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Starlord

Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker

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1 hour ago, Bazza said:

The Last Jedi: latest Star Wars is a fable for our post-truth times

https://theconversation.com/the-last-jedi-latest-star-wars-is-a-fable-for-our-post-truth-times-89256

 

 

I once pissed off a professor by turning in an extensive thesis on the political and social commentaries contained within the Dr. Suess title "Green Eggs and Ham."

 

She was pissed that I had done it, that I had done it well, and that she could not shoot it down.  (Though I did get a couple of deductions for random punctuation errors and failing to italicize something or other in the bibliography).

 

I did it mostly -- well, not _just_ to irritate her, but to express my displeasure at this sort of nonsense:  if you want to see it bad enough, you will.  You will see anything and everything you could ever hope for, simply because you get to pick and chose your evidence, both from your "work of art" and from your "obviously talking about" stuff from the real world.  The more generic the material you're working with, the easier it is to do. The younger you are, the easier it is to do, because you haven't stepped back enough to not need that validation anymore.  At the end of the day, don't accept any of it, because no matter what someone claims it says, he's as full of crap as the guy saying the opposite.  We need to stop looking for validation for our dumbass opinions.  Eventually, we all going to have to, or we will just stop growing all together. 

 

Put more in keeping with my casual demeanor:  you don't need this political claptrap.  Star Wars can suck all by itself, on its own merits.

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I got to see the movie with my kids over Christmas break. And to my surprise, enjoyed it! It probably helped that 

 

1) I had a low opinion going into it.

2) I really never read the expanded Universe that much and never Heir of the Empire. Geez I didn’t like the idea then that the Emperor came back as a clone.

3) it’s just a movie, I sat back and watched.

4) I really like the fast pace of it.

 

Light skipping wasn’t a problem for me.

1) This IS Star Wars where the main Heroes pull off incredible stuff.

2) They showed how dangerous it was and explained how dangerous it was.  I think the Falcon being on fire was a hint that it got too close to a star.

 

I like how they grounded the fleet in the end. Ok Death Star grade lasers on each ship? Not as much a fan but oh well. Admiral Pryde was a nice touch.  I think Snoke was a clone of Darth Plagius I was really and pleasantly surprised to see Han again. Loved the scene where Luke raises up his X-wing!

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Actually, I thought the reveal that Leia had progressed in her own Jedi training to the point that she had crafted her own Lightsabre vindicated her little spacewalk in TLJ.

 

One issue I have  not seen raised - both Luke and Rey were extremely Force-strong.  The Prequels established that the Jedi Order frowns on Jedi having romantic relationships.  While it suggests they distract from the Jedi's duty, perhaps there is a more hidden reason that they knew that the offspring of those already "strong in the Force" were equally, or more, strong.  Cloning is bad enough - imagine a Jedi/Sith breeding program over a few generations.

 

Oh, and Ninja-Bear captures my experience in the theatre as well.  Of the three, this was the best.

 

With 20/20 hindsight, I think this trilogy tried to do too much, and as a result achieved too little.  Trying to focus on both the Classic team and the New Team effectively pushed out the time needed to really develop the new team, especially in the first two films.  While Carrie Fisher's death may have prevented some of this, reducing Leia's role, they did not make the mistake of excessive focus on Lando (or Luke or Han in ForceGhost form).  Instead, the first trilogy main  characters were treated as they probably should have been treated from the outset, as mentors with a limited role and not the stars of the show.  Had FInn, Poe and Rey been the focus from the outset, instead of the first movie being "Han Solo Flies Again", perhaps we would have seen a better result.

 

That huge cast also cost us something the first trilogy had - a Universe outside the Rebellion and the Empire/First Order.  Comparing RoTJ to RoS, the former had the opener at Jabba's Palace.  The latter had...a bit of backstory chat as we worked to stop the First Order. 

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Hugh I agree about Leia’s Jedi training solving her Jedi walk in Episode 8. Btw after that stunt in 8 and Rey’s incredible use of the Force in 7, I tried to explain to my brother that instantaneous use of the Force is actually a mechanic used in Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook from West End Games. 

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Had to go to two cinemas to see it. First one showing it at 10:30 was full for it until 13:20. So I tried the newer one showing the film at 11:00.  Had to pay nearly double £8.25 as opposed to £4.99.

Again bad writing marred it.



At the end so many star ships.

As mentioned previously, the mole suddenly appearing and being dispatched so swiftly was a let down.

what was the point of all the Sith on the planet ?

how on earth do you justify the creation of so many star destroyers ?

The Emperor's force powers were too powerful against the ships at the end

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This is just one man's opinion, and you could disagree with me. After watching "The Last Jedi", my expectations were lowered. In my opinion, TLJ was worse than "Revenge of the Sith". RotS is a bad movie, just not as episodes 1 & 2. Overall, the fun parts outnumbered the non-fun parts. I wish it was as good as Avengers: Endgame, but that did not happen. I disagree with the movie critics, and I give a slight recommendation for others to watch this movie.

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2 hours ago, death tribble said:

Had to go to two cinemas to see it. First one showing it at 10:30 was full for it until 13:20. So I tried the newer one showing the film at 11:00.  Had to pay nearly double £8.25 as opposed to £4.99.

Again bad writing marred it.

 

  Hide contents

 

 


At the end so many star ships.

As mentioned previously, the mole suddenly appearing and being dispatched so swiftly was a let down.

what was the point of all the Sith on the planet ?

how on earth do you justify the creation of so many star destroyers ?

The Emperor's force powers were too powerful against the ships at the end
 

 

 

So many Star ships, yeah but this is both the Empire and Star Wars.

 

The mole? I like the way Pryde handled the mole. I.e. the Empire ain’t stupid.

 

The Sith cultist were to worship Palestine and do other things.

 

The same way you justify a Death Star. And I think it was to show that this time the Empire finally learned not to put all their eggs in one basket so to speak.

 

Actually no, in Dark Saber novel (now Legends) a Jedi student Dorsk 81 threw an ENTIRE fleet of Empire out of system. He died but still. Galan  Marek in the video game (which is cannon) pulls down a Star Destroyer.  So not really over powered. 


Of course ymmv 😁

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1.  Empire Strikes Back

2.  A New Hope

3.  Rogue One

4.  Return of the Jedi*

5.  Force Awakens

6.  Revenge of the Sith

7.  Rise of Skywalker

8.  Solo**

9.  Phantom Menace

10.  Attack of the Clones***

11.  Last Jedi 

 

*Large gap in quality between 3 and 4

 

** This movie is hard to rank for me.  It's a good movie with solid writing, action and dialogue.  However, the main character is NOT Han Solo and will never be Han Solo, thus it probably should never have been made.

 

*** Another massive gap in quality between 9 and 10

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1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

So many Star ships, yeah but this is both the Empire and Star Wars.

 

The mole? I like the way Pryde handled the mole. I.e. the Empire ain’t stupid.

 

The Sith cultist were to worship Palestine and do other things.

 

The same way you justify a Death Star. And I think it was to show that this time the Empire finally learned not to put all their eggs in one basket so to speak.

 

Actually no, in Dark Saber novel (now Legends) a Jedi student Dorsk 81 threw an ENTIRE fleet of Empire out of system. He died but still. Galan  Marek in the video game (which is cannon) pulls down a Star Destroyer.  So not really over powered. 


Of course ymmv 😁

 

Does this mean we can't trust Kitty Pryde in the X-Men movies?

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4 hours ago, Bazza said:

One of those starships that came to help was the Serenity. Yes, Firefly’s Serenity. 

I suspect, once stills of that scene get out there, we will find many hidden starships from various science fiction books, tv shows and movies hidden in there.

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Since we're well into spoiler territory in the thread now, I can get a little deeper into my impressions of the film.

 

Liked:

 

What we saw of Exegol.  Epic and creepy design.  Wish we could have seen more of it.

Luke's redemption as force ghost.  Especially when he lifted the X-Wing, which he didn't believe was possible in Episode V.

Rey's eventual acceptance of herself.

Ben's face turn.

Finn's apparent Force sensitivity.

Hux's betrayal of Kylo Ren, which makes perfect sense.  Wish we could have seen more of it.

The banter between the characters.  J. J. Abrams may be bad at SF, but he's good at dialogue.

All lightsaber fight choreography.  Really just lightsabers in general.

The final starship battle, with ALL THE SHIPS.  Wish we could have seen more of it.

Retroactively filling in plot holes.  Leia's survival of hard vacuum makes more sense if she's actually trained.  Snoke's pathetic demise makes more sense if he was just a golem. 

The return of Palpatine.  This makes the entire trilogy trilogy the machinations of one ultimate bad guy.  Palpatine is a good bad guy.

 

 

Disliked:

 

The rushed pace of the film.  It really had that highlight-reel feel, where there isn't time for explanation or character development outside of Ben and Rey.

Obviously no one's learned tactics since the end of TLJ.

Macguffins.  The map dagger.  Leia's lightsaber.  Long-forgotten, yet still fully functional, ships.  Sith maps.  D/O.  Too many macguffins.

Plot holes and coicidences.  Where did Kylo Ren get hold of an old school TIE fighter?  That was hyperspace capable?  How did ALL THE SHIPS get to Exegol in a matter of minutes?  How did Exegol build and staff literally hundreds of planet killing Star Destroyers without anyone noticing?  How did the heroes just happen to crash in the one patch of quicksand on the party planet that just happened to be where the macguffin was kept?

Rey's heritage.  Why does everyone in Star Wars have to be related to everyone else?  It's effing annoying.  Plus I don't like the entire birthright-to-power trope as a rule.  It would have been more effective, in my opinion, for Rey to have been a literal nobody.

The lack of Rose.  It would have been really nice for TROS to have redeemed an otherwise great character from the out-of-nowhere love interest at the end of TLJ.  Instead she was effectively cut from the film, to make room for Lando fanservice and a nameless girl who's a First Order deserter.

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15 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I got to see the movie with my kids over Christmas break. And to my surprise, enjoyed it! It probably helped that 

 

1) I had a low opinion going into it.

2) I really never read the expanded Universe that much and never Heir of the Empire. Geez I didn’t like the idea then that the Emperor came back as a clone.

3) it’s just a movie, I sat back and watched.

4) I really like the fast pace of it.

 

Light skipping wasn’t a problem for me.

1) This IS Star Wars where the main Heroes pull off incredible stuff.

2) They showed how dangerous it was and explained how dangerous it was.  I think the Falcon being on fire was a hint that it got too close to a star.

 

I like how they grounded the fleet in the end. Ok Death Star grade lasers on each ship? Not as much a fan but oh well. Admiral Pryde was a nice touch.  I think Snoke was a clone of Darth Plagius I was really and pleasantly surprised to see Han again. Loved the scene where Luke raises up his X-wing!

 

Yeah, I have to admit I wasn't a big fan of the Dark Empire part of the EU.  Though, I will say if you are gonna bring back the Emperor as a clone, that would be the way.

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7 hours ago, Starlord said:

1.  Empire Strikes Back

2.  A New Hope

3.  Rogue One

4.  Return of the Jedi*

5.  Force Awakens

6.  Revenge of the Sith

7.  Rise of Skywalker

8.  Solo**

9.  Phantom Menace

10.  Attack of the Clones***

11.  Last Jedi 

 

*Large gap in quality between 3 and 4

 

** This movie is hard to rank for me.  It's a good movie with solid writing, action and dialogue.  However, the main character is NOT Han Solo and will never be Han Solo, thus it probably should never have been made.

 

*** Another massive gap in quality between 9 and 10

 

Yeah, definitely agree with the bottom 3 (though I haven't, nor will I likely anytime soon watch Rise of Skywalker-maybe when it comes on TV, and I am prepared to do a little MST3K just in case, and I haven't watched Solo, either.  Though, I do plan to watch it when it comes on TV, to give a belated shot)

 

But for the others, I would switch up ROTS move it up to #4 and move 4 and 5 down.  I did sort of like Ep 3, it was solid, and definitely saved the prequels to an extent.  The monstrosity that was 1 and 2 probably does bring it down.  Force Awakens is kind of hard for me to rate.  It was a fairly unmemorable take or leave, whose ranking was going to depend on what came after, and then the Last Jedi happened.  So, it will be forever tainted for me because of it.  Just like I imagine Ep 3 is somewhat tainted for some because of 1 and 2.

 

I am not much of a theater goer, The Last Jedi was the first time I had went in many years, because of it, it will be many more years before I go back.

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A New Hope

Return of the Jedi

Empire Strikes Back

Revenge of the Sith

Phantom Menace

Attack of the Clones

Rise of Skywalker

Force Awakens

Last Jedi 

 

Rogue One

Solo

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As for ordering the films I would have to put the first three ahead of the rest (New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi). I would then add Rogue One. But then you have the problem of whether you let your hatred of Jar Jar and Hayden Christensen's attacking i deciding where you put the next trilogy. And does it overcome JJ Abrams ? This is what decides where the last trilogy goes.

 

Plus side members of the original cast in new trilogy.

Down side the writing. For example Would Luke really try to kill Ben that way

 

Your view may differ. But there are a number of us on the board who can claim truthfully that we saw all the films at the cinema in their first run. I am one of them.

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6 hours ago, death tribble said:

As for ordering the films I would have to put the first three ahead of the rest (New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi). I would then add Rogue One. But then you have the problem of whether you let your hatred of Jar Jar and Hayden Christensen's attacking i deciding where you put the next trilogy. And does it overcome JJ Abrams ? This is what decides where the last trilogy goes.

 

Plus side members of the original cast in new trilogy.

Down side the writing. For example Would Luke really try to kill Ben that way

 

Your view may differ. But there are a number of us on the board who can claim truthfully that we saw all the films at the cinema in their first run. I am one of them.

 

I think it could have overcome JJ Abrams, the problem is it cant overcome Rian Johnson, blithering stupidity.

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On 12/31/2019 at 5:43 PM, Bazza said:

One of those starships that came to help was the Serenity. Yes, Firefly’s Serenity. 

 

From what I can tell from other reviews,  Hux seems to end up being a Norrington from Pirates of the Caribbean ripoff, IMO, with the respective character arcs

 

Disney recycling their own plots?  Say it aint so, Walt.

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