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Avengers Endgame with spoilers


Bazza

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36 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

Was there a possible outcome where Clint Barton sacrifices himself instead of her? 
McFEELY There was, for sure. Jen Underdahl, our visual effects producer, read an outline or draft where Hawkeye goes over. And she goes, “Don’t you take this away from her.” I actually get emotional thinking about it. 
MARKUS And it was true, it was him taking the hit for her. It was melodramatic to have him die and not get his family back. And it is only right and proper that she’s done.

 

Okay, so it's Jen we blame ;)

(Mind you, I agree with Jen. To hell with Loki, Natasha's ledger is clean)

 

 

 

I'm glad Underdahl said that.  I wholly agree with Black Widow being the one to decide that outcome...  And that's why having a variety of people review/edit your writing is so important ;) 

 

I also like that Loki is 'back' in a sense.  Because the actor is well appreciated and liked, and he was badly wasted in Avengers 1 and 3.

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Typing this before reading comments.

 I think this might be the best movie Marvel has done.

the character stuff was amazing. Wasn't thrilled with Thor but I know Hemsworth wanted more like this. Loved that it was Pepper that knew what Tony needed to hear at end. 

The scene where Cap stood up bloody with half a shield ready to face Thanos and his army alone if needed and the portals started opening had tears rolling down my cheeks.

this movie was a great payoff for the other 20+.

 

ok, now will go and read why I didn't like it.

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On 4/27/2019 at 2:50 PM, Starlord said:

Questions - So did Cap just 'lay low' for 70 years?  How did Peter (still a teen) come back to school with his friends who may have been alive for 5 years?

 

 

They established in an earlier movie that Agent Carter had married someone who Cap had saved from Hydra captivity during WWII. Given the records-keeping in that era, it wouldn't have been difficult for someone with Agent Carter's access to have created a new identity for Steve and have added in an extra name to the records.

 

They could have just dyed his hair and changed his haircut then have been careful to keep Steve away from people who'd personally known him as Cap. That shouldn't have been too difficult. And if Agent Carter married someone who reminded her of Steve Rogers, that wouldn't have been a shock to anyone.

 

All Cap's war exploits for the news reels were shot in that grainy black and white film. In his personal appearances, he was in costume. And everyone thought he was dead. So it's not like people would be trying to spot him.

 

For Peter Parker fitting in, that's easier.

 

Half of the students in NYC had disappeared during the snap. At last count there's 1,135,334 students in public schools in NYC so 567,667 students reappeared after Tony's snap.

 

Some of Peter's high school acquaintances will have grown up and moved on. Or have died in the chaos after Thanos's snap.

 

The rest of the returnees will be going back into a very chaotic situation in a school system which doubled in size overnight and will be attending classes with people who had been in elementary or middle school five years earlier.

 

 

At the very least, school counselors and psychologists in general are going to be extremely busy over the next decade.

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On 4/28/2019 at 4:53 AM, Starlord said:

 

Ehhh, it's a big reach.  The trailer for Spider-Man shows him in a scene with all his friends...so conveniently  everyone he knew is also 5 years behind?  Big plot hole IMO.  Also, as I mentioned before, so Cap just did nothing but hide in his house for 70 years?  While in a relationship with the co-founder of SHIELD he stood by and allowed it to be taken over by HYDRA again?

 

There were several other questions like these that dampened my enjoyment somewhat.  Hopefully Spider-Man will explain many issues with the aftermath of Endgame (timeline is still massively broken, 3- 4 billion beings now dumped back on the planet after 5 years, etc.) as I've heard that it is actually the end of phase 3.  Overall still a great movie though.

 

 

 

I'd like it if they showed the aftermath. In Thanos's original snap, people would have died in car and airplane crashes. Power plants might have shut down or over-loaded. People with critical knowledge to keep things going might have been erased. Transportation systems would have broken down because there wasn't people to work the oil fields, the refineries, the ships moving processed fuel to distribution points, or drive the trucks after they got the fuel.

 

In Tony's snap, the population of the world would have more than doubled overnight. A lot of people would have died off due to the disastrous aftermath of Thanos's snap: Thanos's snap kills half of life (and not just intelligent life from the implications when the birds appear after Hulk's snap). Say another 5-10% died because of the resulting disasters and because civilization collapsed to the point where there wasn't food, water, heat, and healthcare getting to all the right places at the right times.

 

Houses, factories, and businesses would have been abandoned. Who owned the now abandoned properties, whether physical or bank accounts, would have been adjudicated in the remaining courts. Farms would have been abandoned because there were no workers and no need of those crops.

 

Many of the people who reappear will have no place to live and no job. There wouldn't be enough food for people anywhere on this planet (or any other planet).

 

I'd like to see "well, the Avengers are off on yet another relief mission so we won't see them around" during the course of Peter Parker trying to return to a normal life.

 

I wonder if you could use Pym particles on a food source and increase it's size ten thousand times over.

 

 

Speaking of Pym articles, I like that Cassie Lang is grown up enough to think about becoming a hero in her own right. I'm not sure of her age in the movies but she looked ready for high school at least....

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32 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Maybe with a new actress, but I am skeptical that there will be a big Black Widow franchise.

 

 

I expected Black Widow to live during Endgame solely because I knew there was a Black Widow movie in the works. Not sure how I feel about her being killed off.

 

 

Spy movies have been big box office for years. I could see a well-written Black Widow movie becoming a franchise as much as a Jason Bourne or a Mission Impossible.

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Was thinking about the Eternals, and wonder if they won't show up due to the messing with the timeline resulting from this movie. As was said, Thanos never came and wiped out half the universe apparently now, which is what Tony did to undo everything by destroying him.

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10 hours ago, slikmar said:

Was thinking about the Eternals, and wonder if they won't show up due to the messing with the timeline resulting from this movie. As was said, Thanos never came and wiped out half the universe apparently now, which is what Tony did to undo everything by destroying him.

 

Based on the quantum bubble theory they are going with in the MCU, every possible universe exists, so in the "main MCU" Thanos did all the bad stuff and got his head chopped off by Thor. When they went back in time they created a new timeline, where Thanos discovers them and comes to the future... and that one, he and the armies are dusted, so that alternative timeline loses their Thanos and he isn't there to continue conquering and getting the stones (so they really made THAT timeline better, most likely).

 

The real confusion comes with Cap's old man appearance. As the previously posted article goes into, there are certain assumptions you have to make, depending on your theory, and none of them seem good... except that I do feel that Cap was around, living quietly, making a life with Peggy while all the crazy stuff of the first 21 movies happened... My personal theory is, if you ask him, he'd say that the hardest fight he ever managed was NOT fighting, NOT interfering, because he knew how it all worked out. Cap's growth from almost blindly self-sacrificing to a level of enlightened self-interest, juxtaposed to Tony's arc moving from selfish hedonism to ultimate self-sacrifice.

The beauty is in the writing. There are infinite ways to explain/justify/argue about what Cap did and the implications... but by not telling us, having Cap keep it to himself... it simply allows the viewers to apply their own POV. I mean, this is crazy comics world... so many possible over-convoluted explanations... pick the one you want... we'll never know and that is just fine.

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13 hours ago, archer said:

 

 

I'd like it if they showed the aftermath. In Thanos's original snap, people would have died in car and airplane crashes. Power plants might have shut down or over-loaded. People with critical knowledge to keep things going might have been erased. Transportation systems would have broken down because there wasn't people to work the oil fields, the refineries, the ships moving processed fuel to distribution points, or drive the trucks after they got the fuel.

 

In Tony's snap, the population of the world would have more than doubled overnight.

 

Did I get things confused? I thought it was Professor Hulk who brought everyone back? Tony wiped out Thanos and company... right? Did I totally misconstrue?

And all your ideas... Marvel has shown they have writer's who can handle this complexity in a way that doesn't bog down the movie, but also doesn't ignore it. While I'd probably enjoy the hell out of a deeply science fiction take on the MCU and dealing with all the fallout of Thanos... they don't have to go that way. All they have to do is make background mention in a variety of places, the demonstrate small, but telling ramifications. A few bits in Peter's high school showing the weirdness... some empty desks, some grown up kids "Hey... weren't you in fourth grade last week?" moments... a memorial wall built that has all the disappeared on it and them looking at the pictures of themselves... etc.  Don't have to dwell on it, but weave it in... that would be powerful stuff. If they can weave in easter eggs right and left, they can weave in meaningful continuity.

Now, whether they will or not...

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Just saw it last night.  I was on vacation last week and got home Sunday night, figured I could wait until this weekend to see Endgame.  Then a bunch of people just couldn't wait to spoil it for me.  I had to get up and walk away from one guy at work because he apparently thought "hey I haven't seen it yet, don't spoil it for me" means "start explaining the movie".

 

Wow, holy crap.  That was a fantastic movie.  They really gave all the original Avengers a great conclusion to their character arcs.  I can't say that there was a "best moment" in the film, but seeing Cap using the hammer almost made me jump out of my seat and cheer.  I told my wife that I finally have that superhero body she always wanted me to get.  Thank you, Thor!

 

Other thoughts:

--The "Hail Hydra" moment made me laugh out loud.  Great scene.

--I liked Tony getting to bond with his dad, to bury the hatchet even if his dad didn't know that's what was happening.

--I had a strong suspicion that Steve was going to choose to stay in the past and grow old once they said the stones have to be returned to their original place in time.

--I loved that he finally got that dance with Peggy Carter.  Cap deserves it.

--Are there now two Nebulas running around?

--Thor threatening kids playing video games was pretty funny.

--When they made a point about only having so many Pym Particles, I wondered "why don't they get more when they're back in time?"  Glad to see Tony and Steve thought of it too.

--The look on Thanos' face when the good guy army steps through the portals was great.

--Cap struggling to his feet and walking towards Thanos and his army, alone, was a great homage to Cap confronting Thanos at the end of Infinity Gauntlet #4.

--Hulk hate stairs.  Too many stairs!

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On 4/26/2019 at 4:28 AM, Bazza said:

Google “Thanos” and click the glove. You're Welcome.

 

When I did this, the very first thing to disappear from the screen was a line of pictures of all the DC comics heroes.  Not sure if that was intentional or not. :)

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12 minutes ago, massey said:

--Are there now two Nebulas running around?

 

Future Nebula shot her past self. Only one in this timeline. (And I mentioned it before, but I'll say it here again, one of my favorite bits is that the key plot turns on Nebula, who was just a shallow caricature before this... and of all places, this movie allowed her arc and character to come to fulfillment. Her shooting herself, with almost no hesitation, was brilliant. She hated who she had been, and she knew exactly what her old self would do... and pulled the trigger. That was great.)

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3 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

Future Nebula shot her past self. Only one in this timeline. (And I mentioned it before, but I'll say it here again, one of my favorite bits is that the key plot turns on Nebula, who was just a shallow caricature before this... and of all places, this movie allowed her arc and character to come to fulfillment. Her shooting herself, with almost no hesitation, was brilliant. She hated who she had been, and she knew exactly what her old self would do... and pulled the trigger. That was great.)

 

Forgot that part.  :)

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17 hours ago, archer said:

 

The rest of the returnees will be going back into a very chaotic situation in a school system which doubled in size overnight and will be attending classes with people who had been in elementary or middle school five years earlier.

 

Presumably a large chunk of formerly dusted teachers and administration staff will have returned with the new students.  Should be a wash.  :)

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My general thoughts on the movie was that it was a good film with some great moments, but not a great film. Just too many little things bugged me for me to love it.

 

The Good:

 

The fight with Thanos was pretty sweet(bonus points for Cap with Mjolnir).

Heroes Return

"Hail Hydra"

"The People's Ass"

Tony and Cap in the 70's

Nice wrap up to the original team

 

The Bad:

Time travel plot...they never hold up under scrutiny.

The Five Year Gap

Hulk doesn't get a chance to redeem himself against Thanos? WTF?

 

The Ugly:

 

Comic relief Thor: I'd like to thank Chris Hemsworth for managing to make me hate one of my favorite Marvel characters. Not entertaining. Not funny. An insult to the character. Just god awful in all respects.

 

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So, I'm sure someone else must have noted this, but I just finished seeing it a second time, and one thing was very, very clear that I just missed, the first time.


Bucky knew.

 

He knew what Steve was going to do. He said, "I'm going to miss you," when supposedly Steve was only going to be gone for 5 seconds.

 

He smiled and turned away as Hulk and Sam freaked out when Steve didn't come back.

 

He was a bit surprised, but knew immediately who was sitting on the bench.

 

He pushed Sam to go talk to Steve and clearly knew about the shield being passed on to him. 

 

So clearly, at some point, old Steve had come to him and told him what was what. He was prepared for it. 

 

And this goes a long way towards really establishing that Steve was around for those 70 plus years incognito.

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