Third Edition Renaissance

[Pariah]

I have something a little different in the works. I hope to post it in the next day or two....

[Pariah]

Okay, here we go.

 

The Geodesics were a villain group created by Glenn Thain and published in the 1982 supplement Enemies II (the same book that introduced Foxbat and Eurostar, by the way). As far as I know, they never migrated to any later editions, but I always had a soft spot for them. I updated them for a 4th Ed campaign, then again for a 5th Ed campaign. (I didn't play 6th Ed enough to have a reason to do so.)

 

But I've always felt they were a little underpowered. Their point values ranged from 200 to 216 (under 3rd Ed rules), so I always beefed them up a bit before use. So now, after all these years, I've come back to 3rd Edition and brought them all up to 250 points. Enjoy! (Also included is original artwork via the DC Animated Hero Machine website. I could never hope to duplicate the amazing work of Mark Williams.)

 

Ultraviolet

 

 

Dart

 

 

Diamond

 

 

Orb

[assault]

There was an implication in 1e that starting PCs should be around 200 points. In practice that didn't happen very often.

 

The Geodesics, and other early low point characters, would have been suitable opponents for such PCs.

[Spence]

57 minutes ago, assault said:

There was an implication in 1e that starting PCs should be around 200 points. In practice that didn't happen very often.

 

The Geodesics, and other early low point characters, would have been suitable opponents for such PCs.

 

We played at 270pts for 1st and 2nd edition. 

[assault]

Yes. The 200 point implication came from the character design examples - Crusader, Starburst and Ogre. The other example characters were mainly built on  a few more.

 

But no explicit statement was made, leading to every group setting their own standards, usually on higher totals.

 

2e did explicitly recommend around 225, but the damage had already been done. The 3e suggestion of 250 seems to have been more effective, and the 4e standard (also 250) seems to have been fairly widely observed.

 

In any case, the Geodesics fell behind in power more or less from the beginning.

[Pariah]

My first GM (3rd Ed) had us start with 250. He was also something of a powergamer, so characters he helped us create were often more effective than the point totals suggested.

 

I was once involved in a campaign that started at a strict limit of 200, though. It was fun, as it forced us to focus on strategy to make up for the things we couldn't afford to buy at the beginning. That GM was pretty liberal with XP, though, so after a few months we were all pretty much back at the more familiar power levels. I will say this: A character built on 200 with 75 XP looks quite different than a character built on 250 with 25 XP.

[Sketchpad]

We always played at 250 back in the 1e-4e days. Villains like the Geodesics were played as chump villains for a time. When I started running 4e, I remade some of the old villains, including the Geodesics. IIRC (it's been a bit), I believe that they came out to around 350 each, and had some pretty solid teamwork abilities. 

[Chris Goodwin]

We always had ranges, like 200-225 and 225-250.  The high end was always the max.  

[Duke Bushido]

On September 30, 2019 at 11:35 PM, assault said:

Yes. The 200 point implication came from the character design examples - Crusader, Starburst and Ogre. The other example characters were mainly built on  a few more.

 

But no explicit statement was made, leading to every group setting their own standards, usually on higher totals.

 

2e did explicitly recommend around 225, but the damage had already been done. The 3e suggestion of 250 seems to have been more effective, and the 4e standard (also 250) seems to have been fairly widely observed.

 

In any case, the Geodesics fell behind in power more or less from the beginning.

 

 

I don't remember the recommendation for 4e, but two and three e both recommended 100 pts plus up to 150 in Disads, for a limit of 250 pts for a starting character.

 

4 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

We always had ranges, like 200-225 and 225-250.  The high end was always the max.  

 

 

This was us, too.  Still is, really: ranges.

 

I was honestly surprised in a conversation about "the missing stat that shall not be named" I was enjoying a while back with Hugh and some of the others to hear the term "dump stat" in a points-build game.  Over the course of that conversation, I learned that most people build right up to the very point limit, period.

 

Still kind of blows my mind a bit, but that conversation did help me to understand why so many people think character building is more complicated than it actually is:  Crap!  I need a two-point disad, and there's nothing else I really want.  And where do I spend those two points?  I'm not seeing any breakpoints at 2....

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

250 point was our cap, in the beginning.  it was 200 points then you bought disads. This is why my longest running Champiosn Character started at 241 opts.

[assault]

6 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I don't remember the recommendation for 4e, but two and three e both recommended 100 pts plus up to 150 in Disads, for a limit of 250 pts for a starting character.

 

My 2e reference was to page 71, under "Reasonable Characters", where it says:

"If you start your campaign at a beginning power level of 225 pts. per character, some general guidelines on characters are possible."

 

3e has virtually identical text, except that it says 250. Also, nearly all the example characters are built on 250 points.

 

Most of the 4e example characters are on 250 as well. Also, in the section of example campaign sheets, the "standard champions" sheet gives 250 for starting characters.

 

Neither 2e or 3e had maximum values for characters that I can recall.

[Duke Bushido]

No, Sir; they did not.  

[Pariah]

Sorry I've been away. I doubt I'm going to be doing any additional write-ups soon due to school demands. Maybe in January....

 

(Of course, I may have a copy of Champions Now by then, so maybe I'll be making characters for that by then.)

[fdw3773]

After reviewing the challenges I had with introducing Champions (5th and 6th Edition) with brand new players and the excessive amount of rules, I looked back at the 3rd Edition which was the version I first started with decades ago. In addition to the nostalgia, I really enjoyed the simple game design and approach. After revising some old 5th/6th Edition characters to 3rd Edition, I found myself enjoying the Hero System again.

 

Attached is one of the characters, DC Comics' Huntress. The format is similar to how characters are depicted in the game book.

 

Let the Third Edition Renaissance continue! 😀

 

Huntress.pdf

[fdw3773]

Here's my version of Superman for Third Edition. While a 725-point character build seems extremely high, it doesn't come close to 1,000+ point builds I've seen over the years developed by other players for Superman (am thinking they were replicating the Silver Age version who was virtually god-like).

 

The simpler format and approach will make introducing Champions to new players at the next demo or convention this upcoming spring significantly easier than in years past. 😀

Superman.pdf

[fdw3773]

Here's a Third Edition writeup of a fan-favorite during a Champions event I hosted during a game convention in 2016: Ms. Victory from AC Comics' FemForce.

MsVictory.pdf

[Tywyll]

On 1/8/2019 at 4:35 PM, Chris Goodwin said:

 

 

Thank you Lucius.  I almost jumped on Doc's post.  Lucius is correct. 

 

I kind of prefer the first-gen Disadvantages rules, myself.  No effective max unless the GM says so; in the games I played in, total points were given as a range (usually 200-225 or 225-250).  Diminishing returns means you get to decide whether those last few points worth of power are worth taking a whole additional Disadvantage, for half or one-quarter points.  

 

I've never played with those rules but I wish it had remained that way instead of the way it is now. 

[Tywyll]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:16 AM, pinecone said:

Looks nice! One thing I used to "always" do back in the day is have a slot of Zero range blast for Hth, it just came up so often....

 

I don't understand this. Why wouldn't you build it as Str with Only for HTH (-1) or something? Then your own Str would add in?

[pinecone]

Mostly due to power cap concerns, I did not want to overshadow the Brick

 

Multi(60) Example powers

u E Blast 12D6

u E Blast 8D6 AP

u E Blast 10D6 REnd 0 range 

 

You can always Multi attacke with your Str to get back to 12 if needed...

[fdw3773]

Here's another fan-favorite from a previous event I hosted: AC Comics' Stardust. 😉

 

Stardust.pdf

[Pariah]

Okay, I had a sudden rush of inspiration and had to write up this character.

 

He was fresh out of the Academy and on his way to fight evil in a distant sector of the galaxy. Suddenly, his ship became embroiled in a storm of gamma radiation and cosmic particles. He and his little transport were tossed to and fro, until he located a suitable planet to land on. Alas, the crash landing damaged the ship beyond his ability to repair it. But he quickly discovered and befriended some of the strange creatures who lived on the planet. He learned of their epic struggle against the forces of Evil, and he knew what he must do. He joined the battle on the side of Good, and to this day he fights as....

 

 

Buck Parsec, Star Marshal!



 
 

 

 

[pinecone]

I always wanted to run a con game one shot with a group of aliens stranded on "island Earth" after what Should have been a "three hour tour"...;)

[Pariah]

47 minutes ago, pinecone said:

I always wanted to run a con game one shot with a group of aliens stranded on "island Earth" after what Should have been a "three hour tour"...;)

 

I would play the heck out of that!

[pinecone]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:55 AM, Tywyll said:

 

I don't understand this. Why wouldn't you build it as Str with Only for HTH (-1) or something? Then your own Str would add in?

Also "Old school" rule was No stats in a framework....so there was that...long ago....

[pinecone]

On 12/18/2019 at 1:34 PM, Pariah said:

 

I would play the heck out of that!

Which one? The Gajillionaire? His missus? the Doctor?