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Aquaman Spoiler Thread

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14 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I haven't seen Aquaman to comment on it, but get back to me when he kills an entire city because he can't figure out its a good idea to fight the supervillain somewhere other than downtown.

 

13 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

To be fair, Zod was a general and experienced combatant. If anyone is going to control the location of the battle, it's him, not Clark. Though it would have been nice to show Superman at least make the attempt, which I don't recall happening. (It's been a long while since I've seen it though.) 

Just stop with those Arguments already. They have been debunked for 3 years now:

 

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14 minutes ago, death tribble said:

Having seen the video I don't agree with their debunking. I believe it to be flawed. 

Their Argument is that "Superman never even tried to move hte fight elsewhere". Wich the video explains to be wrong.

 

21:56 is where this particular argument is debunked.

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16 hours ago, Christopher said:

Their Argument is that "Superman never even tried to move hte fight elsewhere". Wich the video explains to be wrong.

 

You might try to understand what is being said before restating it incorrectly.

 

On 1/3/2019 at 1:47 PM, Pattern Ghost said:

which I don't recall happening. (It's been a long while since I've seen it though.)

 

My main point was that Zod would be better at controlling the location of the battle, which is found in my first sentence.

 

I know English isn't your first language, but please try to avoid putting words in my mouth.

 

Edit: As to the argument in the video: No, the YouTuber states reasons why Superman didn't try to move the battle in Metropolis, which is the major concern. (And he wasn't really trying to move the battle in the earlier fight with the henchmen.) It's post facto fanboy rationalization.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Edit: As to the argument in the video: No, the YouTuber states reasons why Superman didn't try to move the battle in Metropolis, which is the major concern. (And he wasn't really trying to move the battle in the earlier fight with the henchmen.) It's post facto fanboy rationalization. 

As long as you keep repeating that lie, I will keep repeating it is a lie and expose it.

The evidence that he tried to move the fight is ample. We literally have Video proof of it:

https://youtu.be/OZeqQlmOPgs?t=1316

 

If you somehow think Zod or Ursa would not have turned around to attack Civilians to draw him back in, then you are just a hater trying to justify his hate.

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The DVD for Aquaman?  Yes, definitely!  To me, this was easily the best DC movie so far.  Wonder Woman was a step in the right direction and Aquaman really moved the whole franchise away from the dark, grim look that they'd been using.

 

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On 1/2/2019 at 1:56 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

I think people remember all the people that were murdered or died horribly for no good reason other than THIS WILL BE EPIC AND DARK, and that offsets any heroism that might have incidentally happened.

 

On 1/3/2019 at 10:38 AM, Christopher said:

You mean like all those people that died in the Floodwaves? Or all the parts of the subcrew that did not make it to the Torpedo Room?

Oceanmaster propably killed way more people then Zod, Steppenwolf and 1 month of Joker crimes combined. All with just one attack and some little sub-surface warfare.

 

Apparently if the person that dies is not shown, it is lighthearted action instead of "dark"?

 

I have not watched all of the Batman and Superman movies, so maybe I am overlooking a scene.

 

However, doesn't a scene where a Hero who is in no imminent danger, and has plenty of time to save the bystanders around him, who looks someone pleading with him to help a trapped person who will die in minutes if not freed, and saying "Screw you - you got yourselves into this mess, I'm not lifting a finger to help.  You can either figure out a way to save your father, leave him to die, or watch him die and maybe die yourself in the process.  Hey, maybe your Dad will off himself to force you to save your own life." seem at least somewhat grim and dark?

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2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

I have not watched all of the Batman and Superman movies, so maybe I am overlooking a scene.

 

However, doesn't a scene where a Hero who is in no imminent danger, and has plenty of time to save the bystanders around him, who looks someone pleading with him to help a trapped person who will die in minutes if not freed, and saying "Screw you - you got yourselves into this mess, I'm not lifting a finger to help.  You can either figure out a way to save your father, leave him to die, or watch him die and maybe die yourself in the process.  Hey, maybe your Dad will off himself to force you to save your own life." seem at least somewhat grim and dark?

Yes, and they even discuss it later in the movie and he says he made an enemy and regrets his decision. And when he and Mera talk about it, you can see how much it bothers him that he would make that decision. Not something you see in the other movies as much, though Superman obviously anguishes over having to kill Zod.

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3 hours ago, slikmar said:

Yes, and they even discuss it later in the movie and he says he made an enemy and regrets his decision. And when he and Mera talk about it, you can see how much it bothers him that he would make that decision. Not something you see in the other movies as much, though Superman obviously anguishes over having to kill Zod.

 

He took ownership of the decision, and regretted it.  That does not make it bright and cheery, though.  I think it does reflect Aquaman as a hero who is growing, and learning from his mistakes.  I have to wonder why we're willing to give Aquaman the right to make mistakes, but not other characters. 

 

Good old cheery, bright Spidey would not be who he is if he had grabbed that burglar running past  him, instead of deciding that was not his problem. 

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Lets be honest, DC was on the wrong track as soon as Clark let his dad die instead of saying screw the consequences and saving him. At least in most histories of dupes, it's a heart attack that takes dad and part of his character is, I couldn't save him, but I will save everyone I can. Granted that was Snyder trying to change who Clark was in canon, but sheesh.

Comparing that to Spidey letting the crook go, I like to think if that crook had been putting someone in immediate danger, he would have nabbed him. Snyder's superman apparently wouldn't have if as a teen it would have given him away.

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3 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

He took ownership of the decision, and regretted it.  That does not make it bright and cheery, though.  I think it does reflect Aquaman as a hero who is growing, and learning from his mistakes.  I have to wonder why we're willing to give Aquaman the right to make mistakes, but not other characters. 

 

Good old cheery, bright Spidey would not be who he is if he had grabbed that burglar running past  him, instead of deciding that was not his problem. 

 

Aquaman is a hero but he has never been regarded as a moral paragon whereas "Do not Kill" is woven into the Superman and Batman mythos. We hold them to a higher standard because it's a big part of what both characters represent. Snyder though, he got started in comic book movies with the two of the most successful deconstructionist comics out there, 300 and Watchmen, and did Dark Knight Returns as his followup.  Grim and dark was what he thought the industry was all about.

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I don't disagree with anything that's been said.  There were a lot of deaths in Aquaman, including some that he could have prevented.

 

It occurred to me today while discussing the movie with a coworker that it wasn't the dark way the previous movies were shot that bugged me so much . . . it was that they didn't seem to offer any hope for a world better than what was portrayed in the movie.

 

Wonder Woman (the character, and therefore the movie) seemed to provide a bit of hope that the whole world wasn't just "kill or be killed".  One of the main themes in Aquaman is that he's providing hope that the surface world and Atlantis can get along, if not actually cooperate.  *That's* why I liked this movie.

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If we're still doing spoilers here, I'd like to put up one I wish someone had spoiled for me:

 

The movie is a cartoon.  I didn't bother stopwarching it, but I feel confident in saying the scenes without CGI could possibly take as much as twenty minutes total screen time.  The scenes with no or barely any live action couldn't compress into an hour. 

The rest of the movie is technically a mixture, but the animation overwhelms most of anything else. 

 

Strangely, I think I would have enjoyed it more as a straight-up cartoon.  I _hated_ Roger Rabbit. 

 

Am I movie critic?  No. 

 

But should my opinion carry sway and clout because I know what's good and what's not?  Again; no. 

 

Am I going to belabor the point that most of the people who went to see seem to enjoy it, or tell them that they are wrong with eighty-five movie citations and a laundry list of comments pulled from other web sites?  You bet your sweet bippy I'm not. 

 

I just wanted to caution anyone else who might be put off by that cartoon with a couple of people in it kind of thing. 

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It's not so much that I mind working in some animation.  For example, I'm pretty sure Ironman didn't actually fly. 

 

But when the entire movie is animation, wrapped around a couple of actors--  it just loses something.  It becomes much, much more difficult for me to suspend disbelief. 

 

Wonder Woman crushed me: it was absolutely incredible (thoroughly loved it) right up until the climax, where she spends twenty minutes fighting the wind in a valiant struggle to kill an animation.  Extremely unsatisfying. 

 

Again, maybe it's just me.  But I actually _am_ an expert in what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy, so I can say with some authority that watching real characters beat up cartoon characters just leaves cold and annoyed.   (same problem with Justice League, now that I think about it, and that Batman/Superman movie.  Both far more enjoyable than I expected, right up until the climax when they attacked giant cartoon characters.  And who decided to model Steppenwolf on Bull from Night Court?) 

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Wonder Woman crushed me: it was absolutely incredible (thoroughly loved it) right up until the climax, where she spends twenty minutes fighting the wind in a valiant struggle to kill an animation.  Extremely unsatisfying. 

 

I agree, the final climactic scene of Wonder Woman was its weakest part.

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7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

But when the entire movie is animation, wrapped around a couple of actors--  it just loses something.  It becomes much, much more difficult for me to suspend disbelief. 

 

 

I agree.  However, I knew going in that a comic book superhero epic that mostly takes place underwater was probably going to have a lot of CGI.

 

In fact, between the CGI and the slightly-over-the-top plot, this felt like the comic-bookiest comic book film I've seen in a long time.

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