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Bazza

Game of Thrones Discussion Thread

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In 1996 I went looking for a good one-off fantasy novel at Borders.  I specifically wanted to avoid any books that were part of a series, because I didn't want to make that kind of time commitment.  I found a standalone book called "A Game of Thrones", which had no sequels or anything on the shelf next to it, and after reading the first ten pages or so it was clearly a good book, so I bought it. 

 

It took me twenty three years to find out how the damned story ends.

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It occurred to me this afternoon that Game of Thrones is a mythologised fairy tale in the tradition of Tolkien. Which is no surprise really, as GRRM is a big fan and has written it in some aspect as a dialogue between him and Lord of the Rings. 

 

Edit: This explains why Game of Thones has resonated to millions far and wide over the past 9 years. It is an adult fairy tale. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:43 PM, Bazza said:

 

Neither. GRRM has too much on his plate to be active with GoT like he was in earlier seasons. That's it -- no big conspiracy. 

 

Also, X-Men Last Stand was an enjoyable film. I've enjoyed that far more than more highly rated ones. 

Squabbles behind the scenes of a huge creative production is par for the course, not a "huge conspiracy" as you imply that I suggest.

 

X-Men the last stand was one of the most vile series of moving pictures I have ever seen. 

Its downright evil desire to reach what the director saw as an ideal narrative outcome was so foul! So absolutely disgraceful, so utterly contemptible that it sits easy as the worst movie I ever watched in the cinema. 

The director wanted this "epic", "tragic" and "romantic" scene where Wolverine killing Jean Grey and set up the whole movie to support this end. Off course such an vulgar and immoral story turn can never be properly implemented into the X-men story line. It just goes against the grain of the whole deal. 

Almost every character is character assassinated, Wolverine kills Jean without trying to finding another solution. Storm of all people are relegated to "wise black person who tells it like it is" role and are used to give blanket approval to the literal gutting of Jean Grey. In fact she demands it!

Professor X are turned into a misogynistic scumbag which upon seeing that Jean Grey as a little girl have the power of levitation and is very powerful, Decides to kill her mind and replace the real Jean Grey with a psychic automaton put inside her head! I repeat: For all intents and purposes he KILLS Jean Grey and creates a flesh puppet in her stead.

Jean Grey is also character assassinated as her sweetness, kindness and empathy for others are shown to be just a constructed personality created by Professor X and the real Jean Grey is an evil murderer. Why is never explained. And her character assassination is lessened somewhat by the sheer ineptness of this most loathsome script. As we never see the real Jean do anything evil as a child nor has she done anything evil. She lifts some cars and are a bit smug about her power, but she have not actually done anything. So no wonder she is pissed off once her brain patterns regrow and she becomes herself again. Again she is still shown as evil but its not as bad as it is with the professor. 

 

In conclusion the director had a hard on for seeing a beautiful woman gutted on screen and tried to make it look as good as possible and tried to bend and twist the story around so it was not actually an evil act.

Jean were never the "real" Jean. Wolverine felt really bad about it, Storm were okay with it, they had a come out of the closet because you are actually an beautiful angel subplot while ignoring that ugly mutants also exists and finally they made Rouge give up on her powers and opportunity to help people so that she could enjoy the pleasures of the flesh. 

And pleasures of the flesh is a bit of a theme here because the director have  no empathy or understanding of the fact that women and other people actually have a self or a soul if you want to call it that. To him Jean was just the pleasure she had given others with her company. The fact that it was a psychic construct made by Professor X made no difference because no soul or individual have any value except what the director finds pleasure in. So if its a real person or a stepford wife is same deal for him. He does not see the difference. And that is one of the cornerstones of being evil. You dont see other people as valuable individuals. Just as flesh puppets.

13 minutes ago, Bazza said:

 

Edit: This explains why Game of Thones has resonated to millions far and wide over the past 9 years. It is an adult fairy tale. 

I see it more as a cynical use of fantasy tropes to trick people into watching a post modernist deconstruction of the genre. 

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I really liked the series, but this last season felt like a microwaved desser, after a fine, chef prepared, seven course meal. Too rushed and flat. The structure of a good ending was there but the ornamentation and build up was missing. 

 

This is shot gave me chills, even if the symbolism was obvious and heavy handed. 

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4 hours ago, Trencher said:

I see it more as a cynical use of fantasy tropes to trick people into watching a post modernist deconstruction of the genre. 

 

In what way is Game of Thrones post-modernist? 

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5 hours ago, Trencher said:

Squabbles behind the scenes of a huge creative production is par for the course, not a "huge conspiracy" as you imply that I suggest.

 

"How has your involvement in the show changed over time?

I’m a co-executive producer on the show; David and Dan are the showrunners. Right from the first, we knew that they were going to do the lion’s share of the work, but I did wanted to be involved. Initially, I was involved in all the casting — I wasn’t physically present — I was here in Santa Fe. But through the wonders of the internet, I was able to look at all of the actors reading and to write them long letters and to have phone calls where I discussed which actors I like and which actors I didn’t like. And in the early seasons, I wrote one script per season. I would have gladly done more, but there just wasn’t time. I’m still trying to do these books. It takes me about a month to write a script and I didn’t have a month to spare, so I said, I think I’ll sit out season 5. I’ve sat out seasons 6 and 7 too, just trying to concentrate on this book, which as you know is massively late. So in that sense, my involvement in the show has diminished over time, though, I’m still here whenever they want to talk to me, and I’m always glad to weigh in. David and Dan have come to Santa Fe and we’ve discussed many of the ultimate developments, those landmarks that I spoke to at the end of the road that we’re both driving for. So I don’t need to be quite as involved as I was at the beginning."

 

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/

 

Ergo, GRRM, was not squeezed out or left the show. As I said: "GRRM has too much on his plate to be active with GoT like he was in earlier seasons." 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bazza said:

 

 

In what way is Game of Thrones post-modernist? 

Well classical fantasy is all about the heroes versus a force and modernist is the heroes versus society.  

While postmodernism is more subversive deconstruction of modernism stories and tropes. 

After Game of Thrones show decided to focus on the war for the throne after the undead threat was over I think of it as a modernist narrative but since they had the last episode it became more of a post modernist piece. 

If it had used the battle for the throne as a distraction from the war against the white walkers but still had a deconstructionist narrative like with the last episode I guess I could call it anti classic?  Or atleast a modernist twist on a classical tale. 

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7 minutes ago, Bazza said:

Ergo, GRRM, was not squeezed out or left the show. As I said: "GRRM has too much on his plate to be active with GoT like he was in earlier seasons." 

 

I take that with a pinch of salt. Its pretty obvious that GRRM are passively working against the show at this point. He write other books than the ones that would help the show. He does extremely minimal promotion for the show on his own twitter and keep in mind this is the greatest most expensive TV show of all time. You just dont take time off that to promote your wild card series unless something have gone seriously wrong behind the scenes. 

 

That said I think we can leave this particular train of discussion dead since we will get to know the truth sooner or later as contracts run out and silence agreements are voided. Unless both GRRM dies and there is a total Disneyiesce media black out lol. 

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Campaign finishes 3 year run without DM


 

Quote

 

The campaign was originally organized in 2011 by Dungeons & Dragons veteran George RR Martin, before Martin ultimately abandoned it in 2015. Subsequent sessions without Martin have been mostly player-directed for the past 3 years.

 

 

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A good ending. Very satisfying. Yes, the last two seasons had all manner of pacing issues and a few characters being out of character. Although Tyrion is the only central character to be guilty of this. But overall things went the way they were pointed toward since day one. And I was pretty happy to be surprised by a couple of the final outcomes.

 

It also marks the end of an era. The show has been going for 9 years. That's a long time and a lot of investment.

 

Add to that the end of the first great arc of the MCU (11 years?) only a few weeks ago  and I am feeling full of conflicting emotions. Something like the little death. Fulfilled. Satisfied. But also lost. Ce la vie.

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I don't understand how an invading foreigner has any say in Westrosean justice. Also, Dany was never actually queen of the seven kingdoms. She deluded herself that it was her birthright and believed this delusion. 

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Let's face it if there's one thing the show has emphasised it's realpolitick. Dany and Greyworm had bucket loads of "realpolitick."

 

Dany was a pretender to the throne, one with a decent legal claim too. That, an army, and a dragon was enough.

 

Greyworm has a say in Westerosi justice because he has an army of several thousand Unsullied. That Jon was still alive some weeks after killing Dany goes to show that, despite his personal animosity towards Jon, Greyworm had enough sense not to just kill him and kick off another war. Makes him smarter than most (all?) of the Kings and Queens of Westeros we've seen in the show.

 

 

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