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PamelaIsley

Valerian Scarlet: Is She a Villain or Not?

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Valerian Scarlet is a straight-up villain in the 5E Vibora Bay book.  And she's a villain you can fight in a Champions Online mission.

 

But she's also presented as something of a hero in her CO writeup (it mentions she is Caliburn's lover, which is not in the Vibora Bay material at all).

 

Is there more information about her somewhere other than Vibora Bay?  Is there a 6E version of her, for example?

 

I thought for sure she was going to be in Volume 3: Solo Villains, but she isn't.  That makes me wonder if CO was borrowing or influencing some 6E version of her that existed somewhere where she is more of a hero or a gray character.

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: I asked a similar question in 2011 it seems, before Volume 3 was out.  So I'm guessing I have all the Scarlet info that is available. Makes me wonder where CO got their info though.

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VC has not had substantial new info published about her since the Vibora Bay book. Her being in any way heroic is news to me. What's written about her that would lead you to believe that, aside from being Caliburn's lover? ('Cause that would require some reassessment of Talia al'Ghul.) ;)

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2 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

I am indeed.  Yay for M&M!

 

It's a great candy, but I didn't know it had a website.....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Feeding some to a palindromedary

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9 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

VC being in any way heroic is news to me. What's written about her that would lead you to believe that, aside from being Caliburn's lover? ('Cause that would require some reassessment of Talia al'Ghul.) ;)

 

From her load screen:

 

"Her public identity is that of a nightclub owner in Vibora Bay. But she is far more than that.  She is Robert Caliburn's rival and sometimes lover.  Like him, she has a part to play in the end of the world, and no one truly knows which side she will take."

 

She is also a mission contact in several CO missions.  You work sort of with her to take down Guy Sweetland.  She also helps in a series of missions involving Juryrig.

 

I do think she ultimately turns out to be a villain, but Vibora Bay's writeup makes it seem as though she's always a villain and not someone heroes would ever help to begin with.

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34 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

From her load screen:

 

"Her public identity is that of a nightclub owner in Vibora Bay. But she is far more than that.  She is Robert Caliburn's rival and sometimes lover.  Like him, she has a part to play in the end of the world, and no one truly knows which side she will take."

 

She is also a mission contact in several CO missions.  You work sort of with her to take down Guy Sweetland.  She also helps in a series of missions involving Juryrig.

 

I do think she ultimately turns out to be a villain, but Vibora Bay's writeup makes it seem as though she's always a villain and not someone heroes would ever help to begin with.

 

Okay, I think a little context would help here. "Rival and sometime lover," again, doesn't imply that Valerian is good; just that she's a good-looking woman, and Caliburn is, well, a guy. :rolleyes:

 

Villains and heroes working together when their common well-being is at stake is a time-honored comic-book trope, which doesn't necessarily make them any less heroic/villainous.

 

The question of which side VC will take is the same question applied to Caliburn: He is the Man at the pivot in Therakiel's apocalyptic scenario of war between Heaven and Hell, with his choice of side potentially tipping the scale. With stakes that high and temptation that great, anyone's allegiance would be tested, to either good or evil.

 

All that said, Champions Online has more than once changed the dynamic around characters as presented in the tabletop game, when it suits their purpose. For example, CO asks our PC heroes to help King Arvad of Lemuria regain his throne, a being who has spent literal eons plumbing the depths of evil; whose own Empyrean kin call him, "the Betrayer." CO also turned the Drifter, a sorcerer from pulp-era Boston, into a cowboy cyborg.

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I was hoping that CO had based this take on Valerian on some new information somewhere (and I don't know that it's necessarily that new of a take; I think they might just be taking advantage of people not knowing the setting before they start doing the missions with her).

 

As I said, I expected her to be in Volume 3 and am surprised she isn't.  I thought maybe that was because she wasn't considered a villain any more, but I'm guessing they just cut her for space or something.

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Many villains appearing in various books didn't make it into the Champs Villains trilogy. For the most part I believe it's because they're too tied to a specific location, not really operating outside of it or impacting other parts of the world, like most of the villains in Champions Worldwide; and unlike most of the baddies in the CV trilogy,  who can crop up most anywhere (particularly in America). Valerian Scarlet and her club, the Minefield, are a fixture of Vibora Bay.

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15 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

"Her public identity is that of a nightclub owner in Vibora Bay. But she is far more than that.  She is Robert Caliburn's rival and sometimes lover.  Like him, she has a part to play in the end of the world, and no one truly knows which side she will take."

That makes her at tops a Catwoman on the Hero/Villian Scale. A early one that never had joined with the Birds of Prey or similar Vigilantee Groups.

 

IIRC Caliburn was about as ambigious on the Hero/Villain scale as DC's John Constantine.

The guy was the sometimes lover of Zatana, a Cities Avatar and propably the odd demon/spirit/whatever that looked halfway attractive at the time. If you are doomed to eternal torment, no reason to not take up any option that comes your way.

 

Let us just sum it up as:
She is a Villain

He is a Hero

It is complicated.

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Don't forget, Claiborne can be found in Champions Villains Volume 3 himself (mostly because of his demon soul taking over his body from time to time).

 

And yes, he IS the closet we can get to the Hellblazer that we can get.

 

Now who is the Doom Partol analog?

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Hmm... if you mean Josiah Brimstone, I could see some Constantine in him. But I always thought he carried a heavy dose of Daimon Hellstrom, maybe even a dash of Ghost Rider.

 

I actually think Robert Caliburn was intended as the CU Constantine stand-in, although he's more of a stand-up fighter than Constantine. But his attitude and scruffiness evoke similarly.

 

Offhand I can't think of a direct analogue to the Doom Patrol, although one or two of the more sketchily-detailed hero teams described in Champions Universe might be interpreted that way. I'll have to give it more thought.

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Sorry. I mixed him up with Brimstone.

 

As for thoughts on a Doom Patrol analog, well it came to mind cause we kinda have a version of the Brotherhood Of Evil/Society Of Sin (Brain Trust), and the Brotherhood Of Dada (Professor Paragon and his Paragon Pirates).

 

We kinda lack an analog of Chemico and the Animal Vegetable Mineral Man. Well, Chemico was more of a Metal Men villain...

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:56 PM, steriaca said:

Sorry. I mixed him up with Brimstone.

 

As for thoughts on a Doom Patrol analog, well it came to mind cause we kinda have a version of the Brotherhood Of Evil/Society Of Sin (Brain Trust), and the Brotherhood Of Dada (Professor Paragon and his Paragon Pirates).

 

We kinda lack an analog of Chemico and the Animal Vegetable Mineral Man. Well, Chemico was more of a Metal Men villain...

I think that is CHEMO

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:29 AM, Christopher said:

Let us just sum it up as:

 

She is a Villain

He is a Hero

It is complicated.

 

I disagree. It sounds she started as a hero and ends up a villain. A transition occurs.

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1 hour ago, Tech said:

 

I disagree. It sounds she started as a hero and ends up a villain. A transition occurs.

 

That isn't really what happens.  CO information isn't always clear and I contributed to the confusion above.  She pretends to be a hero in early CO missions, but is a villain all along.  The only confusion is the game's bio for her plays along with her deception, whereas published Champions material had already made it clear she was a villain.  That confused me.

 

She's a very cool character in the game (look, voice, and actions).  It's a shame she wasn't updated in the 6th edition (as I keep repeating over and over, sorry).

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6 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

That isn't really what happens.  CO information isn't always clear and I contributed to the confusion above.  She pretends to be a hero in early CO missions, but is a villain all along.  The only confusion is the game's bio for her plays along with her deception, whereas published Champions material had already made it clear she was a villain.  That confused me.

 

She's a very cool character in the game (look, voice, and actions).  It's a shame she wasn't updated in the 6th edition (as I keep repeating over and over, sorry).

Unless we are dealing with Transfer or mental powers, there is not much differences between 6th edition and 5th edition. Different cost, but beyond that.

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