San Angelo: City of Heroes, 20 years later

[borbetomagnus]

I'm totally looking forward to the new edition of San Angelo: City of Heroes. I was just browsing through my original copy yesterday for a planned Champions game.

[Ninja-Bear]

Another thing you might need to consider is “edition”. As you know there is the 2 vol 6th ed rules -which is the rules. However people are using Champions Complete (& in theory you can use Fantasy Hero Complete too). There are some differences between 6th tomes and CC, though in my opinion (at take that for what you will) is really too small too matter but it’s there. I remember the late author Sataran voicing some concern for his modules which I believed he defaulted to CC in those rare occasions. I just bring this up so you have a heads up, if it becomes an issue. 

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Another thing you might need to consider is “edition”. As you know there is the 2 vol 6th ed rules -which is the rules. However people are using Champions Complete (& in theory you can use Fantasy Hero Complete too). There are some differences between 6th tomes and CC, though in my opinion (at take that for what you will) is really too small too matter but it’s there. I remember the late author Sataran voicing some concern for his modules which I believed he defaulted to CC in those rare occasions. I just bring this up so you have a heads up, if it becomes an issue. 

Right now, it shouldn't be an issue. We all been told by the Hero Games gurus themselves to default to Champions Complete. The only real changes are mental powers (by removal of mental classes) and certain skills (which use to have "pick a specialization" as default, but now becomes more generic in nature).

 

Of course this is a generation, as somebody will say "what about x?" and "what about y?".

[RPMiller]

33 minutes ago, steriaca said:

Right now, it shouldn't be an issue. We all been told by the Hero Games gurus themselves to default to Champions Complete. The only real changes are mental powers (by removal of mental classes) and certain skills (which use to have "pick a specialization" as default, but now becomes more generic in nature).

 

Of course this is a generation, as somebody will say "what about x?" and "what about y?".

Has Hero Designer been updated to reflect this or does it have an option to enforce Champions Complete? As the person who will likely be creating all the characters in HD, the answer to that is pretty critical.

[Spence]

12 hours ago, Dkap said:

When creating a fictional city you want to put as much detail as you can to make it its own.You are doing a great job and i can't wait to see more.You are an inspiration and best of luck with this.

 

I am so glad to see another version of San Angelo hit the street.  I have four of the books and the two short products and am really stoked to see another version being  made.

 

But to the point.

Detail is very important.  But for me one of the most important features is a usable map of the city and good area map of the areas around the city.

 

The one RPG city that I religiously use for any modern game.  And by modern I mean the 1940's to near future.  That city is Hudson City.  And the biggest reason is the big map.  The county map frankly sucks as a resource, but that city map is awesome. 

 

Why?  It has all the streets with names.  I say again it has a complete usable street map with names.  The blocks are there and major points of interest are marked like a modern physical street map.  This gives the GM solid and easily accessible locations while leaving all of the actual buildings/structures undefined and open for them to put their own spin in without having to worry about needing the players to ignore something.

 

And one of the biggest points is the map (color) is of a high enough resolution you can zoom into any part of it, grab a screen shot and print it without it losing resolution when printed out.    I have a poster sized version I put in a poster sleeve that I lay on the table and people can write on it with dry erase without damaging the map. 

 

I can really use the HC map in game by zooming in and grabbing locations for the scenario. 

 

Trying to come up with logical street names over a campaign is not as easy as one would think, and having a map that actually has them really makes a city seem real.  When players look at the big map of HC on the table they see a city map, not a map of an RPG city,

 

OK, the preaching is over

 

 

 

[RPMiller]

20 minutes ago, Spence said:

 

I am so glad to see another version of San Angelo hit the street.  I have four of the books and the two short products and am really stoked to see another version being  made.

 

But to the point.

Detail is very important.  But for me one of the most important features is a usable map of the city and good area map of the areas around the city.

 

The one RPG city that I religiously use for any modern game.  And by modern I mean the 1940's to near future.  That city is Hudson City.  And the biggest reason is the big map.  The county map frankly sucks as a resource, but that city map is awesome. 

 

Why?  It has all the streets with names.  I say again it has a complete usable street map with names.  The blocks are there and major points of interest are marked like a modern physical street map.  This gives the GM solid and easily accessible locations while leaving all of the actual buildings/structures undefined and open for them to put their own spin in without having to worry about needing the players to ignore something.

 

And one of the biggest points is the map (color) is of a high enough resolution you can zoom into any part of it, grab a screen shot and print it without it losing resolution when printed out.    I have a poster sized version I put in a poster sleeve that I lay on the table and people can write on it with dry erase without damaging the map. 

 

I can really use the HC map in game by zooming in and grabbing locations for the scenario. 

 

Trying to come up with logical street names over a campaign is not as easy as one would think, and having a map that actually has them really makes a city seem real.  When players look at the big map of HC on the table they see a city map, not a map of an RPG city,

 

OK, the preaching is over

 

 

 

And does topology factor in at all? Heights of buildings, hills in the city, that sort of thing, or do you look at it more as a series of roads with locations?

 

[Spence]

18 minutes ago, RPMiller said:

And does topology factor in at all? Heights of buildings, hills in the city, that sort of thing, or do you look at it more as a series of roads with locations?

 

 

All those things are fine.  But generally on a city map to much will raise the clutter to a point the map isn't usable. 

 

Look at part of a standard city map of New York.  This is perfect for an ongoing game.  Everyone knows how to read it and the GM doesn't have to try and notate the names of everything on the fly. 

 

 

A topographical map with street names may work if the clutter is kept low.  But once you start entering actual building and try to include height notation it can get unwieldy fast.   Maybe if there was a street map and a separate detail map.  But my guess is two maps of that quality that had to match would be cost prohibitive. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Sterica I wasn’t aware of CC being “official” now by the GM gurus. If it is, great.  I just wanted to point out a possible problem. But I see it as no more of a problem than using Advance Players Guides too. 

[RPMiller]

1 hour ago, Spence said:

 

All those things are fine.  But generally on a city map to much will raise the clutter to a point the map isn't usable. 

 

Look at part of a standard city map of New York.  This is perfect for an ongoing game.  Everyone knows how to read it and the GM doesn't have to try and notate the names of everything on the fly. 

 

 

A topographical map with street names may work if the clutter is kept low.  But once you start entering actual building and try to include height notation it can get unwieldy fast.   Maybe if there was a street map and a separate detail map.  But my guess is two maps of that quality that had to match would be cost prohibitive. 

So something like this?

 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lower+Manhattan,+New+York,+NY/@40.6951256,-74.0133206,1729a,35y,38.97t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x89c2588f046ee661:0xa0b3281fcecc08c!2sManhattan,+New+York,+NY!3b1!8m2!3d40.7830603!4d-73.9712488!3m4!1s0x89c259885419838b:0x2d39c2f6ed6db3c!8m2!3d40.7208516!4d-74.0006447

 

[goldrushg]

5 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

There are some differences between 6th tomes and CC... I just bring this up so you have a heads up, if it becomes an issue. 

1

 

Thank you for the heads up. At this point I simply am not familiar enough with the current edition of the rules to make an informed decision, so my inclination is to go with:

 

1) What the Hero Games license requires (if it requires one over the other)

2) The preference of the impeccable Steven Long.

3) Any overwhelming and obvious will of the fans

4) The preference of my 6E character writeup creator person.

5) My gut.

 

...in that order.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Great news!

[goldrushg]

2 hours ago, Spence said:

Detail is very important.  But for me one of the most important features is a usable map of the city and good area map of the areas around the city.

2

 

Here is my very direct and honest reply to the above, with the caveat that funding will dictate the outcome to some degree. With that said, however...

 

I want damn fine city and area maps for SACoH2. I want maps that are large and detailed enough to print as a poster, because, well... I want to print some as posters! I want the maps designed as vector images to facilitate this. I also want maps that can be used as snazzy-looking, hyperlinked maps on our web site. Linked to what? To our disgustingly huge and detailed Wiki.

 

"Wait, Wiki?"

 

You read that right.

[Steve]

I'm curious about the current situations of a few things and hope to see expansions on them:

1) Gaviota Island Federal Penitentiary: It was almost full when the original book came out. Were more such facilities built? Who works there now? Did they ever have any breakouts?

2) On a similar line, how do underage supercriminals get dealt with? Would a teenaged supervillain get sentenced to Gaviota or is there now a youth facility of some sort for them?

3) Dragon's Gate had quite a lot of details on San Angelo's Chinatown, but I'd also like some more details on other ethnic regions in the city. Is there a barrio area maybe? 

4) Are there any "Friendly Neighborhood" type of superheroes who don't deal with much outside their little part of San Angelo? Maybe having a lower-powered hero or two would be nice for a Spider-Man homage of some kind.

 

[steriaca]

7 hours ago, goldrushg said:

 

Thank you for the heads up. At this point I simply am not familiar enough with the current edition of the rules to make an informed decision, so my inclination is to go with:

 

1) What the Hero Games license requires (if it requires one over the other)

2) The preference of the impeccable Steven Long.

3) Any overwhelming and obvious will of the fans

4) The preference of my 6E character writeup creator person.

5) My gut.

 

...in that order.

1) I believe Hero Games licensing focuses on CC vs the two massive 6ed books which are out of print.

 

2) Steve Long prefers the full 6ed, and his rules judgments are still mostly the two big books.

 

3) This is unknown. How many of us have physical copies of CC? How many of us have the electronic copies of it? How many of us have physical copies of the two big 6ed books?

 

4) Except for two things, there is not much difference. One is full of details, but honestly heavy and expensive. The other is cheep, has a free electronic version attached to it, and is easy to carry about, but lacks details.

 

5) That would depend upon yourself, of course. We can't answer that for you. Only you can answer that. Which begs the question, which version of 6ed do you have easy access to right now? What is on your bookshelf or writing desk? If the two big books, then go with that, with a sidebar for Champions Complete users. (Not all characters will need that, of course. Mostly mentalist and those with altered minds, and skill mongers.)

[steriaca]

10 hours ago, RPMiller said:

Has Hero Designer been updated to reflect this or does it have an option to enforce Champions Complete? As the person who will likely be creating all the characters in HD, the answer to that is pretty critical.

I don't have Hero Designer, so I can't tell you.

[borbetomagnus]

The version of Hero Designer that I'm using, which I think has the latest update, only has options for 5th edition revised or 6th edition (the two volume Blue Books).

[Spence]

9 hours ago, RPMiller said:

So something like this?

 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lower+Manhattan,+New+York,+NY/@40.6951256,-74.0133206,1729a,35y,38.97t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x89c2588f046ee661:0xa0b3281fcecc08c!2sManhattan,+New+York,+NY!3b1!8m2!3d40.7830603!4d-73.9712488!3m4!1s0x89c259885419838b:0x2d39c2f6ed6db3c!8m2!3d40.7208516!4d-74.0006447

 

Not really.  Far too busy for on the table use.  I used a copy of HC map for a CoC modern game where I printed a large copy for the players so they could write on it.  Worked great.  But a map resembling a satellite image simply is too cluttered for use.  I also will put buildings where I need them which is harder if tgey are actually on the map. 

 

HC had a near perfect amount of info.  The separate sewer system map would have been better at a higher resolution.

[Spence]

9 hours ago, goldrushg said:

 

Here is my very direct and honest reply to the above, with the caveat that funding will dictate the outcome to some degree. With that said, however...

 

I want damn fine city and area maps for SACoH2. I want maps that are large and detailed enough to print as a poster, because, well... I want to print some as posters! I want the maps designed as vector images to facilitate this. I also want maps that can be used as snazzy-looking, hyperlinked maps on our web site. Linked to what? To our disgustingly huge and detailed Wiki.

 

"Wait, Wiki?"

 

You read that right.

Looking forward to it. 

 

 

 

 

[RPMiller]

 

1 hour ago, steriaca said:

I don't have Hero Designer, so I can't tell you.

 

10 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Sterica I wasn’t aware of CC being “official” now by the GM gurus. If it is, great.  I just wanted to point out a possible problem. But I see it as no more of a problem than using Advance Players Guides too. 

 

Sounds like it may not be canon then.

[steriaca]

Goldrush Games might want to talk to the Head Men of Hero Games before they start work, just to get the "official" word on it all. Then proceed with whatever they have handy. I don't think it is automatically unusable if it is the two big books vs one book, as the rules are at the basic level the same.

 

Just a sidebar about conversion to the other book should suffice. And then only a small section should be needed.

[RPMiller]

On 3/28/2019 at 8:07 AM, steriaca said:

Goldrush Games might want to talk to the Head Men of Hero Games before they start work, just to get the "official" word on it all. Then proceed with whatever they have handy. I don't think it is automatically unusable if it is the two big books vs one book, as the rules are at the basic level the same.

 

Just a sidebar about conversion to the other book should suffice. And then only a small section should be needed.

 

I think that since those conversion notes are already in the Champions Complete supplements, I don't think Gold Rush Games needs to do anything beyond mentioning to refer to it should the GM wish to use CC as their ruleset. No sense reinventing the wheel. That way HD can be used and make the process that much easier.

[John Desmarais]

Nifty news.  It’s kind of funny though.  I’ve never actually used San Angelo in a game, but i’ve (very often) used it as an example of “here’s how to write up a city for a superhero RPG”.

[John Desmarais]

12 hours ago, goldrushg said:

 

Thank you for the heads up. At this point I simply am not familiar enough with the current edition of the rules to make an informed decision, so my inclination is to go with:

 

1) What the Hero Games license requires (if it requires one over the other)

2) The preference of the impeccable Steven Long.

3) Any overwhelming and obvious will of the fans

4) The preference of my 6E character writeup creator person.

5) My gut.

 

...in that order.

 

Well with regards to #3, my preference will always tend towards “the currently available version”.

[Scott Ruggels]

;__; They have a better Radio Market that the bay Area has now. ?,  in the old days they had a Rock Station Rivalry going on between KOME 98.5FM, and KSJO 92.3FM in San Jose, back in the day, so it was interesting how the two would play off each other for Concert tickets, and shows. Really made the Rock music scene come alive in the 1970's and 80's.  with San Francisco being only 2-3 hours away , there might be an EDM one. You need to have a College Radio station orf low to moderate power for the strange music, conspiracy shows, and "public access" type public affairs shows.  ("Today, we are talking to  Ulie  Armstrong, the now retired Sgt. S.M.A.S.H. of Westguard. A Superhero of a decidedly Mixed Reputation. So, Sergeant, can you explain how you and your suit were such and instrumental tool of U.S> Imperialism through the 80's and 1990's?".  "excuse me... what?")

[Ninja-Bear]

Yeah I see it as having no more than a sidebar somewhere too. With maybe a note with all rules default to 6v1&2. I brought it up cause they were taking readers characters. Each of those could have a note of what rules were used.