How do you run Contacts?

[Brian Stanfield]

I'm running a globetrotting pulp game with a lot of area/city knowledge skills, and a lot of contacts. It seems ridiculous how many points get sucked up into this stuff, so I'm wondering how you all do it more efficiently.

 

I did a little looking through the archives and found some good advice with Resource Pools. Is that a good way to go? If so, how do you show it on Hero Designer?

 

If you don't use Resource Pools, how do you do it? So far I've kept the contacts fairly vague (for example, Contact: Europe), to the point of being too  vague. But I'm wondering if this is good enough, and then allow characters to redefine them each session to meet the needs of the game. Still, this eats up a lot of Character Points, so I'm interested in the Resource Pool approach, if it works.

 

Any advice on this would be much appreciated. As many of you have seen, I'm starting with a brand new group next weekend, and I'm teaching the rules to them for the first time, so keeping everything as simple as possible is my first goal here. As long as the points make sense to me I'm ok with that, as long as I can explain what their representing. 

[Duke Bushido]

I can't help you with making them more "points effective" or such as that, but I can tell you that when a player wants a Contact, I generally ask them what _sort_ of Contact (easy, as they usually have an idea in mind), and then I ask them _why_ they want that contact.

 

Specifically, what is it that they would like a Contact to be able to do for them?

 

Sometimes they start off thinking they want an "in" with a police detective who can share certain case information with them, but when you're done talking to them, you work out that an FBI or national-level contact is more appropriate: a police detective in Campaign City isn't going to know much about what's going on in Empire City, after all.  But a Fed who works "the east coast" or "super-crimes" or something like that-- he might be more likely to produce the sorts of info or favors the player is hoping to get from a Contact.

 

I guess the only thing I can really offer you is this: make sure that the scale of the contact is appropriate for the scale of the campaign you're running.  Don't get a street informant thinking he knows the first thing about Perth, Australia.

[drunkonduty]

I always give the players the option of floating contacts. That is, the contact isn't defined until the player needs one. Then they get to say, "Luckily I know someone in Casablanca. He knows everything that's going on there." Or "My old army buddy now works for British Intelligence." You can take it further and allow them to spend spare XP to buy a contact as and when they need them. This alleviates some of the problems you've mentioned. They only spend points on Contacts their going to use at least once.

 

You can give them more points to spend on contacts and AK.

 

There's also Skill Enhancers (Well Connected reduces the cost of Contacts, I'm sure there's an equivalent for AK.)

 

As the GM you can make sure their contacts are worth the points they've spent on them. But it occurs to me that it can be difficult to make it believable with a Globe Trotting campaign... "Buddy! What are doing Kinshasa? Didn't I just see you in Shanghai last week?"

 

Oh, there's always a VPP (which I guess is how resource points work anyway) for Contacts that represents an ability to make friends wherever you go. You can call it Makes Friends Easily. Say 15 points with limitations like requires a conversation skill roll. Something similar for AK. Call it a Collection of maps and Baedekers, has a bulky focus, takes a little Extra Time.

 

Not that I mind the players spending their points on these things. I'm pretty generous with the XP (3 pts per session isn't uncommon (1 for showing up, 1 for role play, 1 for danger)) and the XP has gotta be spent on something.

[archer]

Maybe I'm alone on this point but for a pulp campaign, area knowledge skills and Contacts should suck up a lot of points. The PC's are going to have to spend their points on something and it isn't going to be on upgrading their power armor's 22d6 laser cannon or brushing up on their Starship Operations.

 

For a globe-trotting pulp campaign, most if not all of the players would be well-advised to take some combination of Linguist, Traveler, and Well-Connected. And most should take a couple of Cramming.

 

For shortcuts, Eidetic Memory, Cramming, and Speed Reading can work wonders when it comes to area knowledge skills. Just let the players devote a cramming slot to whatever area the players are going and call that good enough. Cross-country travel and international travel are both slow enough that PC's should have the time to Cram if they take the time to pack some research materials.

 

I don't mind floating Contacts. I'd insist on each player coming up with a detailed backstory for her character so a floating Contact coming into play could make sense and fit in with her known background. There's a lot of places to have met people: the army, college, parties, high school, prison, old jobs, fundraisers, relatives, your parent's friends, etc.

 

And remember, a Contact doesn't necessarily have to be in the location where the PCs are going. You can ask an existing Contact "can you set me up with someone in Paris" and get a phone call, letter of introduction, or some details of personal history which would convince the person at your destination that you're legit and they should help you. And by end of the adventure, that person your Contact introduced you to might become a new Contact himself.

 

When Contacts don't pan out, players can turn to other skills to try to get local help. An American veteran PC might go into a veterans' bar in Paris, buy a couple of rounds, and make a drunken Oratory skill roll about how he helped rescue their country from the Germans and how he's the one who needs help now. Another PC might try to seduce someone into helping.

[Lucius]

 

I hardly use the Perk at all.

 

In my opinion, if you have, say, Bureacratics or High society, you have friends in high places. If you have Streetwise, you have friends in low places. If you have Paramedics and a PS:Physician, you are a medical doctor and do NOT need to buy a "Perk" to do the job you're obviously qualified for - and you will know other doctors. If your background includes a lot of travel in the Far East and the party is going to Hong Kong, you will have old acquaintances in Hong Kong. Also old enemies, so no, I don't see a point to charging points for such connections. Also also,  your friendly connections are apt to want favors from YOU or need help with something you can help with - so again, no, I don't agree with charging points for them.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Contact: Palindromedary?

 

 

[Toxxus]

Perception roll at minus 4 to spot them on an opponent.

 

For the person buying back their normal vision with the IIF contact they should take the Real Contact limitation.  Wash regularly or make CON rolls to avoid an eye infection.  Dislodged or broken on an 8 or less whenever you're critically hit (or hit in area 3 if using hit locations).

 

Can get 1 level of striking appearance with some of the cosmetic options (cat-eyes, hypnotica, etc.).

[Brian Stanfield]

2 hours ago, Toxxus said:

Perception roll at minus 4 to spot them on an opponent.

 

For the person buying back their normal vision with the IIF contact they should take the Real Contact limitation.  Wash regularly or make CON rolls to avoid an eye infection.  Dislodged or broken on an 8 or less whenever you're critically hit (or hit in area 3 if using hit locations).

 

Can get 1 level of striking appearance with some of the cosmetic options (cat-eyes, hypnotica, etc.).

 

I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but I’m asking about the Perk: Contact (as in a person to contact). 

 

Im wondering if there’s anybody who’s actually used the Resource Pool approach on this problem? Any advice?

[Brian Stanfield]

Ok, so let me reframe this a bit: Why buy 5 contacts when it seems having 1 "floating contact" is good enough from game to game?

 

It seems punitive to make a player pay for being so well connected worldwide that he has to buy at least one contact on each continent, and probably area knowledge for each continent as well, and probably city knowledge with some of the major cities. In a heroic campaign where players are only 175 points, that takes up about 20-25 points, which is pretty significant just to make them seem like they know a lot of people. In reality (in game terms), it would make sense to give them one blanket Perk for each category: 1 Contact, 1 Area Knowledge, and 1 City Knowledge, and have them roll each game when they want to use one of the Perks. Otherwise, I'm making them pay a lot of points for something they'll almost never use. I have the "Well Connected" Perk Enhancer for a couple of my players, but then that's another 3 points to save a handful of points, so it's basically a wash, points-wise. Although it's a globetrotting campaign, I don't see them visiting more than 2 continents per game session!

 

Any advice here? I thought the Resource Pool might work, but I've never used it.

[Chris Goodwin]

I would say that if you want to start the game with Contacts, then you'd buy the Perk.  If as a player you ever need to ask the GM, "Do I know someone who...?", this definitively answers the question.  

 

But another reason to have them in the game (I'm not sure if anyone was questioning this, but I'm addressing it) is so that NPCs can buy them.  

 

If you as GM don't want to mess around with Contacts, you might think about repurposing Well Connected.  Someone who is Well Connected obviously knows people, so they're more likely to know someone in situation X, so they get a bonus to whatever you roll to decide if they know someone.  Or work up some other kind of perk that gives a character a bonus to that roll.  

[Brian Stanfield]

3 minutes ago, Chris Goodwin said:

If you as GM don't want to mess around with Contacts, you might think about repurposing Well Connected.  Someone who is Well Connected obviously knows people, so they're more likely to know someone in situation X, so they get a bonus to whatever you roll to decide if they know someone.  Or work up some other kind of perk that gives a character a bonus to that roll.  

 

I was thinking about using the well-connected perk enhancer as a “buy in” for a resource pool. That way they pay some points for the privilege without getting totally hemmed in by the individual costs. I may run with this idea for now, since I have to come up with something by Saturday and my time will be better spent solving other problems (like coming up with their first Pulp adventure?!).

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

If travel will be frequent, Contacts should be purchased with that in mind. 

Unique characters should be purchased with some excuse to be present or be useful if not present.  Professor McKinley is never more than a phone call away, so no matter where you are in the world his double-doctorate can be of assistance.  Hank "Hiking" Smith is a travelholic, so his 11- roll indicates the chance he's in the area anyways.  Merlin is a wizard, and thus unbounded by mere concepts of distance and location. 

Anyone else should be purchased "generic".  You don't know Marco the black marketeer, you just have Contact: Black Market 12-.  No matter where you go, you can (try to) find a black market. 

[Surrealone]

1 hour ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Ok, so let me reframe this a bit: Why buy 5 contacts when it seems having 1 "floating contact" is good enough from game to game?

 

It seems punitive to make a player pay for being so well connected worldwide that he has to buy at least one contact on each continent, and probably area knowledge for each continent as well, and probably city knowledge with some of the major cities. In a heroic campaign where players are only 175 points, that takes up about 20-25 points, which is pretty significant just to make them seem like they know a lot of people. In reality (in game terms), it would make sense to give them one blanket Perk for each category: 1 Contact, 1 Area Knowledge, and 1 City Knowledge, and have them roll each game when they want to use one of the Perks. Otherwise, I'm making them pay a lot of points for something they'll almost never use. I have the "Well Connected" Perk Enhancer for a couple of my players, but then that's another 3 points to save a handful of points, so it's basically a wash, points-wise. Although it's a globetrotting campaign, I don't see them visiting more than 2 continents per game session!

 

Any advice here? I thought the Resource Pool might work, but I've never used it.

Resource Points for a Resource Pool of Followers/Contacts is the way to go, since Resource Points entail the RAW for equipment, vehicles/bases, followers, and other things that change often.

 

i.e. Resource Points are the RAW mechanism for a changing set of 'floating' contacts without any hackneyed house rules being needed. 

Your original post asked, "If you don't use Resource Pools, how do you do it?" The only answer I can give you for that is, "I don't - because I use Resource Pools ... since it's intended to address exactly what you're describing."  Is there some reason you're trying to avoid Resource Pools???

[Brian Stanfield]

20 minutes ago, Surrealone said:

Is there some reason you're trying to avoid Resource Pools???

Nope, other than I've never done it before. Seems like a good time to start. Also, I don't know how to do it effectively in Hero Designer, since the Perk: Resources only gives the number of points available, but doesn't create a list nor does it counterbalance the cost of those items in the list. I'm considering creating the Resource Pool and giving it a negative adder (say 10 points), and then creating a list of Contacts for whatever points seems right. The Resource Pool will counteract 10 points of the list in terms of accounting, but there is no "official" interaction between the Pool and the List.

[Surrealone]

49 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Nope, other than I've never done it before. Seems like a good time to start. Also, I don't know how to do it effectively in Hero Designer, since the Perk: Resources only gives the number of points available, but doesn't create a list nor does it counterbalance the cost of those items in the list. I'm considering creating the Resource Pool and giving it a negative adder (say 10 points), and then creating a list of Contacts for whatever points seems right. The Resource Pool will counteract 10 points of the list in terms of accounting, but there is no "official" interaction between the Pool and the List.

In Hero Designer, simply add Resource Points to the sheet.  Once done, drill into what you just added and change the Type from its default (Equipment points) to Follower/Contact Points.  Then, if the GM (presumably you) is giving everyone a starting number of contact points (much like Everyman skills … because everyone knows someone, right?), set the Starting Points to whatever the campaign starting value is.  

 

That's all there is to it. From there, simply increment the 'Levels' of Resource points (in 2pt increments since the cost of Follower/Contact Resource Points is 1CP per 2 RP) to reflect how many Resource Points have been purchased.  There are no lists to manage; nothing needs to be predefined like traditional contacts -- unless, you the GM, want to try to apply the Kit and Armory concepts of Equipment-based resource pools to Follower-contact-based resource pools.

A Follower/Contact Resource Pool helps respresent a character's ability to say, "I know a guy" … and reach out.  Thus, if you had 10 CP tied up in Resource Points for Followers/Contacts, that's a 20pt pool … and your character who is an honourably discharged U.S. Army Captain might pick up the phone and dial a special forces buddy (Very Good Relationship, 14-) that would use 7 pts from the pool.  Next in the same scenario he might dial a General under which s/he served when they were both younger and lower rank (Good relationship, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has access to major institutions, Organization Contact, 12-) that would use 11pts from the pool.  That's 18 of the 20pt pool used for the scenario, so far. 

 

Note:
It generally helps to give some sort of special effect/theme to the pool … so, in this case, it'd likely be a Military Contacts Resource Pool … and I would name it as such on the sheet -- as that's sort of what justifies the pool I used in my examples, above.  It also works for famous people, rich people, and the like -- with appropriately scoped Contact pools, of course.

The complete rundown on Resource Points and how to manage/use them can be found in APG1 p191.  If you the GM want to pre-define Contacts for pool use, that's certainly up to you … and if there's no unifying theme (a la Military contacts) for the pool, it may be prudent/necessary.  However, with a solid theme for the pool, it may make sense to avoid such definitions.  Totally up to you.  I've seen both ways done, and the less structured, theme-based approach tends to work best (IMHO) when representing a changing cast of contacts.

Example Contact/Follower pool themes I've either used or seen:

• Military Contacts Pool
• Police / Law Enforcement Contacts Pool
• Masonic Contacts Pool
• Legal Contacts Pool
• Press Contacts Pool
• Mutant Contacts Pool (in a game where mutants were not the norm)

You get the idea.  Remember, villains might have one too (Terrorist Network Contacts Pool?)...

 

Surreal

 

P.S. Well-Connected is highly complimentary to a Contact pool -- especially if the character is prone to using a number of cheaper contacts in a scenario (as opposed to using a big, spendy, organizational contact in the scenario) … as it effectively shaves 1pt off the Contact cost for each Contact manifested via the Pool (as well as any static Contacts the character may have).  Note, however, that Well-Connected must (per RAW) be purchased outside the Resource Pool. 

[Brian Stanfield]

I like the idea of the themed pool: it makes good sense. So for your military contacts example, your player used 18 of the 20 points. Do you allow the player to add a different contact to replace one of those, and then rotate the old one into an "armory" of contacts? 

 

Here's what I'm looking at: I have an international businessman, the son of the CEO of a large munitions company, and he has a lot of contacts, as well as Area/City Knowledges. He's probably got 30 points tied into these so that he has just the right contact when they need to go flying off to Egypt to chase a stolen mummy (or did it come to life on its own . . . ?), or whatever: fill in the blank for several trips in maybe one or two game sessions. 

 

It makes sense to have a Contacts Resource Pool of, say, 20 points. But I'd like to have these on his character sheet in some form because all my players are learning the game for the first time, and they won't know how to make this stuff up on the fly yet. But if I stick him with a bunch of 2 point contacts (he has Well Connected), that's a suck on his Character points, so he can't be good at much else. Should I not define them at all? Should I define them generically (Asian Contact)? Have one expensive contact and one cheaper contact that can change each game session (the "kit" and "armory" concept)?

 

I'd like to be able to do this for his 10 Area Knowledges (he is also a Traveler). And I have another character who is a Linguist with 10 languages. Almost every character has some sort of similar Character Point sink. I could:

• Just give them all 20 more points for character creation, and allow them to shuffle around their items as needs change? Simple solution. Instead of 175 point starting characters, I'll give them 200 point starting characters with a lot more AKs, Languages, Contacts, etc.
• Or perhaps just make them pay for a couple (say one language, fully fluent, with literacy for more points, and one at the conversational level) and then shuffle them each game session? This saves a lot of Character Points, and doesn't require a long list.
• I could just give them each a Resource Pool (or a Language Pool, or a Knowledge Pool) and let them decide what they want each game session. This easily solves the problem, but I want to print out their characters each game session with the list of skills/perks already on them so that it's easier for them to learn the game (remember, they're all first-time HERO players).

I don't know which option to choose right now. So far I have long lists and lots of points sunk into their pools just so I have character sheets with all their items on them. But 10 area knowledges that will rarely be used seems punitive. More points makes sense, but it requires long lists of things that still won't get used all that much. The Resource Pool seems like the best idea, but it might not be the easiest solution for new players. I'm still not sure which way to go, and I have to hurry up and decide before Saturday!

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

Why do the AKs need to be individual countries?  Is there some reason that AK: Europe wouldn't work for your game? 

Likewise, why do you feel tied to buying individual languages instead of declaring language "sets" to be purchasable at individual language prices? 

[Surrealone]

57 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

I like the idea of the themed pool: it makes good sense. So for your military contacts example, your player used 18 of the 20 points. Do you allow the player to add a different contact to replace one of those, and then rotate the old one into an "armory" of contacts?  

Remember, the idea is to be able to capture the "I know a guy/gal" concept … so from a Resource Point/Pool perspective, every contact is a floating one from scenario to scenario.  Also, from a storyline perspective, the specifics of Contact X who got called on mission Y just aren't all that important (long-term) unless the contact is (or might in the future become) a recurring one.  We keep track of recurring contacts … but they're ultimately akin to a Power in a Variable Power Pool -- i.e. just a pre-arranged configuration that serves a specific purpose/function and has a specific cost/value.  

 

 

57 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Here's what I'm looking at: I have an international businessman, the son of the CEO of a large munitions company, and he has a lot of contacts, as well as Area/City Knowledges. He's probably got 30 points tied into these so that he has just the right contact when they need to go flying off to Egypt to chase a stolen mummy (or did it come to life on its own . . . ?), or whatever: fill in the blank for several trips in maybe one or two game sessions. 

 

It makes sense to have a Contacts Resource Pool of, say, 20 points. But I'd like to have these on his character sheet in some form because all my players are learning the game for the first time, and they won't know how to make this stuff up on the fly yet. But if I stick him with a bunch of 2 point contacts (he has Well Connected), that's a suck on his Character points, so he can't be good at much else. Should I not define them at all? Should I define them generically (Asian Contact)? Have one expensive contact and one cheaper contact that can change each game session (the "kit" and "armory" concept)? 

Easy enough.  Build the Resource Pool for Followers/Contacts ("Gun Runner Contacts" ??), give the character Well-Connected since you see him being exactly that, and then pre-design some Contacts.  Doing so will cause them to be listed out in a numbered list beneath Well-Connected. When you name each, put the real cost in parens, brackets, braces, or some other indicator (so that you will know how many real points it is … after adjustment by Well-Connected … for pool use ... just by looking at the name)… and then as a final step, add a Custom Adder to each Contact whose value is negative that of the Contact's active cost (i.e. if active cost of the Contact is 5, the Custom Adder is -5); doing so will result in the Contacts now costing 0 CP on the character sheet ... while leaving you with pre-built contacts that are listed out with costs readily usable alongside a pool.

 

Since the entire point of such a pool is to avoid limiting the character to just a few contacts … in order to represent a rolodex (or head) full of them without the character spending every CP s/he has on contacts, I wouldn't limit the character to only the pre-built items. Rather, I would strongly encourage the player to come up with new contacts that make sense for the scope of the pool.  If you're worried about being taken by surprise, then have the player run new ideas past you outside of game time such that you have to pre-approve them.  However, if you're the sort of GM who can take a NPC concept and run with on the fly (give it a name, role play it, etc.) as well as make a solid ruling on the spot, you might find it more fun to just roll with new contacts as they come at you.

 

Your international son of a gun runner probably warrants a Miscellaneous Resource Point pool, too -- to obtain IDs, passports, diplomatic immunity, and all the other things one needs (which change from country to country and shipment to shipment) to move arms under the radar.  Just a thought.

 

57 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

I'd like to be able to do this for his 10 Area Knowledges (he is also a Traveler). And I have another character who is a Linguist with 10 languages. Almost every character has some sort of similar Character Point sink. I could:

• Just give them all 20 more points for character creation, and allow them to shuffle around their items as needs change? Simple solution. Instead of 175 point starting characters, I'll give them 200 point starting characters with a lot more AKs, Languages, Contacts, etc.

Or perhaps just make them pay for a couple (say one language, fully fluent, with literacy for more points, and one at the conversational level) and then shuffle them each game session? This saves a lot of Character Points, and doesn't require a long list. I could just give them each a Resource Pool (or a Language Pool, or a Knowledge Pool) and let them decide what they want each game session. This easily solves the problem, but I want to print out their characters each game session with the list of skills/perks already on them so that it's easier for them to learn the game (remember, they're all first-time HERO players).

I don't know which option to choose right now. So far I have long lists and lots of points sunk into their pools just so I have character sheets with all their items on them. But 10 area knowledges that will rarely be used seems punitive. More points makes sense, but it requires long lists of things that still won't get used all that much. The Resource Pool seems like the best idea, but it might not be the easiest solution for new players. I'm still not sure which way to go, and I have to hurry up and decide before Saturday! 

 

To my knowledge there isn't a knowledge-centric Resource Pool -- which makes sense, since Knowledge entails what one knows/understands, not what one has at one's fingertips (like guns, vehicles, bases, contacts, etc.).  Thus, unless you cobble something custom together for the AK's and languages, there's going to have to be some serious point expenditures, there.  If you truly see this character as knowing a crap-ton of languages, Universal Translator limited to only modern communication forms used by humans …. which requires a successful INT roll (whose result determines how well he does or doesn't understand or convey something)… might address your language issue.  It should add some comedy, too, I'd think, when a roll is missed and the character translates "meatballs" into "donkey balls" in some backwater language no one else knows.

As for AK's -- perhaps you have one big one ("The World") with a very high skill roll to which you, the GM, must always apply penalties.  (Because the AK is very, very broad, if the character wanted to know something specific/granular about a backwater place no one's ever heard of, you'd assess a big penalty … and have the character make (or miss) the modified roll to see what s/he does or doesn't know about an area. If the character knows some places better than others, then perhaps you break it down by regions and give the character several such AK's with big numbers -- that you again modify based on granularity of info to which the roll pertains?  (I could see a character knowing North America, Central America, and South America -- but having little knowledge of Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa, Australia, or Antactica … if they were into running coke.  But if they ran opium, well, that's probably Asia, the Middle East, and North America.  Since dad dealt Arms, I could see North America, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.  You get the idea.)

 

[Duke Bushido]

Brian:

 

I can't tell you how to do it 6e style, but in the past I have allowed characters to buy "contact network" - a home-brew perk (costing is equal to 3 Contacts) so long as 1) it fit their background/conception and they bought one other complimentary perk such as world traveller--which maybe another home-brew; I'll have to check when I get home-- or "law enforcement" or something to further justify or define the network. 

[Brian Stanfield]

41 minutes ago, Surrealone said:

To my knowledge there isn't a knowledge-centric Resource Pool

 

This is kind of the crux of my dilemma. Why should contacts be the only resource? I get the equipment pool as a cap on how much someone can carry and use from game to game, and the vehicles/bases pool as well. But a contact pool is based on one's experience, much like other Skills but not exactly the same. I get why it has its own pool. The whole idea of a Resource Pool was, at least in part, to defray the cost of rarely used items. It seems to me like Languages and Knowledge Skills exhibit the same problem, or perhaps even moreso since Contacts are quite useful, while an Area Knowledge of Africa is kinda not as useful (at least potentially). Let's just say they're all equivalent. There is the Perk: Well Connected. There is also the Linguist Skill Enhancer, and the Traveler Skill Enhancer that function identically to Well Connected. So why shouldn't they get their own Resource Pools?

 

Let's say the Miscellaneous Pool fits the bill here. Create a list, call it Linguist, or Traveler, and set it up just like you describe here:

41 minutes ago, Surrealone said:

Easy enough.  Build the Resource Pool for Followers/Contacts ("Gun Runner Contacts" ??), give the character Well-Connected since you see him being exactly that, and then pre-design some Contacts.  Doing so will cause them to be listed out in a numbered list beneath Well-Connected. When you name each, put the real cost in parens, brackets, braces, or some other indicator (so that you will know how many real points it is … after adjustment by Well-Connected … for pool use ... just by looking at the name)… and then as a final step, add a Custom Adder to each Contact whose value is negative that of the Contact's active cost (i.e. if active cost of the Contact is 5, the Custom Adder is -5); doing so will result in the Contacts now costing 0 CP on the character sheet ... while leaving you with pre-built contacts that are listed out with costs readily usable alongside a pool.

 

So potentially each Skill Enhancer or Perk Enhancer provides it's own Resource Pool. You spend 3 points for the privilege, and then get a capped amount of the resource (Contacts, Languages, AKs, or whatever). So my industrialist could be both Well Connected and a Traveler, and have both the Perk and the Skill Enhancer for 3 points each, and then get two 10-point pools (or whatever) that can be modified each game.

 

This is starting to make me crazy, because what do I do with all of the skills that barely get used. The rules suggest not making a person pay for little-used but well justified skills (being a world-renowned chess player has little game use, but is an interesting character concept), so why make my aviatrix pay for a mechanic skill she'll almost never use? Or knowing how to fly every kind of plane there is? I could give her an "Aviatrix Pool" and give her a break on some core skills, but that's starting to get a little bit too friendly on the costs of skills for the players. Maybe it makes more sense to give them all fixed costs, more character points as compensation, and then allow some flexibility on how the skills and perks get used from game to game. Not every character has a list of Skills or Perks, so not every character need the point break that the Resource Pools give. So if I give everyone 25 more points to work with, that puts those characters way ahead in terms of skill levels, etc. that the other well-rounded characters won't get. This is all my own damned fault, of course, since I'm the one making the characters, but I'd like to figure it out before I tell them what's going on.

 

Right now I'm in quick sand trying to get my characters balanced and ready for Saturday. I know if I just relax I won't get sucked under, but . . . . I guess for now I just need to hand them something for Saturday, and then plan on just reworking the characters anyway based on what they want. By then I'll have made a decision. 

[Brian Stanfield]

29 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Brian:

 

I can't tell you how to do it 6e style, but in the past I have allowed characters to buy "contact network" - a home-brew perk (costing is equal to 3 Contacts) so long as 1) it fit their background/conception and they bought one other complimentary perk such as world traveller--which maybe another home-brew; I'll have to check when I get home-- or "law enforcement" or something to further justify or define the network. 

Yup, there is a Traveler Skill Enhancer that is a 3 point expenditure, reducing each Area Knowledge by 1.

[dsatow]

I generally treat contacts as player accessible abilities.  In other word, you can have "contacts" without paying points for them, but they may not respond to you if they are busy or etc.  It's more a role playing exercise/plot contingent contact and slightly beneficial.  If you want someone who will drop what they are doing to try and help you out when you need it, then the contact perk is for you.  

 

Example of the difference (YMMV): 

You know a lawyer.  He's good (18- PS: Lawyer) but he's not bought as a contact.  You get framed for the murder of some punk.  You call him for help but get his secretary.  She says she'll relay the message to him.  A day goes by and this kid fresh out of college come by your prison cell.  Kid lawyer has been referred to you by the big shot lawyer.  When you get out of jail on bond a day later, the press tries to crucify you outside the court house.

 

You know a lawyer.  He's good (18- PS: Lawyer) and he's bought as a contact.  You get framed for the murder of some punk.  You call him for help and get the roll.  His secretary puts you through to the big shot lawyer even though he's in a meeting.  15 minutes later, you are out of jail on bond.  The lawyer has gotten a gag order on the press in place and is already talking about how to defeat the accusations.

 

You know a lawyer.  He's good (18- PS: Lawyer) and he's bought as a contact.  You get framed for the murder of some punk.  You call him for help but you failed the roll.  His secretary gives him a message.  A hour later, a junior partner from the firm gets you out of jail on bond.  The press already has wind of your problem but he's arranged for a press release to give your side of the issue.

[Surrealone]

49 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Let's say the Miscellaneous Pool fits the bill here. Create a list, call it Linguist, or Traveler, and set it up just like you describe here:

 

So potentially each Skill Enhancer or Perk Enhancer provides it's own Resource Pool. You spend 3 points for the privilege, and then get a capped amount of the resource (Contacts, Languages, AKs, or whatever). So my industrialist could be both Well Connected and a Traveler, and have both the Perk and the Skill Enhancer for 3 points each, and then get two 10-point pools (or whatever) that can be modified each game.

 

This is starting to make me crazy, because what do I do with all of the skills that barely get used. The rules suggest not making a person pay for little-used but well justified skills (being a world-renowned chess player has little game use, but is an interesting character concept), so why make my aviatrix pay for a mechanic skill she'll almost never use? Or knowing how to fly every kind of plane there is? I could give her an "Aviatrix Pool" and give her a break on some core skills, but that's starting to get a little bit too friendly on the costs of skills for the players. Maybe it makes more sense to give them all fixed costs, more character points as compensation, and then allow some flexibility on how the skills and perks get used from game to game. Not every character has a list of Skills or Perks, so not every character need the point break that the Resource Pools give. So if I give everyone 25 more points to work with, that puts those characters way ahead in terms of skill levels, etc. that the other well-rounded characters won't get. This is all my own damned fault, of course, since I'm the one making the characters, but I'd like to figure it out before I tell them what's going on.

 

Right now I'm in quick sand trying to get my characters balanced and ready for Saturday. I know if I just relax I won't get sucked under, but . . . . I guess for now I just need to hand them something for Saturday, and then plan on just reworking the characters anyway based on what they want. By then I'll have made a decision. 

I personally feel there's a vast world of difference between a pool of physical or social resources a character can access …. and a pool of things a character KNOWS.  Key to this is that foci get taken, lost or broken; contacts don't always respond; followers aren't always around; vehicles break down or are destroyed; bases get sabotaged or must be abandoned; other misc perks (like driver's license, concealed carry license, etc.) change depending on locality; etc.  … whereas what one knows and can (or can't) recall (such as Area Knowledge, Science Skills, Professional Skills, etc.) … is what one knows and can (or can't) recall.

For this reason, I do not see any Skills of any kind making sense within Resource Pools.  Certainly if you want to house rule it that way, you can, but skills are Skills, i.e. they're not Resources as Resources are explained in APG1.  Both I and Gnome have already provided you with the conventional way GM's handle large numbers of AK's -- which is to say: they lump them into broad categories, provide a roll level that makes sense for the character when appropriate modifiers are in play, and then work from there.  That's what I think you should do with the AK's -- figure out which regions the character would have knowledge of … and to what extent … and buy the relevant AK's appropriately.

As for languages, the Universal Translator path is a solid one if the character will have perfect, colloquial fluency with literacy in 4 or more languages.  James Bond is fluent in French, Italian, German and Russian, has a solid grasp of Greek, Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese … and has a degree in Oriental languages.  Think he paid for a bunch of languages?  Nope, he's got Universal Translator with some limitations, I bet … and likely has Oriental Languages bought as a Science Skill as a cherry on top.
 

 

[Duke Bushido]

How about this, Brian:

 

I know this sounds awful, but one of the biggest strengths of HERO is so often overlooked or flat-out ignored in the quest to get more and more ticky and finicky with the minutiae of the system that the biggest strength often turns into weakness:

 

HERO, from day one, has been extremely open about skills, encouraging you to build them yourself (professional Skill; Knowledge Skill; Area Knowledge, etc) that folks tend to forget that _you_ decide what that _means_.  When you buy "Pilot" or "Combat Pilot," there (unless this was changed in 5 or 6; I don't really remember) was no mandate to specify the make and model and weather restrictions that you were able to fly.  You can have "Pilot: B-52" or "Pilot: multi-engine plane" or "Pilot: fixed-wing aircraft" or just "Pilot: If it flies, I can drive it."

 

And it costs the same.  The exact _same_.

 

you want to be a mechanic?  Fine.  You want "Mechanic: Caterpillar 3208" or "Mechanic: Diesel engines" or "mechanic: internal combustion engines" or "Mechanic: if I have the right wrench, I can fix it!"?

 

How often do you want players using their skills?  How bogged down with points costs do you want these skills to be?  It's up to you.  You can even do something wiggy:  "Mechanic: Aircraft."  Yep. If it flies, you know how to fix it, regardless of what it is.    Worried about going too wide when some people _do_ want to specialize?  Fine: charge two points more for "broad" skills and apply a campaign max (say 13- or 14-) for "broad" categories, with no upper limit on "specialist" skills.  The skill is still super-useful, and best of all, the characters will have more opportunity to use the skills they paid for: you won't have to wait for someone with "Engineering: 200' Zepplin" to slap some sticky tape on a tear in the gas bag.  

 

Correct me if I'm reading you completely wrong (and if so, I apologize and will but out and go back to sleep), but you are concerned about characters being weighed down with Skill costs to make their concepts.  You're the GM.  You're the one helping them decide what skill they need to do what.  The ugly side of that is that _you're_ the one weighing them down.     If you decide that your aviatrix needs more than "Pilot: single-engine plane" or "Pilot: prop plane" or "Pilot: fixed-wing plane" or even just "Pilot" to fly almost any plane built, then _you_ are the one weighing her down.  If she needs more than "Navigation" to use interments or stars or dead-reckoning equally-well, well again: that's on you.  If "mechanic" doesn't apply to any sort of engine or airplane part, again---

 

well, you see where I'm going here.

 

Take a look at it from that angle, and re-consider how you might _define_ the skills before wondering how to pay for eighty of them.

 

 

[Brian Stanfield]

2 hours ago, Surrealone said:

I personally feel there's a vast world of difference between a pool of physical or social resources a character can access …. and a pool of things a character KNOWS.  Key to this is that foci get taken, lost or broken; contacts don't always respond; followers aren't always around; vehicles break down or are destroyed; bases get sabotaged or must be abandoned; other misc perks (like driver's license, concealed carry license, etc.) change depending on locality; etc.  … whereas what one knows and can (or can't) recall (such as Area Knowledge, Science Skills, Professional Skills, etc.) … is what one knows and can (or can't) recall.

True enough. I totally get it, but I’m thinking in accounting terms here: Contacts will get used as much, or probably more, than Area Knowledges, and though there are Enhancers available for both, why should a pool of contacts be cheaper than a pool of AKs that come into play about as much, or less? Just pondering here. When I look at travel familiarity, or weapon familiarity in Hero Designer, it’s easy to drop double digit points just to say that my character can drive anything, or shoot anything. The weapon familiarity is probably worth the points, since combat always happens. I’m not sure travel familiarity is. In all these cases, though, the skills, especially knowledge skills, aren’t always reliable, just like any perk or equipment. In game terms, I may “know” how to drive a car, but I may still fail on an 11- roll. I may “know” the city in which I’m driving that car, but I may forget which street gets me to the firefight quickest, and fail on an 11- roll. I may “know” the guy who can fix my car when it breaks down, but he may not be able to get to it this week on an 11- roll. They all affect my ability to get to where I’m going equally, so I’m less inclined to say knowledge skills are entirely different than perks or equipment. 

 

13 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Correct me if I'm reading you completely wrong (and if so, I apologize and will but out and go back to sleep), but you are concerned about characters being weighed down with Skill costs to make their concepts.  You're the GM.  You're the one helping them decide what skill they need to do what.  The ugly side of that is that _you're_ the one weighing them down.     If you decide that your aviatrix needs more than "Pilot: single-engine plane" or "Pilot: prop plane" or "Pilot: fixed-wing plane" or even just "Pilot" to fly almost any plane built, then _you_ are the one weighing her down.  If she needs more than "Navigation" to use interments or stars or dead-reckoning equally-well, well again: that's on you.  If "mechanic" doesn't apply to any sort of engine or airplane part, again---

You both bring up a good point: I can pretty much do whatever I want since I’m the GM. I should stop worrying about it and move on. I’m letting Hero Designer dictate this a little too much by trying to come up with an exact accounting of points. 

 

I like the the universal translator idea! I may use that! Or I may stick with the Miscellaneous Resource Pool. I’m not sure yet, but I appreciate the feedback!

[Brian Stanfield]

By the way, I’m out of likes for the day, so I can’t pat you all on the back for your help. So here’s one universal like for all y’all: