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PhilK

Anyone up for 20,000 Point Heroes?

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Mechanon 3000's Big Giant Head form is 4856 points. That's not including followers, vehicles and so on.

 

You could probably buy a couple of them as vehicles for about 1000 points or so. Add a base (planet) or two, a whole bucket of smaller vehicles, an army...

 

OK, lame as it might seem, you could get most of that in under 3000 points.

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20k all spent on PRE and you could make Dr. Destroyer mess his pants for a week.  That's a 4k PRE attack give or take a soliloquy.

 

Fun fact HD only goes to 9999 points... someone should point out this obvious oversight to Dan.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, archer said:

If your character is immortal and has earned 1 point per month on average for the last 2000 years, you're well over 20,000 points. (And that's not even dealing with Egyptian gods which have been around in excess of 6000 years.)

 

I'd imagine such a character got most of his earned points doled out as contacts, favors, and languages (which are now dead) though. :D

At some point it becomes just tedious to write down all of those contacts, favors and languages.

 

APG I 's Resource points (wich are a generalisation of the Equipment Pools many GM's used) has room for Contacts in the Contact/Follower pool.

Favors might fit into the Miscelanoues or Contact Pool.

Langauges either in a Language VPP, Universal Translator Talent, or the Misc Pool as well.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 9:46 PM, sentry0 said:

20k all spent on PRE and you could make Dr. Destroyer mess his pants for a week.  That's a 4k PRE attack give or take a soliloquy.

 

Fun fact HD only goes to 9999 points... someone should point out this obvious oversight to Dan.

 

 

 

9999 Base, plus 9999 Experience = 19,998 points.  For 5th Edition, 9999 Base, plus 9999 Experience, plus 9999 Complications/Disads = 29, 997 points.  I have a writeup I posted here somewhere for a 20k+ point character who was overwhelmingly powerful yet not invincible(some clear ways to defeat them).  

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Here we go:

Pretty sure this is a 5th ed writeup.  A tad under 18k points.  

One of the things I'd recommend for such mega-writeups: Give them glaring flaws or weaknesses.  Even Silver Age Superman and Dr. Manhattan and Galactus have glaring flaws, weaknesses and limitations.  Writing up a mega-character who's "beatable" is more challenging/fun than writing up one who isn't.  Plus it fits the source genre more closely.

 

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On 1/29/2019 at 3:45 PM, archer said:

If your character is immortal and has earned 1 point per month on average for the last 2000 years, you're well over 20,000 points. (And that's not even dealing with Egyptian gods which have been around in excess of 6000 years.)

 

I'd imagine such a character got most of his earned points doled out as contacts, favors, and languages (which are now dead) though. :D

 

You're not taking into account the number of points you lose to paying Taxes.

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Well, in theory, if you played Champions once a week since 1st edition came out in...1981, earning 2 xp per week, for 38 years, and kept the same character, you'd have a 4000 point PC.  Though if you gamed twice a week and averaged 5x per week, you'd hit 10,000 points.  Of course, Superman and Batman's players have been at it for 80 years, so....

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I started in early '82, but I still could justify a 4000 point character on this basis.

 

Start with 1e, with the 2e changes (loophole blocking), plus stuff from Champions II and III. Hmm. Not quite a 5e character, but very close.

 

Challenge accepted! One 4000 point 1e character coming up.

 

(It might take some time.)

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On 2/12/2019 at 7:38 AM, assault said:

Challenge accepted! One 4000 point 1e character coming up.

 

(It might take some time.)

 

Currently stuck at around 3000 points. I'm going to have to go a bit off concept.

That's not as awful as it sounds. A lot of characters have had radical changes to them, even if they were only temporary.

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I really don't remember the most amount of points I have ever spent on a character but I seriously doubt that I have ever spent more than around 2000 points on any character even when just making characters for fun.  I can't even imagine making a character with numbers high enough to need 5000 points let alone 20,000.  

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The most I have spent on a character so far is 1435 points which is how much my two-headed dragon with multiform costs right now.

 

Characters made with 20,000 points are vastly more powerful than the cosmic beings found in Champions Beyond.  The most expense costing cosmic being from Champions Beyond costs 3,376 points

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One thing to keep in mind when the point budget is unlimited: toss out "efficiency" as a design consideration.   You are basically building to concept.  You don't need a 12 SPD or 150 PRE "just because I can afford it".  You only need it if it's crucially important for the character concept.  You can spend 3000 points on perks--bases, vehicles,  followers etc---and only 500 on offensive powers if it fits the character concept.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 6:45 PM, archer said:

If your character is immortal and has earned 1 point per month on average for the last 2000 years, you're well over 20,000 points. (And that's not even dealing with Egyptian gods which have been around in excess of 6000 years.)

 

I'd imagine such a character got most of his earned points doled out as contacts, favors, and languages (which are now dead) though. :D

 

Though maybe earning 1 XP becomes harder the higher up you go.

 

And C-3PO would be in the thousands (millions) if we go language by language onto the stat-sheet. Damn, Ewok gods

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16 hours ago, Badger said:

 

Though maybe earning 1 XP becomes harder the higher up you go.

 

And C-3PO would be in the thousands (millions) if we go language by language onto the stat-sheet. Damn, Ewok gods

You could just house rule that, in a "semi-realistic" game with stat caps, that Universal Translator costs double, and is 4 points per +1 to the roll, starting from 11-.  

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Just now, Badger said:

Well, yeah, Universal Translator would be the way to go with C-3PO,  I was just being on the technical side.  (its not like we no even a fraction of all the languages he got programmed with)

There are thousands of real-world human languages, let alone a galaxy full of alien languages!  He probably had to be able to translate at that giant Republic Senate chamber thingy.  

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Similarly, I think in canon, Batman is supposed to "know" 127 different martial arts, and there are people like Gamora, the Champion and Karate Kid who are supposed to know thousands.  Pretty sure that gets simulated with a broad, long list of maneuvers, extra levels, KS: Martial Arts 18+ and some hand-waving.  

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3 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

There are thousands of real-world human languages, let alone a galaxy full of alien languages!  He probably had to be able to translate at that giant Republic Senate chamber thingy.  

 

Yeah, not disagreeing.  We just know he is programmed with millions of laguages, and mostly handwave from their on out.  (he might know Orc and Neanderthal if we wanted to put him in a cross-genre nightmare. :P)

 

 

Note:  I might have to find a way to write a LOTR/SW crossover. 

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On 2/23/2019 at 10:16 PM, megaplayboy said:

Similarly, I think in canon, Batman is supposed to "know" 127 different martial arts, and there are people like Gamora, the Champion and Karate Kid who are supposed to know thousands.  Pretty sure that gets simulated with a broad, long list of maneuvers, extra levels, KS: Martial Arts 18+ and some hand-waving.   

I would just simulate it with CSL or plain old OCV, DCV and 0 END STR.

 

For me "Marital Arts the Rules construct" is first and foremost a way to save points. Not spending so much on CV and STR (and possibly END and REC).

I find it entierly acceptable to give a Constrictor Snake a 'Martial Art' that gives bonuses to the Grab, Choke and Crush maneuvers to simulate it being good at those.

 

There is a few unique things that currently only martial arts can do. But HSMA 6E has some ideas how to turn those things into normal Optional combat maneuvers.

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On 2/23/2019 at 10:20 PM, Badger said:

Note:  I might have to find a way to write a LOTR/SW crossover. 

The one right creates a disturbance in the force and the jedi go to investigate it.

 

I mean who is to say that Middle Earth is not just a lost Human Colony?

Take a look at the game Endless Legends. It is a Fantasy planet set in the Space 4x Endless Space Series.

And there were plenty of Clone Wars Episodes that dealt with more Mystical stuff. Or giant monsters.

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On knowledge skills, going from the most general to most specific, according to The Ultimate Skill, would incur a penalty up to -60.  That suggests a peak number for KS, around maybe 100-105 or less(figure the -60, plus an "impossible" modifier of -10, then enough left to make a half roll/critical on a roll of 17 or less on 3d6).  One such skill apiece for People, Places, Things and Groups would cover everything.  Similar treatment of sciences, languages, professional skills etc, combined with purchase of all the standard stat-based skills, would probably wind up with a character who has every skill at maximum remotely feasible/practical levels for a cost of maybe 1000-1500 points.  

Honestly, the most pricey stuff for a character to buy is probably perks like followers, vehicles and bases.  For powers, obviously duplication, multiform and a number of other abilities which are very expensive(clairsentience with a bunch of extras added, e.g.).  Ultrapowerful mental powers and transforms probably yield the best return on investment, just because even strong-willed foes with mental defense only go up to a certain level, while nigh-invulnerable opponents will be more commonplace at the epic/cosmic level.

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I have a few thoughts on ultrapowerful PCs built upon skads of points:

1) Throw out the concept of cost-efficiency and/or combat efficiency.  Dr. Destroyer, in his high end writeup, spends around a third of his points on perks.  He's incredibly formidable, but he's not designed to squeeze the maximum efficiency and lethality out of the points available.  Generally veteran players design their PCs for cost/combat efficiency precisely because their budgets are limited and they're trying to stretch points to fill out their character's capabilities.  Really isn't necessary when you have a 1000+ point character. 

2) Think, as a GM and/or player, about taking a Rock-Paper-Scissors approach to PCs--powerful but limited in scope.  Not 6 guys running around with the same 100 STR, 35 DEX and 150 point VPP.  NovaBlast has awesome energy powers but falters in close-quarters combat with powerful bricks and martial artists.  PrimeMover can lift buildings but is vulnerable to magic and/or mental attacks.  And so forth.

3) Make sure every PC has a physical weakness or limitation, and some kind of major limitation out of combat as well.  Silver Age Superman could lose his powers under a red sun, was affected by a rainbow of kryptonite rocks, and had no special protection against magic, either.  Green Lantern's ring was powerless against anything yellow.  The Flash has no special senses other than the ability to see the world in slow motion, and his defenses are not ludicrously high either.  Even Dr. Manhattan has some serious limitations on his freedom of action.  Thor used to turn back to Donald Blake after being separated from his hammer for 60 seconds.  

 

If you do these three things, you will have a group of awesomely powerful superheroes who can still lose a fight, and who still need to depend upon each other.

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