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PamelaIsley

Supervillain Holocaust 6E Error and Question

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24 minutes ago, archer said:

 

I find that I'm not particularly fond of a lot of superbeing names.

 

But since other people are making those names choices, I just chalk it up to everyone in the world except me being weird.

 

Do you prefer something like NBC's Heroes or sort the MCU where they basically have done away with either code names or secret identities?  Or do you just not like the names that people pick?

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1 hour ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

Do you prefer something like NBC's Heroes or sort the MCU where they basically have done away with either code names or secret identities?  Or do you just not like the names that people pick?

I think he gravitates twords Wild Cards myself. I.E. people with powers.

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1 hour ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

Do you prefer something like NBC's Heroes or sort the MCU where they basically have done away with either code names or secret identities?  Or do you just not like the names that people pick?

 

I really, really like code names and secret identities. But you get a lot of names in comics like The Thing, Mr. Fantastic, Triplicate Girl, etc. which seem pretty lame when I step back and think about it.

 

Even "Dr. Doom" would seem pretty lame for the leader of a small Balkan kingdom if it were the name of a new character rather than being a name I've had so many decades to get used to.

 

Players can be hit-and-miss on names for their PC's as well. A lot of times it seems like they come up with a cool name which they want to use, regardless of the character's background or powers. Then they separately come up with a background and powers which they're desperate to build but which has no connection to that name. But they squash the name onto the character anyway because they want to use both that name and that power set right now, even if it doesn't make any sense.

 

I think the Wild Cards universe works without the code name/secret identity paradigm because most of the characters with superpowers are neither superheroes nor supervillains. People might have a code name in that universe but it usually is used as a form of self-promotion (Peregrine) or description (Snotman, Radical, etc.) rather than an attempt to maintain a secret ID.

 

I also am a big fan of costumes for superheroes and supervillains rather than them running around in civilian clothes but that's a different subject.

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7 hours ago, PamelaIsley said:

 

The strange thing is that his bio states that he has a sense of noblesse oblige and his ultimate goal is to convince the people of the world to join him.  That, um, clashes quite strongly with the name he deliberately chose (and I know the bio says he chose it to strike fear in people; the fact is that it isn't going to strike fear so much as just be radically offensive or at least stoke the anger of a large segment of the population he wants to control).

 

I usually don't care about things like this.  And I certainly am not suggesting anyone else should.  It's just whenever I sit down to write out a possible campaign thread (and I do this a lot), I always rule him out (even though he is a much more flexible master villain than most others) because of this issue.  I think I'm going to use Gravitar in an Alliance-type situation even though it doesn't make quite as much sense.

 

He could simply be an idiot. Right there in the description we have two contrary statements about his personality - One he has a sense of noblesse oblige and wants people to join him (all happiness and hugs); Two - he wants to strike fear into people (not so many hugs). He certainly wouldn't be the first person in history to hold and believe in two contrary ideas.

 

To the folks who are trying to brush away the unfortunate implications of a character called holocaust by pointing out it's an ancient word with other meanings. Yes, yes. Well done.

 

But do you really think that an obscure ancient Greek word carries more cultural baggage in the modern, English speaking, western world than the fucking Holocaust? (And yes moderators,  I do think the fucking Holocaust deserves use of that adjective.) It's a bad name choice. We can (and I have) come up with in-game reasons for why the character chose it, but that doesn't actually alleviate the non-diagetic faux pas. I'm sure that whoever created the character wasn't trying to be a dick. But there are perfectly good reasons as to why that character name is a bad choice.

 

@PamelaIsley I also like the character write up. I especially like the intersection with Invictus. I think they make the seeds of a great campaign arc. But I'd change the name. I can see him choosing something Celtic like Balor. It's too obscure to actually have the cultural weight he's hoping for, but he is an idiot. It's also got the clash of cultures thing going with Invictus and his Latin name.

 

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59 minutes ago, drunkonduty said:

 

He could simply be an idiot. Right there in the description we have two contrary statements about his personality - One he has a sense of noblesse oblige and wants people to join him (all happiness and hugs); Two - he wants to strike fear into people (not so many hugs). He certainly wouldn't be the first person in history to hold and believe in two contrary ideas.

 

To the folks who are trying to brush away the unfortunate implications of a character called holocaust by pointing out it's an ancient word with other meanings. Yes, yes. Well done.

 

But do you really think that an obscure ancient Greek word carries more cultural baggage in the modern, English speaking, western world than the fucking Holocaust? (And yes moderators,  I do think the fucking Holocaust deserves use of that adjective.) It's a bad name choice. We can (and I have) come up with in-game reasons for why the character chose it, but that doesn't actually alleviate the non-diagetic faux pas. I'm sure that whoever created the character wasn't trying to be a dick. But there are perfectly good reasons as to why that character name is a bad choice.

 

 

Marvel and DC each have a villain named "Holocaust".

 

Marvel's Holocaust is a genocidal maniac whose goal seemed to be to extinguish all life on Earth.

 

DC's Holocaust (acquired when they purchased Milestone Comics and integrated those characters into the DC universe) has nothing to do with Jews or genocide but instead he has fire powers (which I presume relates his name to the original meaning of the word "holocaust").

 

 

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The Invictus issue was such an obvious error that I just ignore it all together. As for Holocaust and the appropriateness of his name....well...he is a villain. He's a megalomanic and a casual killer. I think the name fits. In my campaign, he is one of the more obvious 'we need to stop this guy" villains.

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18 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

The Invictus issue was such an obvious error that I just ignore it all together. 

 

It is a very obvious error.  But it's not even just one sentence.  And it's not like Invictus is a 6E villain. He was in 5E too, with the same backstory.

 

But it is easy enough to ignore.

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By the way, people forget, Holocaust was the winner of the 'name this villain' contest. A contest most of the players of the original Champions 1 (and Enemies 1, where he graced the cover but had no writeup) didn't even know was happening.

 

Not only that, but they might not of been a 'winner', and somehow Holocaust was chosen. So...anyways...

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5 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

The Invictus issue was such an obvious error that I just ignore it all together. As for Holocaust and the appropriateness of his name....well...he is a villain. He's a megalomanic and a casual killer. I think the name fits. In my campaign, he is one of the more obvious 'we need to stop this guy" villains.

 

His name is probably also relevant to the experience of working with or for him. Holocaust has intellect, power, wealth and connections -- all he should need to become a major threat to global security. But he's also an arrogant, undisciplined, impulsive, vindictive, insufferable jerk. Those qualities have screwed up his own plans time after time. It amazes me that so many mercenary supervillains are described as still having a good relationship with him.

 

With that background and personality, Holocaust might even be played a little for laughs. In which case his chosen code name could make fodder for mockery.

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5 hours ago, steriaca said:

By the way, people forget, Holocaust was the winner of the 'name this villain' contest. A contest most of the players of the original Champions 1 (and Enemies 1, where he graced the cover but had no writeup) didn't even know was happening.

 

Not only that, but they might not of been a 'winner', and somehow Holocaust was chosen. So...anyways...

 

The name was first associated with the character in a Cardboard Heroes set of Champions villains produced by SJGames. As a result, when the competition to design the character was run later, one of the rules was that the name Holocaust couldn't be used.

 

Since none of the entries were considered to be of an acceptable standard, there was no winner, and the character was left in limbo for decades. When he was statted out for 5e, the only previous published name was used.

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21 hours ago, archer said:

 

I find that I'm not particularly fond of a lot of superbeing names.

 

But since other people are making those names choices, I just chalk it up to everyone in the world except me being weird.

No, everybody in the world is weird, including you, but we're just a different type of weird

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3 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

How about a name change to Malice? Short, sweet and to the point.

 

Malice as a name has been pretty well played out; there's been 6 different Malice's in Marvel alone. It's also usually associated with female characters...maybe because it rhymes with Alice, I don't know, but it seems to have a fem connotation for many people.

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As far as his name goes, be it sensitive or what, I'm reminded of the old saying....."Those that forget the past...are doomed to repeat it!"  I shall not go into my beliefs any further, because they are mine and may not be anyone else's!  

 

Don't worry, be HAPPY!!!   ?

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10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

His name is probably also relevant to the experience of working with or for him. Holocaust has intellect, power, wealth and connections -- all he should need to become a major threat to global security. But he's also an arrogant, undisciplined, impulsive, vindictive, insufferable jerk. Those qualities have screwed up his own plans time after time. It amazes me that so many mercenary supervillains are described as still having a good relationship with him.

 

He's an obnoxious jerk, but he tips well. I mean, he's a jerk about that, too, but who cares when it's 50% on top of tax! 

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