how is Champions different than Dungeons and Dragons?

 

Characters are built, not rolled up.
Champions characters are created using a point build system. Each character starts with a certain number of character points, which can be used to buy powers, skills, characteristics, etc. This takes a bit longer, but creates a lot more flexibility in character design.

 

There are no character classes.
Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric, Paladin...there are no such distinctions in Champions. There are character archetypes like Brick, Energy Projector, Martial Artist, Mentalist, Gadgeteer, etc., but those distinctions aren’t defining or limiting. Want a character that is both stealthy and a great fighter--like, say, Batman or Daredevil? Build the character that way, and don’t worry about labels.

 

Characters don’t “level up”.
There’s no such thing as a “2nd-level Brick” in this system. Instead, experience comes in the form of character points--just like you use to build your character in the first place--that you can use to improve your character’s abilities as you see fit.

 

You don’t earn experience points just from combat.
Your Game Master (GM) will award experience based on what the characters accomplished during the adventure; this may or may not involve fighting the bad guys. Experience points are also awarded for exceptional role-playing, problem solving, and so on. There’s no “We wiped out the goblin village because they aren’t worth XP alive” rationale at work here.

 

You also don’t earn experience points by accumulating stuff.
Finding treasure is an important part of fantasy literature--the genre upon which D&D was based. It is not a particularly important part of the superhero genre. Unless money is a defining feature of your character’s identity--Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, etc.--nobody really cares how rich or poor your character is. And equipment? The equipment your character has is what they paid character points for.


Champions characters have liabilities as well as assets.

This is another convention of the genre. Examples include things like a Secret Identity (think Batman/Bruce Wayne), a Dependent Non-player Character (or DNPC, think Spider-Man’s Aunt May), a Vulnerability (like kryptonite to Superman), a Psychological Limitation (like Violet Parr’s shyness), and so on. In game terms, these liabilities are called Disadvantages (Disads) or Complications, and they give you more points to spend on your character’s abilities. 
 

Thoughts?

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Looks solid. 

 

I'd personally also mention that a Champions character starts strong and gets minor improvements whereas as D&D character generally starts weak and gets significant improvements.  What you start with matters, since you'll be using it for the character's lifespan.  This is also a significant part of why a Champions character takes longer to make: It's like starting at high level. 

 

I'd also suggest setting up your tone.  If you're going Silver Age, things like "Fights aren't to the death.  Killing people is bad and wrong and not heroic.  Heroes knock the villain out and arrest them, not shoot them and dump their body at the police office." in the introductory document can go a long way towards establishing the tone you want.  There's a bunch of takes on superhero out there, the last thing you want is somebody bringing The Gunisher to your idealistic Justice League-esq game. 

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11 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Looks solid. 

 

I'd personally also mention that a Champions character starts strong and gets minor improvements whereas as D&D character generally starts weak and gets significant improvements.  What you start with matters, since you'll be using it for the character's lifespan.  This is also a significant part of why a Champions character takes longer to make: It's like starting at high level. 

 

I'd also suggest setting up your tone.  If you're going Silver Age, things like "Fights aren't to the death.  Killing people is bad and wrong and not heroic.  Heroes knock the villain out and arrest them, not shoot them and dump their body at the police office." in the introductory document can go a long way towards establishing the tone you want.  There's a bunch of takes on superhero out there, the last thing you want is somebody bringing The Gunisher to your idealistic Justice League-esq game. 

amen to that

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I think that I would focus much more on the fact that you are going to play superheroes and the kind of game they are going to play. I think you can get some of that stuff in there but the high school kids I have run stuff for were far more interested in the look and feel than the rules details (that came later when they wanted to run games for each other).

 

I would establish early on the style, costumes or no costumes etc.

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55 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

I think that I would focus much more on the fact that you are going to play superheroes and the kind of game they are going to play. I think you can get some of that stuff in there but the high school kids I have run stuff for were far more interested in the look and feel than the rules details (that came later when they wanted to run games for each other).

 

I would establish early on the style, costumes or no costumes etc.

 

I was going to suggest something similar to this: explain why players might want to play a superhero genre as opposed to the fantasy genre they are used to. You may perhaps even suggest that they could still play fantasy using the same exact rules (more or less), or anything else they could imagine without limits!

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First off, I did not write this.

 

KA wrote this many moons ago and published it in a thread right here on this forum. 

 

The problem is I doubt I could find it after all these years.

 

However, as I recognized the wisdom he was bestowing on us all, I saved it to my hard drive. I now pass it on to all of you here today.

 

 

Building a Campaign for Newbies

by KA

 

 

I am basing this on the problems I have had over the years introducing new players to Champions, and some of the solutions that seem to work.

They may not work for you, but here they are.

1) Start with comics. If you don't own, and don't want to buy, the kind of comics you hope to recreate in your campaign, check your local library, or the 25 cent bin at the local comics store. Find things that very closely match the kind of world you want to have. (See below for suggestions on that)


Insist that the players do their "homework" by reading at least some of these before you even begin to create characters.


You will save yourself endless frustration if you and the players are on the same page before you get going.

2) Plan a day with each player to create their character, individually, in private, and run through at least a simple scenario.


One player at a time.


This will give you much more of a chance to get the player "into" their character. They will also be able to try out powers and see what they do, try out skills etc.


My advice would be to come up with a scenario that allows for multiple solutions.


A bank robbery with one or two hostages.
A kidnapping.
Gathering intelligence on a Viper base.


You can run each character through the same thing, since you will be doing it one player at a time.


This will give them a good idea of what their character can do, and what they might want to change.


Be sure to let them know that this is a "simulation" or something, that doesn't count in the actual campaign.


The easiest way to kill a new campaign is to have a bunch of players who don't know who their character is supposed to be and what he can do.


They all just wander about, either killing everything they meet or doing nothing at all.
Or the one "alpha male" Player starts bossing everyone around, and all the rest of the pack establish a pattern of just doing what they are told and never making any decisions.
If you let each player get the feel of their character first, without the other players around, they will act more like the teams in the comics do.

3) No matter where you want your campaign to eventually end up, I would try to start out fairly close to Silver Age.


Why?


Well for one thing, it is not hard to darken a campaign as you go along.


The players can find out that Police are corrupt, Friends can't always be trusted, etc.
 

But it is almost impossible to lighten one.


Players that aren't used to the Superheroic Genre will often act like they are The Punisher with a better gun. They will see no reason not to just kill anyone who gets in their way. Which means you will quickly have The Authority on your hands. The characters will have done things that no society would accept in the name of "right". The society will react by attempts to capture, incarcerate, or kill the characters, in turn feeding their anger and paranoia, and you will quickly end up in a showdown where the characters will either rule the Earth or be buried under it.


You need to let the players get the feel of being Heroes.


Give them the chance to actually do some good.


Don't taint every victory with some sort of negative side effect.


Some campaigns seem to run on the theory that "No good deed goes unpunished."


GM: "You know that little girl you rescued from the fire last week?


She was actually the clone of Hitler's mother. A neo-Nazi group is going to rapidly age her into a teenager and create a Fourth Reich of genetically enhanced Hitler clones that release hard radiation out of their testicles.


Even if you kill all the Radioactive Hitlers, millions of people are going to develop cancer just because they were using the subways to travel around and everything is contaminated."


Even if you don't want things to be clean and perky all the time, allow the players to actually help some people and accomplish something in the beginning.


For instance, you could have UNTIL gradually become corrupt and/or anti-metahuman over the course of the campaign, due to internal problems, outside influence, etc. rather than having the players start in a world where basically everything was against them.
Heroes struggling to do the right thing in an imperfect world, is a lot more interesting than cynical jaded beings with powers, doing morally neutral things, in a cynical jaded world.


But if the players start out feeling like "everyone is against them" they will quickly descend into a Rusty Iron Age mentality.


"Who cares what we do? Everyone hates us anyway. Let's go steal some weapons from UNTIL and start blowing things up."

4) I would start out with the idea that the team is already formed. Let the players know that they are building a Team Member, not an Individual Hero.


You can come up with the background for how and why the team formed after you know who the characters are, but make sure that the players know they are part of a team.
For some reason perfectly reasonable people can be utter bastards when it comes to this topic.


It is just like the old sitcoms where someone who has never acted before gets a bit part in a movie, and is suddenly demanding to know
"What's my motivation?"
"You're at an ice-cream stand. You walk up, and say 'Give me a vanilla cone.'
How much motivation do you need? You just want an ice cream!"
"But why do I want the ice cream?
Am I trying to recapture the innocence of my childhood?
Do I have an eating disorder?
Do I have an oral fixation?
Is the ice cream symbolic of the ever-changing state of man's existence?"

I have read stories here on the boards of GM's who were never able to get their team together.


The players just kept coming up with crap like:
"Well, sure, I hear the Police sirens, but why would I follow them? Those things go off all the time. It could just be a car theft or something. I am going to stay where I am and see if the bus station comes under attack by aliens.
After all, my character does have Xenophobia as a Psych Lim!"

"Why would I tell this person how to contact me?
I don't know them.
What if it's some kind of trick?
They could be an enemy trying to discover my Secret ID.
I am going to wait until they are distracted, and then fly into orbit.
Then I will follow a random untraceable path to the
Paranoia Cave and activate all the defense systems.
After that, I am not coming out for six weeks.
That way they can't find me."


You are much better off just telling the players how the team got to be a team and going from there. If you start up another campaign with these players some day, then you may want to roleplay it out, but with a bunch of newbies, it can be like herding cats.

5) The Inevitable "Loner"
Anyone who, during the creation process, starts down the "moody psychotic loner" path, should be asked:

a) Why is your character on this team? What does it mean to him? Since he hates all authority figures and won't work with anyone, what in his personality is so overwhelming that he puts up with being on a team? Why did he join in the first place?
Expect this to come up in play, often.


When your character wants to stalk off into the night, there should be a hook that pulls him back before he is out the door.


What is it?


Because I am not going to run an individual campaign for you while everyone else sits around and stares at the wall for three hours.


You can have that "type" of personality, but there must be a strong reason why, even though you don't like it, you stay with the team and follow orders.


Otherwise, come up with a concept that is more of a team player.

b) Why would the other team members put up with you?


If you are such a foul-tempered, uncontrollable, individualist, why would rational people with powers of their own put up with your crap?


Are you just crusty on the outside, with a "heart of gold"?


Do you bravely throw your body in the way of attacks that might kill other team members?


Are you the guy who "will not leave a team-mate behind" even if you die in the rescue attempt?


Why weren't you kicked off the team the first time you opened your mouth?


The other players aren't going to come up with reasons to put up with you, you have to come up with reasons you are worth putting up with, and then make sure you live up to them!

Anyway, hope this helps.

Good Luck!

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2 hours ago, sentry0 said:

It's a really good intro for anyone coming from D&D, not just high schoolers.

 

There's a possibility that I will be introducing a bunch of older D&D players to Champions in the new year.  I'm totally lifting this ?

The problem with this is that the OP is ASSUMING that the player of D&D today is that same as what he is addressing to.  Talking to fellow coworkers who play D&D, besides the leveling and classes to an extent, not everything mentioned applies. 

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3 hours ago, Doc Shadow said:

First off, I did not write this.

 

KA wrote this many moons ago and published it in a thread right here on this forum. 

 

The problem is I doubt I could find it after all these years.

 

However, as I recognized the wisdom he was bestowing on us all, I saved it to my hard drive. I now pass it on to all of you here today.

 

 

Building a Campaign for Newbies

by KA

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this Doc Shadow; perhaps you can add it to the downloads section - its really good advice!!

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1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

The problem with this is that the OP is ASSUMING that the player of D&D today is that same as what he is addressing to.  Talking to fellow coworkers who play D&D, besides the leveling and classes to an extent, not everything mentioned applies. 

 

Well he is pretty much spot on. 

 

Go to your FLGS and run a open game for drop in players and you get a great feel for the average modern player.  Not a game at the FLGS filled with all your regulars, but an actual table of strangers. 

 

It's one of the reasons I run less and less every year.  And haven't gotten a Champs game off the ground in a month of Sundays.

 

Closed games of hand picked players are different.  But by going turtle, role-players have surrendered the field to the various flavors of murder-hobo......

 

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I would also recommend not using terms like Golden Age, Silver Age and such to describe games. 

Every "age" had it's version of "lone killer a'kill'in the bad dudes", with some relegating it to "off screen".  Use one of those descriptors and the problem child will be able to find that one exception and then whine every session that you are "railroading him".  Using the modern gaming definition of railroading which simply means they are not the center stage and you said no to something.  

 

Instead write down the definition/meaning of the Code of the Hero as you interpret it in your game world.  Then explain it to the players up front in the first planning session.   This needs to be firmly established before the first game session.

 

Also, I recommend that you run a introduction adventure using pregenerated heroes.  Having an opportunity to experience the game in play does wonders in enabling new players to understand what they are doing during char-gen. 

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7 minutes ago, Spence said:

I would also recommend not using terms like Golden Age, Silver Age and such to describe games. 

 

 

I agree. Unless you know you're dealing with a batch of comics fans who already know, you're apt to get a "huh?" response.

Or you'll have to explain what you mean by those terms.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

In the Age of Palindromedaries

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Thank you all for your feedback; I'm in the midst of revising the original in light of all the new information I've received. In the meantime, I wrote this up to introduce potential new players to Champions Characteristics (Pre-6th, as you can see). Thoughts?

 

--

 

Champions Characteristics

 

Your character’s capabilities are defined, in part, by fourteen Characteristics. The first eight are called Primary Characteristics; they are bought up from a base value of 10, which is considered average for human characters. The last six are called Figured Characteristics; their base values are determined by the values you’ve bought for your character’s Primary Characteristics. Details are found in the rule book.

 

It’s not as confusing as it sounds. Let’s take a look at the Characteristics:

 

Strength (STR) is what you think it is: raw muscle power, lifting capacity, how much damage you’ll do to something when you strike it, and so on.

 

Dexterity (DEX) is also what you think it is: quickness, agility, and balance. It also represents how likely your character is to hit (or be hit by) another character in combat.

 

Constitution (CON) is a measure of a character’s general health and resilience. CON affects four of the six Figured Characteristics, so it’s pretty important.

 

Body (BODY) is one of the two kinds of ‘hit points’ in Champions. It represents serious, long-term damage--how much punishment a character can take before they (begin to) die. But relax; just like in the comics, heroes and villains rarely actually die in this game.

 

Intelligence (INT) is what you think it is: reasoning ability, recall, and general brainpower. It also affects Perception, how likely your character is to notice something important.

 

Ego (EGO) is strength of will and mental toughness. It is the basis of Mental combat and represents how your character responds when attacked by a Mental Power like Telepathy or Mind Control.

 

Presence (PRE) is a character’s ability to keep their cool when the people around them begin to panic. It also represents how well your character can impress, inspire, and even intimidate other characters.

 

Comeliness (COM) is how attractive your character is. It has little if any effect in combat, but can be important in some noncombat situations.

 

Physical Defense (PD) and Energy Defense (ED) represent how resistant your character is to taking damage from physical and energy attacks, respectively. In Champions, a successful attack is applied to the character’s defenses before determining how much damage is taken. The higher the PD or ED, the less damage the character takes.

 

Speed (SPD) is a measure of how often a character acts in combat. Each combat Turn is divided into twelve Segments; the SPD score determines how many (and which) of those Segments a character acts on. Speed is really expensive.

 

Recovery (REC) represents how quickly a character recovers when they are knocked out or exhausted. The REC score is added to the character’s STUN and END whenever the character takes a Segment to recover.

 

Endurance (END) is a measure of how long a character can fight before collapsing due to exhaustion. Whenever a character uses Strength or a Power, they expend END. When a character runs out of END, they must rest (recover) to get back into the fight.

 

Stun (STUN) is the other type of ‘hit points’ in Champions; it represents how much damage a character can take before being knocked unconscious. Most characters will rarely take BODY damage after defenses are applied, but characters will take STUN damage all the time.

 

Characteristics start at a base value and can be bought up with Character points. Each Characteristic has a different cost. Characters may buy up any or all Characteristics as they wish--if they have the Points to spend, that is.

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On 12/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, Pariah said:

Characters are built, not rolled up.
Champions characters are created using a point build system. Each character starts with a certain number of character points, which can be used to buy powers, skills, characteristics, etc. This takes a bit longer, but creates a lot more flexibility in character design.

FYI, there are variants of D&D that allow you to pick stats from a set.

Still not a full point buy System like Shadowrun or Hero have.

 

On 12/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, Pariah said:

There are no character classes.
Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric, Paladin...there are no such distinctions in Champions. There are character archetypes like Brick, Energy Projector, Martial Artist, Mentalist, Gadgeteer, etc., but those distinctions aren’t defining or limiting. Want a character that is both stealthy and a great fighter--like, say, Batman or Daredevil? Build the character that way, and don’t worry about labels.

While there are no strict classes, there are still archetypes. And going to far out of them will be point ineffective.

This is actually more on the plus side, as a too free System runs the issue of overwhelming you with Options.

 

On 12/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, Pariah said:

Characters don’t “level up”.
There’s no such thing as a “2nd-level Brick” in this system. Instead, experience comes in the form of character points--just like you use to build your character in the first place--that you can use to improve your character’s abilities as you see fit. 

Overall the Power Curve is flatter too. You start at a respectable level, then do not improove too much.

 

On 12/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, Pariah said:

You don’t earn experience points just from combat.
Your Game Master (GM) will award experience based on what the characters accomplished during the adventure; this may or may not involve fighting the bad guys. Experience points are also awarded for exceptional role-playing, problem solving, and so on. There’s no “We wiped out the goblin village because they aren’t worth XP alive” rationale at work here.

Note that D&D can be handeled the exact same way. You get XP for overcomming a challenge. Wich can include actions other then fighting them tooth and nail.

 

On 12/22/2018 at 8:37 PM, Pariah said:

You also don’t earn experience points by accumulating stuff.
Finding treasure is an important part of fantasy literature--the genre upon which D&D was based. It is not a particularly important part of the superhero genre. Unless money is a defining feature of your character’s identity--Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, etc.--nobody really cares how rich or poor your character is. And equipment? The equipment your character has is what they paid character points for.

This is one of the biggest - if not the biggest difference. You generally only got to use what you paid points for, with some rare exceptions. There is no "loot & level".

 

Now I think the big difference is Combat resolution:

- Armor and most defenses decrease damage/status effects directly, replacing the need for saving throws

- the main damage you take and deal in Superheroic is STUN damage. At least in most settings

- there is nearly no absolute effects like instant deaths (GM territory excluded)

- you get less attacks per action, but they do mater more

- there are plenty of options to deal with enemies other then dealing damage (Grab, Knockback, Entangles)

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   I’ve mentioned this before in other posts but as a GM I’ve found that the best way to immediately engage a new player is to ask them  “What’s your favorite superhero?” and then have them play that.   Either that exact character or a close version of it, whichever your campaign prefers. The new player immediately has a good grasp on how the powers work and how the character behaves.

  It speeds up the process of explaining for how the entire system works and gets everyone involved quickly. They may only play that Spider-Man expy a few times before wanting to try coming up with an idea of their own. Or they may be more like me who played my original Greatest American Hero clone off and on for my entire gaming career. (Among many other characters)

 

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13 minutes ago, Tjack said:

   I’ve mentioned this before in other posts but as a GM I’ve found that the best way to immediately engage a new player is to ask them  “What’s your favorite superhero?” and then have them play that.   Either that exact character or a close version of it, whichever your campaign prefers. The new player immediately has a good grasp on how the powers work and how the character behaves.

  It speeds up the process of explaining for how the entire system works and gets everyone involved quickly. They may only play that Spider-Man expy a few times before wanting to try coming up with an idea of their own. Or they may be more like me who played my original Greatest American Hero clone off and on for my entire gaming career. (Among many other characters)

 

 

It can also backfire badly. 

A PC built on standard superhero points will not be the 50 gazzilian point superhero in the comic. 

 

Not that anything you said is incorrect.  But I have had it backfire more than succeed. 

 

My most successful process is this:

 

1) Run a mini-arc with all the players using pre-gen heroes.  This gives them a taste of how the game actually works.

 

2) Ask them what type of character they really want to play.  Maybe based on a favorite hero, maybe a unique one.   Have them jot down some notes and then I say.  "Great! But we are not going to make this one today.  Instead we'll hold these notes and make a different PC and play a short two scenario game, this way you can see the difference between what you thought you built and what you really built and how it works in game".  Then we play.

 

3) Then after they have an idea of how to build a PC.  They can actually build the PC concept they actually wanted.

 

Sure it is a few steps, but you avoid the frustration of unmanaged expectations or disappointment at the start.  It also avoids "ruining" a character concept.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Spence said:

Sure it is a few steps, but you avoid the frustration of unmanaged expectations or disappointment at the start.  It also avoids "ruining" a character concept.

To play double's advocate, you also introduce the frustration of "I want to play Donut Steel, my original superhero!  No, I didn't really want to play Colossus.  No, I didn't really want to make ThunderHammer (no relation to Thor).  Just lemme play Donut Steel already!"

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12 hours ago, Tjack said:

   I’ve mentioned this before in other posts but as a GM I’ve found that the best way to immediately engage a new player is to ask them  “What’s your favorite superhero?” and then have them play that.   Either that exact character or a close version of it, whichever your campaign prefers. The new player immediately has a good grasp on how the powers work and how the character behaves.

  It speeds up the process of explaining for how the entire system works and gets everyone involved quickly. They may only play that Spider-Man expy a few times before wanting to try coming up with an idea of their own. Or they may be more like me who played my original Greatest American Hero clone off and on for my entire gaming career. (Among many other characters) 

  

 

11 hours ago, Spence said:

 

It can also backfire badly. 

A PC built on standard superhero points will not be the 50 gazzilian point superhero in the comic. 

 

Not that anything you said is incorrect.  But I have had it backfire more than succeed.  

  

My most successful process is this:

 

1) Run a mini-arc with all the players using pre-gen heroes.  This gives them a taste of how the game actually works.

 

2) Ask them what type of character they really want to play.  Maybe based on a favorite hero, maybe a unique one.   Have them jot down some notes and then I say.  "Great! But we are not going to make this one today.  Instead we'll hold these notes and make a different PC and play a short two scenario game, this way you can see the difference between what you thought you built and what you really built and how it works in game".  Then we play.

 

3) Then after they have an idea of how to build a PC.  They can actually build the PC concept they actually wanted.

 

Sure it is a few steps, but you avoid the frustration of unmanaged expectations or disappointment at the start.  It also avoids "ruining" a character concept.

 

 

Indeed there are...

...some pitfalls of Translating Characters from Fiction to a RPG setting and the secrect of making non-combat stuff fun in hero

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   Sorry for the confusion, but I meant to imply that if the player wishes to play  let’s say a Batman type. The GM writes it up with him stressing that this will be a “Year One” version, being built on only a starting number of points and use the writing up process as a demonstration of how the rules work.

   The new player can get a better overview of how and why things like OIF operate since he will have seen what happens when the Joker takes away Batman’s utility belt. Also they can feel a connection to that first character if they have some input in the building of it, rather than just being given a hand-out.

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