Third Edition Renaissance

[Pariah]

With the PDF of Champions Now now available, I've been spending most of my copious free time on that. I don't know that I'll be adding much more to this tread any time in the near future.

 

Feel free to carry on without me.

[Ninja-Bear]

Since I have time at work, I’ll try to make up some characters in 3rd edition.  So far I noticed that I have to read the rules carefully cause things have changed by what you get for for free and what you don’t. Example Extra Limb in 3rd grants a +1 OCV per limb.

[Ninja-Bear]

Oh and biggest shock right now is that Flight to be used as Super running is an example in 3rd. I was shocked when I first saw it in 4th ed write ups. I thought that it was a recent development-perhaps in fifth? Obviously I’m wrong.

[Chris Goodwin]

There might very well be a reference to that in 1e.  The reason for doing it that way back then was that the noncombat multiple for Flight was calculated differently, such that NC Flight was always ridiculously high.  

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Since I have time at work, I’ll try to make up some characters in 3rd edition.  So far I noticed that I have to read the rules carefully cause things have changed by what you get for for free and what you don’t. Example Extra Limb in 3rd grants a +1 OCV per limb.

 

 

 

 

And check out those Endurance costs!    And what it costs to get Zero END!  

 

1 hour ago, Chris Goodwin said:

There might very well be a reference to that in 1e.  The reason for doing it that way back then was that the noncombat multiple for Flight was calculated differently, such that NC Flight was always ridiculously high.  

 

 

Y

es.  That Flight-as-Super-running example goes all the way back to page 29 in 1e.

I don't know much about 3e, but I know that 1 and 2e didn't include sophisticated NCM for anything except for Flight and FTL (which we took as kind of  one-off cases, but we used it as the basis for an NCM adder, since we were looking at it right in the book.  Eventually we saw it 4e, so we figured we weren't too far astray.  )  At any rate, in both of those editions, the build is given as a method to model running extremely fast that includes speedster schticks like running up buildings, across the surface tension of water, etc.  It's not emphasized as being so much about the NCM.  

 

 I didn't own 3e until recent years (friends did, so I knew it existed), when I had a chance to pick both the 2-book boxed set (no box) and the single-book perfect-bound version.  Haven't really studied it in depth, though). 

 

 

Hope you're enjoying yourself, N-B!

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

3 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

 

Sorry.

 

Brain cramp.....

[Ninja-Bear]

So far Duke yes except Disadvantages. I hated trying to come up with 150 pts in 4th and I hate it now in 3rd though I managed to come up with it.

[Ninja-Bear]

FWIW the character I’m working on is called Elastikick. I started him out as DEX 23 but dropped it down to 18. He has martial arts - to represent his flexible body. He is a true martial artist so that’s why I lowered his DEX. He has STR 30 so one reason why I gave him martial arts so his punching is now 9D6. I don’t want to min max too much so I’ll probably keep him at this STR since I view him really strong compared to normals. (The kick though will be redefined as a “hammer” fist.

[Ninja-Bear]

And I’m proud of his secret Identity: Paul E. Moore.

[Ninja-Bear]

As a GM, I would allow to expand Susceptibility for Elastikick from Stun Damage to a a Drain on his Stretching Powers. But how would any other GM feel about it? 

[Duke Bushido]

As a 2e GM,  I'm totally cool with it. 

 

I can only speak for myself and my co-GM in my Statesboro game, though.  

[Ninja-Bear]

Ok 3rd doesn’t have Hand Attack as a Power. I think I figured out though what they were doing. They just allowed to use Energy Blast (PD) - No Range with STR Damage. 

[Amorkca]

I believe Hand Attack is +X Strength - only for damage -1/2= 3 points 

[Ninja-Bear]

9 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

As a 2e GM,  I'm totally cool with it. 

 

I can only speak for myself and my co-GM in my Statesboro game, though.  

Well I also consider Phy Lim: x2 END in Cold conditions.

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I believe Hand Attack is +X Strength - only for damage -1/2= 3 points 

I think that’s how it’s written up for Sledge. (I have him somewhere). However for now I’m going exclusive but what’s written in the 3rd ed rules. In the small weapon section for Normal damage melee weapons (blackjack) it says they are built as EB (vs PD) the UNTIL Agent in the back has a billy club and is noted that it can be added to martial punch only.  The math for it works as EB -OAF No Range (it still costs END). 

[Ninja-Bear]

I was very surprised how Super Leap works. 10 pts and you double your inherent Leaping.

[Grailknight]

 

15 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I was very surprised how Super Leap works. 10 pts and you double your inherent Leaping.

 

Third edition to Fourth Edition changes more than any other Edition upgrade. Adjustment and Mental powers were sea changes in particular along with Reduced END.

[Ninja-Bear]

4 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

 

 

Third edition to Fourth Edition changes more than any other Edition upgrade. Adjustment and Mental powers were sea changes in particular along with Reduced END.

I’ve heard that before and I can really see that now that I’m poking around in 3rd.

[Duke Bushido]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok 3rd doesn’t have Hand Attack as a Power. I think I figured out though what they were doing. They just allowed to use Energy Blast (PD) - No Range with STR Damage. 

 

 

Dead on. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I believe Hand Attack is +X Strength - only for damage -1/2= 3 points 

 

That also works, but the formalization of that particular structure, as best I can recall, didn't see print until 5e, I think? 

 

At any rate, generally it was Energy Blast (renamed Blast in newer editions; renamed Ranged Attack in my house rules) - Ranged that was used because the STR could justifiably take a much larger Limitation, at least in pre-6 editions:

 

You lost contributions to _several_ Figured Characteristics, lifting capacity, throwing range / capacity, and Leaping:  all of those were built out of STR.   It was just cleaner to toss "no range" onto an EB and call it good. 

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Grailknight said:

 

 

Third edition to Fourth Edition changes more than any other Edition upgrade. Adjustment and Mental powers were sea changes in particular along with Reduced END.

 

Yep.   Oddly, even when I play in a 4e game (I had a co-GM that preferred it, some years back), the GM still used the older Reduced Endurance rules-- he used 4e Endurance _costs_, but the older Red END rules (priced at 1/4 "per level, though) because he found he preferred the granularity of being able to chip a power down to" just the right amount of END" you saw in your head.  That, and we both believes that the newer "reduce it twice" mode for the Zero Endurance advantage was seriously under-costed with regards to utility. 

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

You lost contributions to _several_ Figured Characteristics, lifting capacity, throwing range / capacity, and Leaping:  all of those were built out of STR.   It was just cleaner to toss "no range" onto an EB and call it good. 

I got to say in some ways I like this build better  than HA. 
 

Characteristics as  Powers doesn’t seem to be a thing yet in 3rd.

[Duke Bushido]

For what it's worth, Characteristics as Powers has been around since 1e.

 

There was just a different mindset in the early days of RPGs, I think.  The rules were smaller, thinner, easier to digest.  The general trend was "it's legal because it doesn't say no and it doesn't screw up anything we've got planned for this adventure."  It was more "what can I do within the confine of these rules?" than today's tendency of "what do these rules say I can do?"  It is from out of exactly that mindset that the first Ninja HERO was born!  

 

Though for what it's worth, there are examples of Characteristics taking Focus and Only in Hero ID, which seems pretty clearly something for a power-esque build. (I am not terribly familiar with 3e, as I just cribbed what I wanted and jammed it into the ol' HR notes, but in 1 and 2e, these examples are scattered through the Advantages and Limitations sections.  I suspect that's probably where you'll find them in 3e as well.)  At a later date, (turning in early tonight I deserve it    ), I may find time to try to dredge you up something that specifically says "this is an okay thing to do," but at the moment, I can't think of anything other than the Modifers sections.

[Ninja-Bear]

Duke I’m going through the rules as I did when I was a kid. As I’ve mentioned before I’m a rules follower so if it doesn’t say it or I couldn’t figure it out by example then I figured it wasn’t legal.

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I believe Hand Attack is +X Strength - only for damage -1/2= 3 points 

I found Sledge. +2D6 HTH OIF 6 pts and then a later line where he pays 1/2 END on extra STR damage 2pts.

[Ninja-Bear]

Dwerp! After reading about buying Characteristics under Focus rules, I totally forgot that they have the Poster Child-Armadillo! Third shift brain!