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Avengers Endgame with spoilers

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3 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

That sounds like Eric Bana's Special Forces character at the end of Black Hawk Down.

 

To be fair though, if you shoot Eric Bana, he just changes into the Hulk.

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1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

However, I also agree with the point that this descended into farce.  This arc could have been shown without "porky Thor" and "eat a salad".

 

Marvel and Chris Hemsworth both wanted to take Thor in a more comedic direction, because the noble warrior persona wasn't connecting with the general audience. Classic Thor is my favorite superhero, but it seemed to me that Infinity War balanced those competing interpretations effectively. I haven't yet been able to ascertain how the majority of the audience responded to what was done with him in Endgame. Personally I loathe it, as I indicated earlier on the thread.

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I simply assumed that he still had all his muscle under that fat. As much emphasis as the current media puts on looking good, it's still entirely possible to be in great cardiovascular condition and have large amounts of well-developed muscle and still have fat on top of all that.

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Maybe, but the implication of his story is that he hadn't done much besides indulge himself for five years. That has to take a toll even on a god. I think it showed most in Thor's fight with Thanos. Thor still had his skill, his powers, and maybe even his strength, but his speed, agility, and stamina seemed to have fallen well below their previous exceptional heights. Had he still been in the same condition as in Infinity War I believe he'd have been at least a match for Thanos.

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13 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Added to that, Thor was singled out.  "You should have gone for the head."  He made a split-second decision that, had he made a different choice, perhaps could have won.  And he did go for the head when it was too late.  He took personal responsibility for half the universe being wiped out.

 

As I explained in a previous post, whether or not Thor could have successfully sniped Thanos's head with his thrown axe, after Stormbreaker hit him Thanos was on his knees, dazed and helpless. Thor could have easily cut off his head, or cut off the Infinity Gauntlet, or just broken Thanos's neck. Instead Thor tortured him, plainly wanting him to suffer for his murders. That gave Thanos time to collect himself and pull off his snap. That was unquestionably Thor's screw-up. (Ironically it's just the sort of gloating comic-book villains traditionally do, which gives heroes an opening to turn the tables on them.)

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As I reflect on the movie, I think of the scene on Asgard, with Thor holding out his hand for Mjolnir.  I wonder whether he fully expected nothing to happen.  After a couple of minutes, he would turn to his mother and say "Do you see now?  I am no longer worthy. Your son is a failure." 

 

When Mjolnir came, he was reassured that, whatever his failures - loss of Asgard, loss of his friends, loss of his father, mother and brother, the critical error that cost half the lives in the universe, or slaughtering a helpless, defeated Thanos - he was still worthy.  That hero, who throws himself in harm's way to protect, defend or avenge others, was still in there, even when he didn't believe it himself.

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13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Marvel and Chris Hemsworth both wanted to take Thor in a more comedic direction, because the noble warrior persona wasn't connecting with the general audience. Classic Thor is my favorite superhero, but it seemed to me that Infinity War balanced those competing interpretations effectively. I haven't yet been able to ascertain how the majority of the audience responded to what was done with him in Endgame. Personally I loathe it, as I indicated earlier on the thread.

 

I don't have the personal "favorite" aspect when it comes to Thor. He was always just around, and certain runs of the comic were good, but the character never connected with me... not like Cap or Daredevil or Iron Fist... characters I really loved in my formative days. I say that because I did love Thor: Ragnarok and "The Dude" Thor... not because I became personally attached to him, but because it made for good cinema. I absolutely LOVED the scene with his mother. Probably my favorite scene in a movie full of them. 

And I feel that his breaking of the hot headed, somewhat egotistical Odinson persona lent real credence to the awesome "Cap with Mjolnir" moment and his excited, "I knew it!" line which did more for his character than anything. 

 

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3 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

Cap or Daredevil or Iron Fist

 

I see a real preference for H-t-H melee specialists there. Would Wolverine go on that list if he was in the MCU? Or is he too exotic with his adamantium skeleton and regeneration?

 

I do like Cap a lot as a character; one of my favorites in the MCU actually. But as comic book superheroes go, I prefer those with flashier, top-tier superpowers. That is to say, either more than one stat in the FASERIP MN "Monstrous" (75) range and/or multiple powers that don't simply involve punching/kicking.

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4 minutes ago, zslane said:

 

I see a real preference for H-t-H melee specialists there. Would Wolverine go on that list if he was in the MCU? Or is he too exotic with his adamantium skeleton and regeneration?

 

I do like Cap a lot as a character; one of my favorites in the MCU actually. But as comic book superheroes go, I prefer those with flashier, top-tier superpowers. That is to say, either more than one stat in the FASERIP MN "Monstrous" (75) range and/or multiple powers that don't simply involve punching/kicking.

 

Captain America has massive, mega-scale powers that are all bought with fully invisible power effects.

 

He didn't face off the armies of Thanos alone because he was suicidal.  He was taking an iconic poster-worthy pose to (gestures, concentration, extra time: full phase) to cast an all-stat / all-powers aid buff on the incoming armies.

 

Think D&D style paladin aura at a larger scale.  One might even argue that his Mind Control:  Only to make people do the right thing is what made Tony Stark take himself out to save the world.

 

DM made him do that since his back-story was normal human enhanced to maximum possible potential by the super soldier serum.

 

Ok, I'm not even remotely serious, but I do like hero builds using effects along those lines.  :)

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23 minutes ago, zslane said:

 

I see a real preference for H-t-H melee specialists there. Would Wolverine go on that list if he was in the MCU? Or is he too exotic with his adamantium skeleton and regeneration?

 

I do like Cap a lot as a character; one of my favorites in the MCU actually. But as comic book superheroes go, I prefer those with flashier, top-tier superpowers. That is to say, either more than one stat in the FASERIP MN "Monstrous" (75) range and/or multiple powers that don't simply involve punching/kicking.

 

I liked Wolverine up until the post-Byrne/Austin X-Men era, when he became ubiquitous and all ragey adolescent aggression along with the Punisher. He was never a big fave.

 

And yeah... add in Black Panther (old school, before he got all armored up) and the blue-furred Beast (again, Byrne/Austin era) and they were definitely my favorites. 

I was never as big a DC fan, but in the old argument, I am Batman hands-down over Superman every time. 

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35 minutes ago, Toxxus said:

 

Captain America has massive, mega-scale powers that are all bought with fully invisible power effects.

 

He didn't face off the armies of Thanos alone because he was suicidal.  He was taking an iconic poster-worthy pose to (gestures, concentration, extra time: full phase) to cast an all-stat / all-powers aid buff on the incoming armies.

 

Think D&D style paladin aura at a larger scale.  One might even argue that his Mind Control:  Only to make people do the right thing is what made Tony Stark take himself out to save the world.

 

DM made him do that since his back-story was normal human enhanced to maximum possible potential by the super soldier serum.

 

Ok, I'm not even remotely serious, but I do like hero builds using effects along those lines.  :)

I once ran a Cap clone who was a legacy character from generations. He had presence defense - only usable by others. as long as he was up and able to fight, others felt confident.

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On 5/15/2019 at 11:10 AM, slikmar said:

I once ran a Cap clone who was a legacy character from generations. He had presence defense - only usable by others. as long as he was up and able to fight, others felt confident.

"Eyes on Cap" +2 Overall, UBO x "lots" Mega scale" Requires incantations "Cap is depending on me" or "Cap is still standing!" etc...? Lim: must have met Cap in person at some time....?

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A few nitpicky things I wanted to mention--

 

*I was disappointed by the absence of Jaimie Alexander as Lady Sif.  She was just as much a gorgeous badass as any of the other MCU female characters, and just as deserving of a place in that "A-Force" scene with all the women together.

 

*Thanos should have had a more dramatic ending than to stand around dumbfounded while his army disintegrated around him.  Something like,  "This--This Cannot Be!  I Am Inevitable!  I Am Invincible!  I.  .  .I.  .  AAAIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!"  Or alternately--"NOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

 

*There needed to be this bit of dialogue between the elder Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson--

 

STEVE: "There's a promise I want you to make before I pass this on--the same promise I made when I became Captain America."

 

SAM: "Sure--what is it?"

 

STEVE: "That you remain who you are--not a perfect soldier, but a good man."

 

SAM: "I can make that promise--and I'll keep it."

 

STEVE: "I know."  (smiles)

 

Anyway--brilliant movie.  I didn't want it to end.  Hope the next phase of movies lives up to the standard set by Avengers: Endgame.

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4 hours ago, zslane said:

Yeah, there was no way Warner Brothers was going to let Jamie Alexander take time away from Blindspot to help Disney make $2.5B.

Yeah, I think once she missed Ragnarok, there was no way they were bringing her back, even for a cameo. Having to explain why she survived where the warriors 3 didnt would have been tough. I rather would have seen her do a small part in Ragnarok, even if it was only to have a brief fight with Hela before being killed out of hand like the others.

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