Jump to content
PamelaIsley

A Modified Champions Universe

Recommended Posts

Pamelaiey as regards to Aliens, what I would do is disregard and invasions and then prune back the aliens and perhaps reboot them. I’m not that familiar with all of 6e aliens but the ones from other editions that have good backgrounds would be Thok and Herculean. Both of them crashed to earth and Thok can’t even speak English so whose to know he is an alien not a giant mutant insectoid? Obsidian’s background makes it known that he is an alien but the first of his kind visiting so yeah you  get intergalactic diplomacy but reset that as the first. Also I’d keep Oculon’s background yeah his eyes are Hzeel but a dead Hzeel so he is the only known one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

I've never really liked the Golden Age.  It's not as bad as the Silver Age, but it's just not my thing.  I think I'm a "modern age" person, which probably means Iron Age without the grim vigilantism in my case.

that is what I mean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Pamelaiey as regards to Aliens, what I would do is disregard and invasions and then prune back the aliens and perhaps reboot them. I’m not that familiar with all of 6e aliens but the ones from other editions that have good backgrounds would be Thok and Herculean. Both of them crashed to earth and Thok can’t even speak English so whose to know he is an alien not a giant mutant insectoid? Obsidian’s background makes it known that he is an alien but the first of his kind visiting so yeah you  get intergalactic diplomacy but reset that as the first. Also I’d keep Oculon’s background yeah his eyes are Hzeel but a dead Hzeel so he is the only known one.

 

I think most heroes and villains with alien backgrounds could be salvaged, just as long as there is plausible deniability that they actually are an alien.  I think I mentioned in my first post, that the public could just treat anyone who claims to be an alien with extreme skepticism and that would solve the major first contact / everyone's lives suddenly change problem that aliens usually present.

 

You're right, though.  The key is to get rid of the constant invasions and the ongoing Star Trek-esque diplomacy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pamelaisley I have messed around with writing up characters with characteristics only as they’re described. The problem is that in a game, sometimes that isn’t preferable. For example,  a Hero is only average. Does that mean he should have only 10 CON? As a NPC, that would work but not as a player. So a game is super “realistic” I look at the characteristics with a cinematic eyeball. So the same average guy might be 18 CON cause he is a player. But yeah having normals with say a 25 CON just because they are a player doesn’t make sense either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Pamelaisley I have messed around with writing up characters with characteristics only as they’re described. The problem is that in a game, sometimes that isn’t preferable. For example,  a Hero is only average. Does that mean he should have only 10 CON? As a NPC, that would work but not as a player. So a game is super “realistic” I look at the characteristics with a cinematic eyeball. So the same average guy might be 18 CON cause he is a player. But yeah having normals with say a 25 CON just because they are a player doesn’t make sense either.

 

Nothing really under 20 bothers me that much.  But there are a ton of violations of a reasonable characteristic maxima rule in the published characters (mostly villains).

 

Just quickly thumbing through News of the World (because it is sitting next to me).  Lady Blue has a 25 INT (why?), Talisman has a 21 Dex and 23 Con (better athlete than Olympians?), Warlord has a 25 Con (outside of his armor), Superstar has a 21 Dex, the Drifter has a 25 INT, Diadem has a 25 INT, Black Rose has a 25 CON, Scarlet Archer II has a 23 Dex, Nighthawk has a 25 Dex, Withcraft has a 23 Dex, Saphire is a 23 Dex and 25 Con, and so on.  The biggest offenders are just casually giving out super dexterity and super intelligence, without any real justification in the character writeups. That's the kind of "inflation" I would be careful to monitor with PCs and would tweak as I used published characters in the setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

Nothing really under 20 bothers me that much.  But there are a ton of violations of a reasonable characteristic maxima rule in the published characters (mostly villains).

 

Just quickly thumbing through News of the World (because it is sitting next to me).  Lady Blue has a 25 INT (why?), Talisman has a 21 Dex and 23 Con (better athlete than Olympians?), Warlord has a 25 Con (outside of his armor), Superstar has a 21 Dex, the Drifter has a 25 INT, Diadem has a 25 INT, Black Rose has a 25 CON, Scarlet Archer II has a 23 Dex, Nighthawk has a 25 Dex, Withcraft has a 23 Dex, Saphire is a 23 Dex and 25 Con, and so on.  The biggest offenders are just casually giving out super dexterity and super intelligence, without any real justification in the character writeups. That's the kind of "inflation" I would be careful to monitor with PCs and would tweak as I used published characters in the setting.

Part of this I would hazard a guess is because over the the years, there has become a standard range for abilities and so now heroes and villains are built for that style of games outta the gate. Of course all supplements encouraged you to adjust to your campaign. Note prior to 6th CV was tied to DEX . So if you wanted a good CV you bought higher DEX and in 3rd ed (which is the earliest I own) they recommended of having around DEX 23. And speaking of older editions,  I not surely really when Characteristics became sorted into average and excellent and legendary but I suspect that what you see in 6th is just a carryover from the earliest days. For example in Enemies I Frisbee is a villainous which by description is just a athletic Normal has a 33 DEX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not inflation in any way, shape or form. The characteristics that have been listed are entirely normal for superbeings, and have been since first edition.

 

Of course, individual GMs can have different standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, assault said:

It is not inflation in any way, shape or form. The characteristics that have been listed are entirely normal for superbeings, and have been since first edition.

 

Of course, individual GMs can have different standards.

 

It is up to every GM, of course.

 

I just don't quite visualize Sapphire and Witchcraft being better than the world's greatest athletes.  And it isn't really necessary or supported by their power sets.  But despite hyping characteristic maxima rules in many places. it's obvious the CU wasn't built with it in mind. And people can have their own preferences too.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok Pamelaisley I may not have been real clear but Character Maxima is only been around for Supers since really 5th ed. Some characters have been around since 1st. 

 

Oh, sorry. I must not have been clear.  I understood exactly what you meant.  What I was saying was that I agreed that many characteristics seem to be relics of earlier editions rather than what someone might use if they were designing a character from scratch for 5th or 6th edition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok Pamelaisley I may not have been real clear but Character Maxima is only been around for Supers since really 5th ed. Some characters have been around since 1st. 

 

Actually I have some 4th edition characters that used Characteristic Maxima.  Once one of my players couldn't figure out why the cost of their stat was more when I did it then when they did it (we were both using a software program whose name is escaping me right now) when they added the NCM the totals matched...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I justed pulled out Enemies I And life and behold Lady Blue was in that edition! Three things of note. First she has always had 25 INT. 2) In her description though it does say she’s brilliant. I mean she teaches herself martial arts, acrobatics and several sciences to develop a Force Field suit. 3) She is designed by the creator of Champions, George Macdonald.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

Oh, sorry. I must not have been clear.  I understood exactly what you meant.  What I was saying was that I agreed that many characteristics seem to be relics of earlier editions rather than what someone might use if they were designing a character from scratch for 5th or 6th edition.

No problem. I could’ve easily misunderstood you.

 

Btw I saw that some complained that since broke apart CV from Dex, then most  characters should’ve been rewritten reflect that new paradigm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the addition of Power skill rolls so you can do a onetime power stunt with something you haven’t bought is good (started in 5th). Also in someways allowing to now block certain ranged attacks for free (within GM and sfx considerations) is a nice addition too. 

 

These aid in making the game Super.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well the addition of Power skill rolls so you can do a onetime power stunt with something you haven’t bought is good (started in 5th).

 

Except that you could always do that, subject to special effects and the GM.

 

I haven't time to dredge through the texts, but the earlier editions were textually "permissive". 4e was, from memory, less so - you had to pay points for "everything". But of course that was a codification of previous practice. Different groups no doubt featured different degrees of "permissiveness".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Supreme Serpent and his Council of Thirty could simply be ruthless businessmen, making Viper a realistic multi-national criminal organization.

 

Demon is more of a con than anything else, but something made Luther Black, a power-hungry criminal, Immortal ages ago.

 

If the Hzeel ship never crashed on Earth, Warlord would be just an arms dealer and his War Machine would be various mercenaries who, might, know each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been working a little more on this.

 

A few other elements that I think I will discard from Champions Universe.

 

1. The Tiger Squad doesn't exist.  Governments might sponsor an individual hero or two, but on the whole, superhumans are not organized in a way that affects geopolitical strategy.  Governments don't use super soldiers, superhumans, or super technology in any meaningful way, and the balance of power in the world is almost identical to what it is in the real world.  There were no superhuman deployments to any major war after World War II (allowing the wars to play out largely as they did in real life).  The goal of this change is to make governments, law enforcement, and militaries function almost identically to the modern world.  I single out the Tiger Squad because it is so big and seems more like a paramilitary group than a crime fighting league.

 

2. Superhumans can't testify in court under their costumed identity.  I wonder if a lawyer could go through this and explain how this might be allowed but I simply can't accept it as plausible.  Superhumans can assist law enforcement in taking down criminals, but it's up to the regular authorities to construct actual cases against the people stopped or captured by a superhero (so more like the modern take on Batman than the Silver Age / Adam West Batman).  I did envision states like Nevada and Delaware (who are aggressive about hiding beneficial ownership information) allowing superheroes to form corporations and LLCs owned by their costumed identity.  This would allow superhumans to cash in on their likenesses without revealing their secret identities.  Superhumans could have enough of a public face to be the subject of the lurid fascination of the public, without being such an ingrained part of law enforcement and society that the legal process stops seeming plausible (or at least recognizable).  I actually envision that most supercriminals are quietly whisked away by the government to a place like Stronghold without the benefit of a public (or any) trial (which is what I think would really happen).

 

I don't mind alien ships crashing and giving super technology to someone like Warlord.  I just don't want the public to be living in fear of alien invasions every day (or aware at all that there is irrefutable evidence of the existence of aliens).

 

VIPER is a big subject.  I mentioned earlier that I'd like it to look a little more like COBRA than HYDRA.  What I meant by that was to tone down its supertechnology (and I do realize that the cartoon COBRA had things like weather dominators and MASS devices).  Their weapons and equipment resemble real world guns and vehicles (much like COBRA's planes, tanks, and guns are mostly just repainted or slightly retooled real world versions).  As for what VIPER does, how it manages to build bases everywhere, and whether it has the manpower of a first world military, those are questions I haven't really grappled with. 

 

DEMON, I think, can work just as it is.  Having unknown evils lurking in other dimensions is fine, just as long as they aren't organized like interstellar empires that invade Earth all the time (so the Kings of Edom are fine, but no Istvaha, Tyrannon, etc.). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...