PamelaIsley Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Although it's not explicitly stated anywhere, I'm guessing that the Champions were required to disclose their secret identities when they joined the team. This means that Witchcraft, Nighthawk, Kinetik, and Defender all know who each other are (everyone, of course, knows who Sapphire and Ironclad are). But I have some questions about Defender, and who else knows his identity. This is caused by the complications of being a Powered Armor hero. The Champions housekeeper, Wendy Brooks, and their liaison are both mentioned in 5E and 6E writeups as reacting to Defender's handsome appearance (Wendy has a crush on him and Denise doesn't see what the big deal is). Presumably, to find Defender handsome they must be seeing him outside his powered armor. That makes sense because it is unlikely he would walk around HQ in his armor all the time. But it also means that both of them must know his secret identity because James Harmon is a very widely known individual. But the mystery goes a little deeper (primarily because Champions can't resist remarking on how attractive people find Defender). Gravitar stops attacking Seattle in exchange for a date with Defender. Is she just assuming he's good looking under his armor? Or did she know what he looked like (meaning she, too, must know he's James Harmon). If she was just guessing he was attractive, then I'm assuming she must have found out when they went out to dinner (and dancing!?). He didn't wear his armor then, right? Gravitar probably did wear her usual mask (which in superhero terms, absolutely hides her identity, something I have no issue with as it is a trope I like). Maybe Defender wears an improvised superhero mask when he's outside his armor around support staff and others that he meets with? That makes some sense. I can't imagine he shows up at meetings with the mayor or government officials in his armor (or maybe he does; it isn't as bulky looking as Warlord's or Devastator's after all). If he does do this, though, it's never really mentioned or even alluded to anywhere. What do people think? bubba smith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 I don't have a problem with people on the team knowing one another's secret identities, but I don't think it's necessary. There are teams in comics where the people don't know each other. The housekeeper and the liaison could fall into that category as well, people who could reasonably know who he really was. In 6th edition, Defender has part of his face showing through the mask. Maybe he's got a real good jawline, and a sexy voice or something. As far as the date with Gravitar, I'd presume that it's a superhero date, not a conventional one. He'd wear his armor, she'd wear her costume, and they'd go flying around the city. They'd get take out, have a drink on top of a skyscraper overlooking the city, and engage in flirtatious banter back and forth. In the end maybe he takes off the helmet to give her a good night kiss, and he's got another mask on underneath. Lord Liaden and Duke Bushido 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Well, Cybermind found out (is it Cybermind or some other tech villain?) when he took over his armor with his mental powers. The only thing he got out of was a trip to comaland. Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 In the latest published version of Defender's PnP background, James Harmon IV has kept his identity secret even from his own family. This has caused friction with his father in particular, who wants his son to devote more time and energy to their company (not knowing what else he uses his time for). Personally I would consider that complication neither necessary nor desirable, but it is a classic comic-book trope. Perhaps in the years since that was written James IV finally confided in his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: In the latest published version of Defender's PnP background, James Harmon IV has kept his identity secret even from his own family. This has caused friction with his father in particular, who wants his son to devote more time and energy to their company (not knowing what else he uses his time for). Personally I would consider that complication neither necessary nor desirable, but it is a classic comic-book trope. Perhaps in the years since that was written James IV finally confided in his family. I completely agree with you. It has always seemed to me that keeping things secret from people that close to him is likely to cause him more angst than it's worth. It's also weird that Defender keeps it from his family, but shares it with his housekeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said: I completely agree with you. It has always seemed to me that keeping things secret from people that close to him is likely to cause him more angst than it's worth. It's also weird that Defender keeps it from his family, but shares it with his housekeeper. There is always "the Batman solution". Dead parents can never tell a secret identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, PamelaIsley said: I completely agree with you. It has always seemed to me that keeping things secret from people that close to him is likely to cause him more angst than it's worth. It's also weird that Defender keeps it from his family, but shares it with his housekeeper. Talk to ‘60’s Batman. Alfred knew, but Aunt Harriet never did. Although, she also never noticed Bruce taking her nephew Dick on all those overnight “camping” trips and the boy coming back covered in bruises. Lawnmower Boy, drunkonduty and Matt the Bruins 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tjack said: Talk to ‘60’s Batman. Alfred knew, but Aunt Harriet never did. Although, she also never noticed Bruce taking her nephew Dick on all those overnight “camping” trips and the boy coming back covered in bruises. Which led to a few letters from his Teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Rand Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 In the 4E book, Defender's writeup lists Wendy as the family's housekeeper. Interestingly enough, the writeup for Wendy in Normals Unbound is completely different, as is the one in Everyman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mark Rand said: In the 4E book, Defender's writeup lists Wendy as the family's housekeeper. Interestingly enough, the writeup for Wendy in Normals Unbound is completely different, as is the one in Everyman. She's the Champions housekeeper in MC in the 5E and 6E versions, I think. She and the liaison pose the most interesting questions about who knows who Defender is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, PamelaIsley said: The Champions housekeeper, Wendy Brooks, and their liaison are both mentioned in 5E and 6E writeups as reacting to Defender's handsome appearance (Wendy has a crush on him and Denise doesn't see what the big deal is). Presumably, to find Defender handsome they must be seeing him outside his powered armor. That makes sense because it is unlikely he would walk around HQ in his armor all the time. But it also means that both of them must know his secret identity because James Harmon is a very widely known individual. Defenders "Helmet" is more on the line of a "Green Lantern Mask" then a Iron Man armor. And the rest of his armor is form fitting as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Christopher said: Defenders "Helmet" is more on the line of a "Green Lantern Mask" then a Iron Man armor. And the rest of his armor is form fitting as well. Most of the stuff about Wendy, Denise, and Gravitar was written when Defender's look was much more like Iron Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 5 hours ago, steriaca said: There is always "the Batman solution". Dead parents can never tell a secret identity. Yes, but killing your own parents to avoid that is a bit harsh. Ninja-Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 I think it's valid that he might be walking around bare-faced and they don't actually know he is, beyond "the guy inside the Defender armor." A parade of famous people could walk right past me and I never know. I am reminded of a cartoon I watched with the kids many years ago: the Justice League (not necessarily the name of the cartoon, but it had that character roster) was being infiltrated by Lex Luthor, who was using some kind of "put my mind into other people" device. His goal was to get into (I think it was) Superman's head and control him to do something horrible. Somehow... He missed. He ended up inside the Flash. At one point, he steers the Flash toward the restroom and announces "well at least I can learn the true identity of the Flash!" (or words to that effect). He stands in front of a mirror and rolls back his hood, leans close in the mirror and studies himself for _easily_ twenty seconds of precious screen time. "I...... have no idea who this is." I nearly choked laughing. Yeah, sure: the Flash's alter ego isn't famous (please correct me if I'm wrong), but the odds are that Luthor could walk right past him and not recognize him again later. Even the really attractive celebrities all tend to look like each other and a million other people that outside of something to "clue you in" to their identity: famous role or costume, hanging with a group of people both unique and known to keep his company, etc.... Clark Kent looks kinda like Superman, but it's clearly not something you pick up on right away. Duke Brian Stanfield, massey and DShomshak 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjack Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 It was Justice League Unlimited, and you’re right, that line had me laughing myself silly. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Tjack said: It was Justice League Unlimited, and you’re right, that line had me laughing myself silly. Oh, it was _awesome_ how unexpected and hilarious that was, wasn't it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 Meh I mean its the comic books, secret identities are one of those conceits that don't hold up to very close scrutiny anyway. Even in the original stories the concept came from (Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro, etc) the secret identity is blown by the end of the book. But they make the genre work and are fun. People who insist they're stupid and should be ignored are missing all the great stories, fun dramatic incidents etc that can result -- not to mention the dangers and troubles if they are ignored. I should add though, that being rich doesn't necessarily make you famous and that even if you are, you may not be known by your appearance. Could you pick Bill Gates out of a police lineup of guys his age? Do you know what Jeff Bezos even looks like? The richest men in the world are Bezos, Gates, Carlos Slim, Warren Buffett and Charles Koch. Do you even know what they look like? If you met them out of context -- that is, in a grocery store or something rather than a press conference or interview -- would you even notice them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted February 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 I like the idea of secret identities. I'm not criticizing them. I'm more trying to puzzle out what is going on with Defender, who wears a suit of powered armor but is frequently described as an object of attraction for the women around him (including villainesses). I do think if I worked with Bill Gates frequently (like Wendy and Denise do with Defender) that I might figure out pretty fast who he is, even if I didn't recognize him the first time I saw him outside a suit of armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 I'm reasonably certain nothing in the background info insists that they don't know he's Defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Well, there is this from p. 189 of the Sixth Edition Champions genre book: "Despite his accomplishments, James continues to feel the burden of living up to his famous ancestors. It doesn’t help that his need to maintain a secret identity (to protect his family) prevents him from claiming credit for what he’s done. As a result, his father and mother think of him as a playboy and disappointment, even though he’s already put all of his ancestors to shame." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just a thought too. Doesn’t mysterious equal handsome? Maybe not in a direct way looking way but in a general way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted February 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: Well, there is this from p. 189 of the Sixth Edition Champions genre book: "Despite his accomplishments, James continues to feel the burden of living up to his famous ancestors. It doesn’t help that his need to maintain a secret identity (to protect his family) prevents him from claiming credit for what he’s done. As a result, his father and mother think of him as a playboy and disappointment, even though he’s already put all of his ancestors to shame." Exactly! This is the quote that triggered the thought line. He goes out of his way to protect his identity on the one hand, but seems to cavalierly disclose it on the other (Wendy, Denise, Gravitar, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Just a thought too. Doesn’t mysterious equal handsome? Maybe not in a direct way looking way but in a general way? It's the challenge. Chicks dig the challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Well, great voice, great attitude, clearly in good shape, obviously powerful and wealthy all add up to attraction for many women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 16 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Just a thought too. Doesn’t mysterious equal handsome? Maybe not in a direct way looking way but in a general way? You mean like Zorro? Yeah probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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