Golden Age

[Doc Democracy]

yeah, the comics needed to not step on the real life heroes. I guess a game is not limited in that way.

 

I think the need to keep the home country safe drives the military, too far away and the opportunity for metahumans to be overpowered increases and weakens potential defence against Nazi meta attacks.

 

I might make use of an oracle for this, influencing both Berlin and London.

[Doc Democracy]

I now have the last bid for a character.  My next job will be to work on character sheets, build their backgrounds and begin working towards our game, possibly before Easter when our current game (Mutant Year Zero) finishes.

Roddy Reyburn

Towards the end of WW1, desperate in the face of defeat, a group of German occultists attempted to draw on the power of the vast number of souls dying on the battlefield to summon and bind the god Set from the underworld.   This did not go to plan (they only knew part of the ritual, a shell landed near their position etc) and they ended up trapping the god’s power in a ruby embedded in an ankh hanging on a chain round Roddy’s neck – left to him by his father a noted Egyptologist – who was leading his men in a desperate charge but a 100 yards away.  Burning with power the ruby ankh fused itself into Roddy’s chest.

Powers

Turn into a large crocodile/ or humanoid crocodile hybrid? – swim/breath underwater, bite/grab attack

Harness the (cough, unholy) power of Set: (possibly a multipower – so only one at a time?) either use to fly (the living earth rejects the aura of Set and pushes him away); or hurl bolts of dark power; or command the unliving (or crocodiles).

Blessed by the divine: strong/tough plus heightened senses and persuasiveness and/or intimidation?

[Christopher]

11 hours ago, massey said:

As far as a reason why the war isn't just a battle between supers, I have a suggestion.

 

Nobody really knows how powerful they are.  Even an invulnerable brick isn't really keen on finding out how invulnerable he really is.  After all, how do you test to see if tank shells bounce off your face?  It's not something that the Allies are willing to risk.  Even once the PCs are convinced they can do more, Allied command is resistant.  They don't want their heroes running off and getting killed (and like all good patriots, the heroes will say anything to get to go to the front lines -- including lying about being invulnerable).  So the answer is always "no", at least until you decide the war is looking grim enough.

 

Combine that with keeping the power sets in check.  Cross-country travel in minutes combined with super-strength, amazing senses, and invulnerability means that the war should be over tomorrow.  Superman should have been able to hover over the Atlantic ocean and throw bombs at Hitler's house.  Just make sure that the heroes don't have any of those war-ending power combinations.

 

Finally, give Hitler some bodyguards.  He's got a handful of supers who guard Germany, the (go go Google translate) Blitzengruppe.  The Allies did send a few heroes to try and end the war (powerful ones too), and the Blitzengruppe sent back their heads.  People don't know too much about them, or how powerful they are.  They don't have to be stronger than the PCs, in fact they probably shouldn't be.  But these are the very early days of super combat, and nobody really understands things like how powers interact with each other.  A guy with 20 rPD is completely invincible, he can shrug off a bazooka.  Who would think to see if he's resistant to energy damage as well?  The Nazis got lucky with a couple of bad matchups, and now Allied command is terrified of them.  Of course the heroes will be more well-rounded by the time they face the Blitzengruppe, and they'll win that fight.

Another Webcomic came to my mind - The Specialists:
https://thespecialistscomic.com/comic/cover/

Alternate history with Superhumans in WW2.The American Supers suffer what I would theme the "First Avenger effect". They are restricted to the homefront as moral boosters. Until the Storyline changes that.

 

 

[bubba smith]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:24 AM, Christopher said:

Okay, should have said "Superhumans".

or super AGENTS

[Christopher R Taylor]

Also its possible that both sides fear what will happen if the unleash supers in war.  War is bad for human psyche and who knows what might happen?  Give them the authority and power to kill and let them have autonomy (in the Axis powers) and they might decide to just take over.  So they are withheld and used only in special actions rather than in the front.

[massey]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Also its possible that both sides fear what will happen if the unleash supers in war.  War is bad for human psyche and who knows what might happen?  Give them the authority and power to kill and let them have autonomy (in the Axis powers) and they might decide to just take over.  So they are withheld and used only in special actions rather than in the front.

 

Oh, good idea.  Hitler was apparently horrified by the use of poison gas in WWI, so he didn’t use it (against soldiers, that is).  Maybe in this timeline there were a handful of superhumans in the First World War, and so everybody decides to hold them back in this one.

[Doc Democracy]

I like that idea, the problem is not meta-humans that are taught to kill in war, it is what happens to them in peacetime.  The ones that came home having slaughtered hundreds of people, sometimes with their bare hands...

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah its one thing to have Joe Average come back with PTSD or hardened conscience from war, but when you can tear a tank in half?

[Duke Bushido]

On 1/4/2019 at 4:35 AM, Doc Democracy said:

 

Harness the (cough, unholy) power of Set:

 

 

I don't know if it's of any use to you, but grammatically-speaking (pardon the pun), you aren't obligated to consider it unholy unless you are a devotee of some other deity, in which case you would be expected to do so.

[Christopher]

12 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Also its possible that both sides fear what will happen if the unleash supers in war.  War is bad for human psyche and who knows what might happen?  Give them the authority and power to kill and let them have autonomy (in the Axis powers) and they might decide to just take over.  So they are withheld and used only in special actions rather than in the front. 

Anther thing to fear is:
What if  we loose the bulk of our supers? Unlike normal soldiers, you can not just throw in another guy to replace anyone you lost.

Compare it to the strategy called "Fleet in Being":
" In naval warfare, a "fleet in being" is a naval force that extends a controlling influence without ever leaving port. Were the fleet to leave port and face the enemy, it might lose in battle and no longer influence the enemy's actions, but while it remains safely in port, the enemy is forced to continually deploy forces to guard against it. A "fleet in being" can be part of a sea denial doctrine, but not one of sea control. "

 

If two Nation Teams fight and one side looses half their Supers, that is a half the Nation Supers gone. The "Team in being" would no longer work.

 

11 hours ago, massey said:

 

Oh, good idea.  Hitler was apparently horrified by the use of poison gas in WWI, so he didn’t use it (against soldiers, that is).  Maybe in this timeline there were a handful of superhumans in the First World War, and so everybody decides to hold them back in this one. 

Way easier:
Hitler was genuinely Paranoid of a takeover. And justified so - there are (no joke) 42 Documented Assasination attempts on him. With a unknown number of Undocumented ones.

Ironically the allies ware about as afraid of a takeover. The last thing the leadership wanted was a german surrender and another "Stab in the Back" myth. Unconditional Surrender was the only acceptable outcome. And only he would have driven the war that far.

 

Of course Hitler was also a madman about racial/genetic Purity. It could be well that he hunted down the german supers, using dedicated Killsquads of the SS. Something that would be a challenge for the Heroes of other nations.

If the Arian is already the "Übermensch", no Superhuman above that can be tollerated!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah from the Axis perspective, they're all tyrants so they would not want their supers to get out of control and take over.  Given the Nazi philosophy and ethos, it only makes sense for the strongest to be in charge, so you have to keep your supers on a tight leash.  And all tyrants are paranoid about being killed or replaced (they project their ideals on all others).  

 

From the Allied perspective, worries about what was then called Shell Shock and concerns over losing a valuable asset would limit their use as well.  Plus, escalation.  If you throw your supers at the enemy, they throw theirs back at you and it gets out of control.

 

Or you could just keep it in the Golden Age mood and just say they are needed at home and there's no time to get into the main war, but hopefully some day soon.

[Darren Watts]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:13 AM, Doc Shadow said:

For books I'd strongly advise getting the GURPS World War Two series. Particularly the main book and the supplement "All The King's Men". They are chock full of the sort of background materiel that you don't find in Golden Age Champions. You know, the useful kind.

 

Well, hey, thanks for that. dw

[Lord Liaden]

Yeah, I have to say, that last sentence comes across as kind of a cheap shot.

[Duke Bushido]

Totally off the subject, but if I may ask:

 

Darren:

 

Is that luchadors in suit coats in your avatar?

 

If so:

 

Awesome.

 

If not, don't tell me.  It's going to be luchadors in suit coats forever. 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Given that Darren is the author of Lucha Libre Hero, I'd say that's both extremely likely and quite appropriate. To me that certainly looks like a photo of El Santo and Blue Demon. They often appeared in their movies in street clothes, but kept their masks on.

[steriaca]

9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Given that Darren is the author of Lucha Libre Hero, I'd say that's both extremely likely and quite appropriate. To me, that certainly looks like a photo of El Santo and Blue Demon. They often appeared in their movies in street clothes, but kept their masks on.

The idea is that in the "Luchaverse", it is dishonorable for a luchador to be seen without there mask. There mask is their life.

 

Topic drift, unless we are talking about Golden Age luchador superheros/hombre mysterioes (mystery men).

[Lord Liaden]

Yeah, sorry for drifting. Although I'll just add that in the official Champions Universe timeline, the greatest Mexican hero of the 1950s and 60s was the masked wrestler called El Espectro.   IIRC he's also an NPC in Lucha Libre Hero.

[Netzilla]

Not much to add other than the fact that I'm currently running my own Golden Age campaign.  So, my answers to some of the issues this thread has raised.

 

Why isn't WWII just one big super-being battle?  For one thing, I kept the campaign at the Low Powered Supers level (300 points no resistant DEF over 10), which means that the heroes are still slightly vulnerable to small-arms fire and very vulnerable to anti-tank fire.  In addition, the countries involved view their supers as much as propaganda tools as anything else and so only use them defensively, when it's relatively "safe" (such as the Germans unleashing their supers in France only after the tanks and infantry had already done the bulk of the work and all that was left was mopping up) or for 'special-ops' type missions.

 

For my British super-team, I'm going to put this behind a spoiler block as SCUBAHero is in my campaign.

 

 

• Ireland is represented by Biróg a decedent of the legendary druidess of the Tuatha De Danann.
• Scotland will represented by a lower-powered Cateran (changing official CU history slightly by having her openly fighting for the UK rather than disguising herself as a man and enlisting).
• Similarly, Aquarius (of the old Zodiac Conspiracy and also lower-powered) is fighting on the side of the allies under the name 'Storm Lord'.  He's still an arrogant prick but at least he's our arrogant prick.
• Union Jack is the result of the British side of the super soldier experiments.
• Depending on what exactly happens in the current mission, there will be a Arthurian-knight style character who comes about as a counter-point to a newly arising villain.  Don't have a good name for him yet, though.
• I haven't gotten a Welsh representative yet, but the team still isn't fully fleshed out either.

[massey]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that governments really don't know what to do with supers.  A lot of people may not even believe that super-powered folks are real.  This problem could be exacerbated by some of the "masked men" who run around fighting crime without powers.  When guys like the Red Bee and Air Wave are out there in costume, how is an Army general supposed to distinguish them from Superman and the Flash?  Obviously two of them have powers and two of them don't, but wild exaggerated reports probably exist about a lot of these characters.

 

I think it would be very "Golden Age" (and maybe a bit Silver) to have a government official go out to meet some of these heroes to see what they can do.  And you start off with a couple of costumed bozos who are reasonably athletic and can take a punch, but they're just 150 point guys in spandex with no real superpowers.  Then you go to a few illusionist types (Dr Mysterio the Great!) who are impressive at first, but then there's a gust of wind or something that blows the smoke away and the general sees through their trick.  By the time you get to Superman and the other guys who have real powers, the general thinks the whole thing is a scam and he's made up his mind.  Everything Superman does, he thinks is fake (lifting fake weights, getting shot with fake bullets, etc).  And if Supes does something that can't be explained (like flying), the general just happens to bend over and tie his shoes or something at that moment.  He ends up leaving before the event is finished and sends his report to Washington saying these guys are a bunch of phoneys.  That's how they'd do it in an old comic book, though you could certainly do it in a less coincidental and more realistic way.

 

Even if you don't want to use that kind of cheesy comic-book scenario, I think it's quite reasonable to say that people in the government just haven't wrapped their minds around the concept of superheroes.  You might as well ask the CEO of Sears in 1994 what the company's internet strategy is going to be.  Something that's obvious to us in hindsight might not be obvious at all to the people of the day.  Now in real life, there was a "What If?" style story back in like 1940 where Superman captured Hitler and Stalin in a few panels.  So even then the readers knew that he could end the war in an afternoon if the writers would let him.  But I think the reaction of people in the "real world" (where the comics don't exist and you just hear about the characters in news reports).  Reading "Superman stops bank robbers!" or "Superman rescues trapped miners!" doesn't really give you an understanding of how Oh My God powerful he really is.

 

I think late in the war, when Germany is doing better than they did in real life (due to spies, War Wheels, and other wonder weapons), that's when FDR puts his foot down and says "send in the superheroes".

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, Netzilla said:

Not much to add other than the fact that I'm currently running my own Golden Age campaign.  So, my answers to some of the issues this thread has raised.

 

Why isn't WWII just one big super-being battle?  For one thing, I kept the campaign at the Low Powered Supers level (300 points no resistant DEF over 10), which means that the heroes are still slightly vulnerable to small-arms fire and very vulnerable to anti-tank fire.  In addition, the countries involved view their supers as much as propaganda tools as anything else and so only use them defensively, when it's relatively "safe" (such as the Germans unleashing their supers in France only after the tanks and infantry had already done the bulk of the work and all that was left was mopping up) or for 'special-ops' type missions.

 

For my British super-team, I'm going to put this behind a spoiler block as SCUBAHero is in my campaign.

 

  Hide contents

• Ireland is represented by Biróg a decedent of the legendary druidess of the Tuatha De Danann.
• Scotland will represented by a lower-powered Cateran (changing official CU history slightly by having her openly fighting for the UK rather than disguising herself as a man and enlisting).
• Similarly, Aquarius (of the old Zodiac Conspiracy and also lower-powered) is fighting on the side of the allies under the name 'Storm Lord'.  He's still an arrogant prick but at least he's our arrogant prick.
• Union Jack is the result of the British side of the super soldier experiments.
• Depending on what exactly happens in the current mission, there will be a Arthurian-knight style character who comes about as a counter-point to a newly arising villain.  Don't have a good name for him yet, though.
• I haven't gotten a Welsh representative yet, but the team still isn't fully fleshed out either.

You can 'borrow' the Blue Knight name. As for Welsh, Red Dragon could be borrowed also.

[Doc Democracy]

Always be aware that Ireland was neutral in the war and so the divide between the Republic and the six counties (Northern Ireland) is an important one.  There will be heroes from the six counties that count themselves as British, some that count themselves as Irish and may be considered villains by the British while those in the Republic are officially neutral.

 

The Republic fought and won a war of independence from Britain less than twenty years before and immediately fought a civil war that leaves it a bit battered and bruised and trying to find its own identity.  Lots of potential for fights between those considered heroes...though this would not deliver the Golden Age feel that I want in my campaign.

 

Doc

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

For one thing, I kept the campaign at the Low Powered Supers level (300 points no resistant DEF over 10), which means that the heroes are still slightly vulnerable to small-arms fire and very vulnerable to anti-tank fire. 
 

Yeah I think that's my preference.  I like lower powered campaigns, particularly in that time frame (I mean, yes, there were cosmic powered characters back then like Superman, Captain Marvel, and Specter but the rest were pretty modest in power, even the Flash).

[Darren Watts]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:25 PM, Duke Bushido said:

Totally off the subject, but if I may ask:

 

Darren:

 

Is that luchadors in suit coats in your avatar?

 

If so:

 

Awesome.

 

If not, don't tell me.  It's going to be luchadors in suit coats forever. 

 

 

It's Santo and Blue Demon from Contra Dracula Y El Hombre Lobo, which is probably my personal fave. IIRC, it's right before they play a mean game of chess against each other while standing guard at the professor's mansion. dw

[Doc Shadow]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:08 AM, Lord Liaden said:

Yeah, I have to say, that last sentence comes across as kind of a cheap shot.

 

You call it "cheap", I call it honest.

 

Having actually bought the book, I paid for that privilege. I have all three editions of Golden Age Champions. The first and second are far superior.  

 

I'm sorry, I would much rather be able to say it was great. Just what I wanted.

 

But it wasn't, and I'm not going to lie about it.

 

The Emperor has no clothes.

[DreadDomain]

1 hour ago, Doc Shadow said:

 

You call it "cheap", I call it honest.

 

Having actually bought the book, I paid for that privilege. I have all three editions of Golden Age Champions. The first and second are far superior.  

 

I'm sorry, I would much rather be able to say it was great. Just what I wanted.

 

But it wasn't, and I'm not going to lie about it.

 

The Emperor has no clothes.

In your opinion bro and your totally entitled to it. I personally much much prefer the latest edition of Golden Age over the former editions. The cover is okay-ish and I was bummed we didn't get to the full colour stretch goal but I thought the writing was excellent and engaging and really gave me a sense that I wanted to play in Golden Age game again.

 

Now did it have the same level of information on WWII compared to GURPS WWII? Of course not but they have a totally different focus. Sure they share a time period and a significant historical event but as their titles suggest, one focuses on describing the historical event itself and the other covers superheroes in the 30s and 40s. Both are great but for totally different reasons.

 

That being said, it prompts me to reopen the previous edition of Golden Age just for fun.