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Third Edition Renaissance


Pariah

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8 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I’m also trying to figure out END Battery.

 

 

Don't.

 

Seriously.  Endurance Reserve is one of the few things I swapped in from later editions.

 

I'm turning in, but as a _quick_ summary:

 

Take your most END-heavy power and decided how many times you want to use it.

 

That's how much END is in your Battery.

 

 

The upshot of that was min-maxers and munchkins buying one super-ungodly mega-power, entitling them to _huge_ battery. They never used the other power (It was usually so Limitation heavy as to make it nigh-useless and dirt cheap), but instead fueled their other powers off of it.

 

Major points for trying something novel, but minus a few for letting that rock on for three entire editions.   :rofl:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

Depends on what you meant to type instead of "aging" , I expect.   :lol:

 

Seriously though:

 

Probably not.

 

 

Argh! Using not aging. Though I just thought up what if a Time Traveler:Dimensional beings damage from martial arts was do to Time disruption on the Target?

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"Using."  I had hoped that was what you meant, but wasn't certain enough to give an answer.

 

No.  I have no quibble with it.  However, it might not fit every GM's ideal ;)

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Argh! Using not aging. Though I just thought up what if a Time Traveler:Dimensional beings damage from martial arts was do to Time disruption on the Target?

 

 

I would absolutely hate that, right up until we got together and figured out how to model it.  :lol:

 

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Duke I was looking at END battery to pay for the Speedster Autofire-which would be a punch. However I reread the rules and I think I can get the AF down a little in ACT pts  so END would be a concern but not overwhelming. I was looking at 4D6 AF and maybe AP or Pen.

Edited by Ninja-Bear
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Zenith 

Secret ID: Johnny Swift

20 STR 33 DEX 20 CON 10 BODY 20 INT 10 EGO

10 PRE 12 COM 10 PD 10 ED 6 SPD

20 REC 44 END 30 STUN

 

Powers: Super Speed

32 Flight 20" Must Touch Surface END 4

10 Armor 6rPD/3rED must Be Moving

3 +1 W/Flight

35 4D6 EB (PD) AF, AP ACT 52 pts

17 RED END 35 END

 

CV 11

 

Disadvantages 100+

Secret ID 15                             Psy Lim: Impressed with Powers 20

Vuln x2 Gasses 20                  Psy Lim: Novice Hero                     20

Hunted By Viper 30                Psy Lim: Must Race if Challenged  5

1D6 Unluck           5                DNPC Girlfriend 11- Jenny Jones    15

Hunted by Chemical Co. 20

 

Char: 153 + Powers 97= 100 + 150 Disadvantages

 

 

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I just ran two battles with him against 4 Viper goons and it ended badly for Zenith. (I also figured out Autofire much to his dismay. 😢). Ian going to redesign him a little. I’m not trying to make these characters ultra powerful but they should be able to take on agents fairly reasonably.

 

As a side note, I realized that Viper Agents are too powerful. They can reasonably weather a 10DC attack and with the Autofire reasonably hit even a CV 11. Plus Find Weakness can be wicked too! (I think I see the beginning of the Power surge in characters). 

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31 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I just ran two battles with him against 4 Viper goons and it ended badly for Zenith. (I also figured out Autofire much to his dismay. 😢). Ian going to redesign him a little. I’m not trying to make these characters ultra powerful but they should be able to take on agents fairly reasonably.

 

As a side note, I realized that Viper Agents are too powerful. They can reasonably weather a 10DC attack and with the Autofire reasonably hit even a CV 11. Plus Find Weakness can be wicked too! (I think I see the beginning of the Power surge in characters). 

 

Not power creep, but you do see why Autofire was changed to take away the +4 OCV.

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1 minute ago, Grailknight said:

 

Not power creep, but you do see why Autofire was changed to take away the +4 OCV.

Power creep in this sense. If Viper standard agents are regular goons. (At least that’s how I see them) And I need at least 10DC to regularly KO one why should I buy a minimum of 8D6 power? 

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1 minute ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Power creep in this sense. If Viper standard agents are regular goons. (At least that’s how I see them) And I need at least 10DC to regularly KO one why should I buy a minimum of 8D6 power? 

 

Viper agents are elite goons. Standard goons would be at a lesser level. But 10d6 was standard attack for non-Barman types and was commonly for everyone. Agents were scaled for that level.

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Did you get Endurance Battery sussed out?

 

I'm finally off work (seven day week this week, it seems) and will be hanging out here for a few minutes, just in case you'd like a rephrasing or anything.  For my money, it was one of the cheesiest bits of the early editions-- scratch that!  It was one of the easiest things to make cheesy if the GM wasn't looking.  I found basing it on Endurance Reserve to be far superior.  I'd still use some of the concepts of Endurance Battery to model certain things, if the player felt they were more in line with what he was after, but by and large, Reserve was the more reliable starting point.

 

 

On June 6, 2020 at 5:44 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Duke I was looking at END battery to pay for the Speedster Autofire-which would be a punch. However I reread the rules and I think I can get the AF down a little in ACT pts  so END would be a concern but not overwhelming. I was looking at 4D6 AF and maybe AP or Pen.

 

 

It's not cheap, and it's2e ( in Champs III, specifically), for small dice attacks, consider adding "Piercing."  Like 6e's Damage Negation, this was 2e' "Defense Negation."

 

The 3e version is the Advantage Armor Piercing, and helps  a lot when you're wielding small DC attacks.

 

 

 

On June 6, 2020 at 5:47 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Scratch the Penetrating. Not in rule book that I saw.

 

Somehow, it kind of skips 3e.  It's in Champs III, skips the 3e rules set, and appears again in later editions.  Weird.

 

If you're interested, the 2e version reads thus:

 

Penetration Attack
This is a +x~ Power Advantage that allows an at- tack to automatically do some damage no matter what the defenses of the target are. The attacker rolls his dice normally and applies them against the target's defenses, but no matter how high the target's defenses are, the target will take a minimum of 1 point of effect for every 1 "BODY" rolled on the dice.

 

Example:
Penetrator has a 7D6 Penetrating Energy Blast. He attacks Tank and does 23 STUN and 6 BODY. Tank has an ED of 30 and would normally bounce all of the attack, but the Penetration on the attack causes Tank to take a minimum of 6 STUN from the attack.

 

Penetration Attack can be applied to the STUN of Normal Attacks, to the BODY of Killing Attacks, to the Power lost from Power Destruction or Power Drain, and any other effect that presents the total of the dice against a target's defenses. Penetration At- tack may not be used with Flash Attacks or any other attack that applies the "BODY" of the attack against a target's defenses. Targets with Hardened Defenses ignore the penetration effect of Penetration Attacks.
Penetration Cost: + 1/2 Advantage.

 

Comment
This power is handy for massed fire from agent blasters or other attacks. Some damage from each hit will "leak" through. The characters will never be able to ignore an agent's attack, they always have the chance to take some damage. A mass of agents with Penetrating blasters can be very dangerous to bricks and to other targets with high defenses.

 

As for the idea of Power Creep / OCV v DCV etc--

 

the early editions _all_ had a screwy view of DEX with regards to Supers.  There is an example character sheet in 2e that is used to highlight "appropriate" Characteristics (It's Crusader's sheet, if anyone was wondering).  It points out his DEX of THIRTY-THREE and simply says "A good DEX."  It called lower values on everything else all kinds of superlatives, but a 33 was mere a "good" DEX.  Yes; I am an early editions devotee, but I'm not such a fanatic as to think that made any sense at all, particularly in light of the Heroic level games demonstrating that 20 was borderline superhuman and very rare.

 

The only real options you've got are to either accept that every Tom, Dick, and Window Washer is superior in every way to an Olympic Gymnast, or manually crank that down until it makes sense.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

 

Viper agents are elite goons. Standard goons would be at a lesser level. But 10d6 was standard attack for non-Barman types and was commonly for everyone. Agents were scaled for that level.

Now that makes sense. I’ll read again and perhaps I missed the point of them being Elite goons. But that still come back to perspective too. If you still see them going down like a Stormtrooper then the mechanics should help that.

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49 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I thought missile deflection required....deflection not dodging. 😁

 

 

"Glancing blow."   :rofl:

 

39 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

I am imagining an ugly superhero/villain called Power Creep

 

 

Did it.

 

He wasn't ugly, though.  Just creepy.  And high stealth / partial invisibility.  A "Super power vampire" of sorts: take it from you and give it to himself.

 

oddly, a terrible villain, and one the PCs never really had a difficult time with.

 

Also not particularly successful game-satisfaction-wise, and he was never revisited after his capture and arrest.

 

 

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