Captain Marvel with spoilers

[Greywind]

As Wonder Man realized: "She doesn't stand back and point like Wanda or Jan. She hauls off and hits a guy like a man would."

[slikmar]

I liked the blowing up the missiles thing. Felt like an homage to Missile command where you blow up the other missiles with the first one.

[massey]

4 minutes ago, slikmar said:

I liked the blowing up the missiles thing. Felt like an homage to Missile command where you blow up the other missiles with the first one.

 

Yeah in the theater I was like "Missile Command!"

[Dr.Device]

22 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Yes, and...?

 

And now I know exactly how seriously to take any resulting criticisms.

[Christopher]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:15 AM, Scott Ruggels said:

  Some traits we admire in men are unattractive in women.

I dislike them in both Genders.
I just can not comprehend someone trying to offset their lack of ability with abundance of activity or unwaranted certainty.

[zslane]

22 hours ago, Bazza said:

As Carol had to break so many glass ceilings to be the pilot she knew she is; she has to be supremely confident in her own abilities and talent. It is no different to anyone else who makes it at an elite level.

 

Perhaps. But while that may explain her attitude, it doesn't make it any more likable, at least not to me.

[slikmar]

One other thing mentioned was that she didn't have a hatred of the Skrulls. Actually, my impression of her and her teams reaction was "Another Bug Hunt", IE Aliens. It may have to do a lot with the fact her team seemed to be one that was A: Covert Ops type and B: seemed to have a leader (Yon-Rogg) and others (Minn-Erva and Korath) who were more in the know about the truth behind the Skrull threat (that the Kree had basically won and were using it as a scare tactic).

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Perhaps. But while that may explain her attitude, it doesn't make it any more likable, at least not to me.

 

*full disclosure: I haven't seen the film yet

 

That aside, some things I've read and quotes from the film make it at least possible that her dour and unemotional approach is on purpose, that its part of her conditioning that she may fight and break free from in another film (Ms Larson has 6 more films on contract, after all).  Its probably not the most winning and appealing approach to take, but it might make for an interesting character arc over time, if that is what is happening.

[Toxxus]

Brie felt robotically stiff in most of her acting scenes.  There's a bit early on where she's told to control her emotions and my first thought was, "What emotions?".

 

They could have used a billboard of her with some lip animating software for some of the scenes.  Just. Awful.

 

That and a couple of lame man-bashing bits that seemed like they were thrown for a certain, tiny segment of the audience did nothing to enhance it.

 

The way Fury lost his eye was beyond stupid.

 

All that being said I thought it was moderately entertaining.  Good, but not Marvel Movie good.  My wife and daughter liked it more than I did.

 

Though, at this point, even my daughter is picking up on the Mary Sue schtick in movies.  "She's going to win because she's a girl.  Girls are good and boys are bad.  Girls beat boys at everything! <poke, poke, poke>".

[Pariah]

Have you seen the awesome 90s-style website for the movie?

[Bazza]

Yes we have. Don't make me go find the post. 

[Christopher]

5 hours ago, Toxxus said:

Brie felt robotically stiff in most of her acting scenes.  There's a bit early on where she's told to control her emotions and my first thought was, "What emotions?". 

  

They could have used a billboard of her with some lip animating software for some of the scenes.  Just. Awful. 

The 90's were not a time where a women could be successfull and show her emotions. And then she had the whole Kree Education.

I mean, I do not expect someone from Vulcan to be good at emoting either.

 

5 hours ago, Toxxus said:

That and a couple of lame man-bashing bits that seemed like they were thrown for a certain, tiny segment of the audience did nothing to enhance it.

Wich ones were those? All I could see was the usual "arogant flyboy" from Topgun wich had "90's Sexism" added to his reportoi.

90's Movie + Flyboy + Female Protagonist. Entirely expeected.

 

5 hours ago, Toxxus said:

The way Fury lost his eye was beyond stupid.

Clawed out by a alien, shapshifting horror that shortly before ate entire Kree patrols? Does not seem very stupid to me.

[Toxxus]

14 hours ago, Christopher said:

The 90's were not a time where a women could be successfull and show her emotions. And then she had the whole Kree Education.

I mean, I do not expect someone from Vulcan to be good at emoting either.

 

Strange, her equally successful pilot buddy was acting circles around her with her ability to convey a range of powerful emotions.

 

14 hours ago, Christopher said:

Wich ones were those? All I could see was the usual "arogant flyboy" from Topgun wich had "90's Sexism" added to his reportoi.

90's Movie + Flyboy + Female Protagonist. Entirely expeected.

 

She shoots the man's face on the True Lies poster and leaves Jamie Curtis unscathed. 

The Kree scanning device intones, "Human Male.  Threat level low to none.".

A guy is rude to her so she steals his motorcycle.

 

There were others, but I've already forgotten them.

14 hours ago, Christopher said:

Clawed out by a alien, shapshifting horror that shortly before ate entire Kree patrols? Does not seem very stupid to me.

 

It was beyond stupid.  He's been nothing but lovey dovey to the Flerkin up to this point and the space-cat clearly enjoys his attention; fights on his behalf; recognizes friends from foes; and then out of nowhere blinds him.  Later, they're inexplicably on good terms again.

Sorry, but after something takes your eye you don't continue to let it roam your office in case it wants to be petted and/or take your last eyeball.

 

Dumb as !@#$.  Easily the worst part of the movie.

[Starlord]

24 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

 

She shoots the man's face on the True Lies poster and leaves Jamie Curtis unscathed. 

The Kree scanning device intones, "Human Male.  Threat level low to none.".

A guy is rude to her so she steals his motorcycle.

 

There were others, but I've already forgotten them.

 

 

Getting 'subversive man-bashing' from those scenes requires an ability to reach that Mr. Fantastic would be proud of IMO.

 

Well, maybe unless that's what you were looking for all along, I suppose.

[Toxxus]

11 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Getting 'subversive man-bashing' from those scenes requires an ability to reach that Mr. Fantastic would be proud of IMO.

 

Well, maybe unless that's what you were looking for all along, I suppose.

 

I would categorize it as pandering to the audience as the movie was hyped in some venues as a big girl-power, feminist installment.

 

I'll admit I was watching for it some based on Brie's pre-release statements along the lines of, "I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time,” Larson said. “It wasn’t made for him!"

So knowing in advance that she has racist, sexist, gerontophobic world views had me a bit apprehensive going in.

 

That being said, apparently the Wrinkle in Time book was OK for 40-year-old white dudes because I liked it just fine.

[RDU Neil]

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

The Kree scanning device intones, "Human Male.  Threat level low to none.".

 

I didn't find this man-bashing... just a tired, cliched, "saw it coming a mile away" joke just like most of them. That was my main problem with the movie is that it wasn't remotely funny or clever at all. everything was so predictable, even the jokes were canned and stiff. It felt like a bad episode of a 90s TV show that went on too long. It was severely dumbed down, which I find shocking. Even if I found Infinity War to be bad, they were at least trying to up-end audience expectations and do something different with their story telling. The writing on Captain Marvel felt like what I expected Iron Man to be, eleven years ago... safe, cliched, predictable and bland. For all the faults, no Marvel movie has been this until now, which is why I was so appalled.

[Christopher]

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

She shoots the man's face on the True Lies poster and leaves Jamie Curtis unscathed.  

It was a shock reacation with poor to no aiming.

 

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

The Kree scanning device intones, "Human Male.  Threat level low to none.". 

It classified Nick Fury as "Human", "Male" and "Threat level low to none."

I am pretty sure Nick Fury is a Human.

I am also pretty sure Nick Fury is a Man.

 

I am also pretty sure that - compared to stuff like Asgardians, Flerkins, Groots and whatever species Drax was - Humanity does not have exceptional natural combat ability.

I am also pretty sure that 90's Humanity Technology was not impressive for a Empire that could do a space/ground genocide without most humans even hearing of it. Much less do anything about it.

So this was a underestimation of Humanity. And Nick Fury. But only a slight understimation, given when this played.

 

For me the Gender was the least important part of the Scene.

 

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

A guy is rude to her so she steals his motorcycle.

Wich other 90's character did that?

Oh right, Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Terminator. Every single time. The first time he even killed some guy by ramming his Fist into it's chest.

The 2nd time he burned the guy on a cooking plate.

 

 

Hrrm:

In True Lies Schwarzenegger was the lead. And the Terminator also scanned and classified Humans like the scanner did.

Maybe it was just a real lot of Terminator/Schwarzenegger References?

 

1 hour ago, Toxxus said:

It was beyond stupid.  He's been nothing but lovey dovey to the Flerkin up to this point and the space-cat clearly enjoys his attention; fights on his behalf; recognizes friends from foes; and then out of nowhere blinds him. 

In other words, totally normal Cat beahvior.

I had a cat allow me to pet his kits. And 5-10 minutes later, it gave me a scratch over the entire left upper arm for sitting in it's chair.

 

I was in the Cinema with 3 cat owners. None of them were surprised. I mean I had enough 2nd and 1st Hand information about cats to not be surprised.

[zslane]

51 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Getting 'subversive man-bashing' from those scenes requires an ability to reach that Mr. Fantastic would be proud of IMO.

 

Well, it's a bit more subtle than that. There is a lot of momentum behind lifting up female characters at the expense of the male characters in entertainment right now. We are watching the pendulum of sexism swing past the Equality mid-point and over to the Grrl Power At All Costs end of the arc. It isn't usually very blatant, because the pendulum isn't that far at the extreme end (yet), but it is hard not to detect a certain Making Up For Lost Respect that is woven into the fabric of a lot of movies and tv shows today that appear to be going above and beyond to squeeze as much diversity and female empowerment into the frame as possible. And sometimes the writers seem to feel a need to marginalize men/masculinity along the way, even if only in subtle (but noticeable) ways.

 

[Starlord]

Your subtlety meter must be stronger than mine.

[massey]

2 hours ago, Toxxus said:

 

I would categorize it as pandering to the audience as the movie was hyped in some venues as a big girl-power, feminist installment.

 

I'll admit I was watching for it some based on Brie's pre-release statements along the lines of, "I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time,” Larson said. “It wasn’t made for him!"

So knowing in advance that she has racist, sexist, gerontophobic world views had me a bit apprehensive going in.

 

That being said, apparently the Wrinkle in Time book was OK for 40-year-old white dudes because I liked it just fine.

 

I don't like the idea that criticizing 40 year olds is gerontophobic.  I strongly reject this idea.  Please, please God let it not be true.  You know some people say that 40 is the new 20.

[Toxxus]

6 minutes ago, massey said:

 

I don't like the idea that criticizing 40 year olds is gerontophobic.  I strongly reject this idea.  Please, please God let it not be true.  You know some people say that 40 is the new 20.

 

You are seven years older than Jesus.  Deal with it! 

[massey]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

 

Well, it's a bit more subtle than that. There is a lot of momentum behind lifting up female characters at the expense of the male characters in entertainment right now. We are watching the pendulum of sexism swing past the Equality mid-point and over to the Grrl Power At All Costs end of the arc. It isn't usually very blatant, because the pendulum isn't that far at the extreme end (yet), but it is hard not to detect a certain Making Up For Lost Respect that is woven into the fabric of a lot of movies and tv shows today that appear to be going above and beyond to squeeze as much diversity and female empowerment into the frame as possible. And sometimes the writers seem to feel a need to marginalize men/masculinity along the way, even if only in subtle (but noticeable) ways.

 

 

I agree that this is something that happens, but I didn't detect too much of it in Captain Marvel.  And I was reluctant to see this movie, because of the lead actress' comments.  Her quote was pretty much targeted right at me, saying "hey massey, don't see this film, it's not for you".  My response on things like that is generally "okay, I won't".  But I wanted to be prepared for Endgame.

 

--Carol Danvers was one of my least favorite characters in the comics.  I had no interest in seeing a movie about her.

--I'd never heard of Brie Larson before, so she had no star power appeal for me.  Her comments made me want to see it even less.

--The previews that I saw didn't strike me as interesting either.  Just looked like a generic comic book movie.

--I didn't talk to anybody who had seen it who just loved it.

--I was worried that we'd get a lot of man-hating girl power stuff.

--I was afraid they'd take this character I didn't really like and have her ruin Endgame.

 

For those reasons, my interest level was at an all-time low.  But... Endgame.  So I went to see it anyway.  And fortunately, I think most of my worries were unfounded.  The movie was not too bad, on par with some of the mid-tier Marvel films.  It was roughly the level of a Thor.  It was a Marvel origin film that had too much CGI in the ending.  I saw the twist coming from a million miles away.  Some of the comedy seemed kind of forced.  I'll agree with people who say it felt a lot like a 90s action movie.  I thought there were flashes of Independence Day and Men in Black.  Now, I like 90s action movies, so that's not really a bad thing, but it did feel kinda dated.

 

Overall, I liked it okay.  I didn't feel offended by anything, I wasn't upset by it.  It was just something to watch for two hours, and I hope her role in Endgame is pretty limited.

[Pattern Ghost]

I'm thinking "90's action movie" is what they were going for. They've made a big deal of each MCU movie having a different genre of its own, and given the marketing it seems to fit. Still haven't seen it. I was sick last week, wife has the same thing this week. Probably next week.

[Old Man]

Strangely, I can’t think of a way to distinguish ‘90s action movies the way I can with ones from the eighties. Shaky cam and grainy?

[zslane]

3 hours ago, massey said:

Her quote was pretty much targeted right at me, saying "hey massey, don't see this film, it's not for you".

 

I'm curious which of Larson's statements conveyed that message to you.