How do you run Contacts?

[drunkonduty]

Brian, you mentioned other skills above, and were worried about charging for rarely used skills.

 

My advice:  don't worry. Your judgement on these matters is just fine. You clearly understand the issues. All you have to do is think about what's going to happen in your campaign.

 

Some skills are genuinely rarely of use to dealing with the plot. You (or someone) mentioned chess above. Unless chess is going to come up in game and you need to know just how good a player a character is, it doesn't need defining. Cool. Someone is a chess grandmaster. It matters not at all. Player paid no points, 99% of the time it makes no difference; it doesn't even much impress the average NPC. (PC walks up to attractive NPC at the bar with intent of seducing them in order to learn where the Master Villain's lair is. PC: "Hey baebe I'm a chess grandmaster." NPC: "Ugh," turns and leaves.) Paid nothing, gets nothing.

 

Other skills will come up often enough to both need defining and justify their cost. In my pulp game (I don't have a pulp game, I'm just day-dreaming.) Mechanics will be of use every time there's an old car that needs to be fixed in a hurry, or the plane needs to be repaired after a crash landing, or the villain's mechanical servant needs to be disabled. BUT if these are not things that will be an issue in your game, mechanics ain't worth points.

 

Anything that is part of the core concept of a character IS going to be used regularly. So if a PC wants to be the globe trotter who knows everyone, everywhere you'll need to model it. Your resource pool plan will work just fine for contacts and AK.

 

Other characters will only develop these contacts as play happens.

 

Last minute edit: I just read what Duke Bushido said about YOU decide what to pay points for. That.

 

[Duke Bushido]

3 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

I’m letting Hero Designer dictate this a little too much

 

It's funny....

 

I've never really put it together before, but 4e seems to be about the time the hair-splitting started getting more and more severe....

 

It was also the introduction of character-building software.....

 

 

I have to wonder if there's a connection-- if the spread of the software and the growing reliance on it may have influenced how we began to think about building characters, rather than simply being a tool to help us get our ideas down.

[drunkonduty]

1 minute ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

It's funny....

 

I've never really put it together before, but 4e seems to be about the time the hair-splitting started getting more and more severe....

 

It was also the introduction of character-building software.....

 

 

I have to wonder if there's a connection-- if the spread of the software and the growing reliance on it may have influenced how we began to think about building characters, rather than simply being a tool to help us get our ideas down.

 

Good point. I think you're right.

 

[Duke Bushido]

I forgot to include in that earlier post (sorry: 14 hour day today, and the first truly "summer" day, sun-wise.  I'm baked, cooked, dehydrated, and ready for bed):

 

It's easy enough to rationalize a wide-spread skill rather than a bunch of individual skills.  Consider that we don't charge for everyman skills.  Consider also that many skills are applicable to areas tangential but still related to a general field.  For example, Mechanic: internal combustion engine.   There are universal aspects of this, and a good mechanic knows them.  If you don't like the idea of one wrench bender being able to work on cars, boats, planes, and tractors, well-- it's your game.  If you'd rather, have them pick one field of expertise, and assign a penalty (-1 or -2) to "related, but not in your speciality" things.

 

I wouldn't assign penalties for a pulp game, personally (I really like the tradition of the grand adventurers, masters of their crafts, etc), but if it helps you rationalize using broader skill definitions, then go for it.  Think of them as "every mechanic" or "every pilot" or "every spy" or "every scientist" skills: you don't have to charge for something related to their primary focus.  Honestly, you don't even have to penalize them for it, depending on the flavor you're going for, but if it helps you feel better about it, or if you'd prefer that "master of gerry-rigging" feel, then by all means, go for it.

 

 

[Lucius]

 

From a well travelled player character in My Turakian Age Game:

 

List: I've been Everywhere, Man

 

I've been here, or Heard of it:  (Total: 36 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Detect Geography and Surroundings 13- (Mental Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Penetrative (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), -1 1/4), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Requires A Roll (14- roll; Jammed; -1/4) (Real Cost: 8 )    b>plus</b> Access (Hidden (-3 to Skill Rolls)) (6 Active Points); Requires A Roll (11- roll; Jammed, Must be made each Phase/use; -1 1/2) (Real Cost: 2)

Always knows his way around

 

Fit in anywhere:  (Total: 31 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Shape Shift  (Sight and Hearing Groups, limited group of shapes), Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (31 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; Only to look like he "belongs" there; -1), Affects Body Only (-1/2), Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 20 Active Points modifier: Acting or Disguise; Can choose which of two rolls to make from use to use, Jammed; -1/2), Limited Power Won't work if there is just no plausible way he could belong there! (-1/2) (Real Cost: 9)

Blends in

 

At home anywhere:  (Total: 15 Active Cost, 3 Real Cost) Cramming  (5 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Languages, or Cultural or City or Area Knowledge (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 5 Active Points modifier; Conversation; -1), Limited Power Learns by immersion, not from books or instructors (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> Cramming  (5 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Languages, or Cultural or City or Area Knowledge (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 5 Active Points modifier; Conversation; -1), Limited Power Learns by immersion, not from books or instructors (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1) <b>plus</b> Cramming  (5 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Languages, or Cultural or City or Area Knowledge (-1), Requires A Roll (Skill roll, -1 per 5 Active Points modifier; Conversation; -1), Limited Power Learns by immersion, not from books or instructors (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1)

Cramming, the "Floating Skill."

 

Gift of Tongues:  (Total: 25 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Universal Translator 18- (25 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says there's more where that came from

 

 

[Spence]

10 hours ago, Brian Stanfield said:

Ok, so let me reframe this a bit: Why buy 5 contacts when it seems having 1 "floating contact" is good enough from game to game?

  

 

15 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

I hardly use the Perk at all.

In my opinion, if you have, say, Bureacratics or High society, you have friends in high places. If you have Streetwise, you have friends in low places. If you have Paramedics and a PS:Physician, you are a medical doctor and do NOT need to buy a "Perk" to do the job you're obviously qualified for - and you will know other doctors. If your background includes a lot of travel in the Far East and the party is going to Hong Kong, you will have old acquaintances in Hong Kong. Also old enemies, so no, I don't see a point to charging points for such connections.

Also also,  your friendly connections are apt to want favors from YOU or need help with something you can help with - so again, no, I don't agree with charging points for them.

 

 

 

For myself what I don't use "floating contacts".  They are pretty much what Lucius describes. 

 

I do use Contacts, but they are solid and reliable.  The roll probability is not about whether they will help, but rather if they can.

 

It is kind of like the difference between a friend and an acquaintance.  Most people are surrounded by acquaintances that they incorrectly think of as friends and don't realize that you only meet a handful of actual friends in a lifetime. 

 

The people that you come across using the Lucius method, via skills are like acquaintances.  They may or may not give you help, but mostly they will only do something if it is easy, without repercussions and gains them something.  In other words, if there is no downside and they get something out of it, they might help.

 

A Contact on the other hand is someone that will risk severe penalties to help you, even to the extent imprisonment or threat of death.  A Contact is a person solidly in your corner.   The roll isn't if they will come through, but whether they can come through.  A failed roll indicates that the aid you asked for isn't available for some other reason.

 

That is why Contacts cost points. 

 

Of course there are many other ways to interpret Contacts, this is just mine. 

 

[Brian Stanfield]

On 4/29/2019 at 6:18 AM, Lucius said:

 

In my opinion, if you have, say, Bureacratics or High society, you have friends in high places. If you have Streetwise, you have friends in low places. If you have Paramedics and a PS:Physician, you are a medical doctor and do NOT need to buy a "Perk" to do the job you're obviously qualified for - and you will know other doctors. If your background includes a lot of travel in the Far East and the party is going to Hong Kong, you will have old acquaintances in Hong Kong. Also old enemies, so no, I don't see a point to charging points for such connections. Also also,  your friendly connections are apt to want favors from YOU or need help with something you can help with - so again, no, I don't agree with charging points for them.

 

9 hours ago, Spence said:

The people that you come across using the Lucius method, via skills are like acquaintances.  They may or may not give you help, but mostly they will only do something if it is easy, without repercussions and gains them something.  In other words, if there is no downside and they get something out of it, they might help.

 

A Contact on the other hand is someone that will risk severe penalties to help you, even to the extent imprisonment or threat of death.  A Contact is a person solidly in your corner.   The roll isn't if they will come through, but whether they can come through.  A failed roll indicates that the aid you asked for isn't available for some other reason.

 

Good distinction. So Lucius (or Spence), do you require a roll of some sort if my High Society character is looking for an acquaintance for assistance? Do I roll against High Society rather than a Contact, or do you just not require a roll at all?

[Spence]

14 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

 

Good distinction. So Lucius (or Spence), do you require a roll of some sort if my High Society character is looking for an acquaintance for assistance? Do I roll against High Society rather than a Contact, or do you just not require a roll at all?

For me yes.  The High Society roll will cover an incidental meeting with someone you have just met or only know casually.  Locating the slightly gullable bell hop at the Grand Empire Hotel.

 

But a Contact isn't a chance meeting with a "Bob the Bell Hop".  It is meeting with Robert "Deadeye" McCabe the you spent 3 years with back to back in the trenches and you've lost count of how many times you saved each others life. 

 

I try to flesh out Contacts into full fledged NPCs that will be reused.  A Contact is not made willy nilly on the fly, it is a detailed build.

[Surrealone]

56 minutes ago, Spence said:

But a Contact isn't a chance meeting with a "Bob the Bell Hop".  It is meeting with Robert "Deadeye" McCabe the you spent 3 years with back to back in the trenches and you've lost count of how many times you saved each others life. 

 

I try to flesh out Contacts into full fledged NPCs that will be reused.  A Contact is not made willy nilly on the fly, it is a detailed build.

That works well enough right up to the point where Captain Contacts with his shining 33 PRE whips out his electronic rolodex of 15,234 contacts because he "knows a guy".  Since that's a very viable ability/concept, would you, the GM, shoot it down?  If not, would you, the GM, flesh out all 15,234 of them in advance?  Or would you, the GM, think a pool is in order … with throw-aways making logical sense?

While Captain Contacts is an extreme/absurd example, it's this sort of thinking (to a lesser extent, of course) that makes Resource Points a thing.  i.e. Some contacts -should- be willy-nilly because they just aren't important outside of being one-time plot movers.

[Toxxus]

Mentally, Captain Contacts takes me in a completely different direction.

 

Imagine a HERO with a transparent Captain America style shield (contact) on one arm and a nano-tech lens launcher on his other arm.

 

Fun powers like:

1-  AoE severe transform - glasses / goggles / eye wear into contact lenses - which then fall to the ground and are near invisible unmitigated visual difficulty on the previous eye wear wearers.

2-  Dusty Lens - Nano-tech contact drones fly at an opponent and attach sandy, gritty lenses to their eyes inflicting NND stun + flash.

3-  Opague Lens - Nano-tech contact drones fly at an opponent and attach inflicting a single-target darkness field on their eyeballs.

4-  Frisbee sized hard lenses shoot forcefully from the launcher inflicting armor piercing normal damage that can bounce to additional targets.

5-  He can fly standing on his anti-grav lenses.

etc.

 

Frustrated by years of overpriced, ill-fitting glasses and a host of bullies a high-tech villain was born.  Captain Contacts!  His goal - to destroy all diabolical purveyors of eye wear!

[Brian Stanfield]

You just won’t lay off the eye wear, huh?  

I guess you need a villain, the Cataract Kid. 

[Killer Shrike]

I use resource pools, and I give players a fair amount of utility, appropriate to their investment. Benefits gained via contacts should serve the story IMO, not derail it, so I act accordingly.

[Toxxus]

1 hour ago, Brian Stanfield said:

You just won’t lay off the eye wear, huh?  

I guess you need a villain, the Cataract Kid. 

 

Captain Contact and the Cataract Kid (much like a villainous Batman & Robin) would be opposed by...

1-  Lasik and his deadly array of cost-effective eyeball lasers.

2-  Lady Crystal Lens and her perfect, but costly vision!

 

Ok, this pun HAS been beaten to death. 

[megaplayboy]

I thought this was going to be a discussion about contacts from a roleplaying perspective.  A contact can be an old friend, a colleague, an employer, an old lover, a rival or even a sometime enemy.  IMHO if a PC is asking a big favor of a contact, that should be roleplayed out.  Favors are another interesting concept which can tie in old storylines(since the GM can award favors based upon what the PCs did on an adventure).  

[Amorkca]

2 hours ago, Toxxus said:

 

Captain Contact and the Cataract Kid (much like a villainous Batman & Robin) would be opposed by...

1-  Lasik and his deadly array of cost-effective eyeball lasers.

2-  Lady Crystal Lens and her perfect, but costly vision!

 

Ok, this pun HAS been beaten to death. 

 

I think you need to take this over to the Create a Villain Team thread...

[drunkonduty]

5 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

I thought this was going to be a discussion about contacts from a roleplaying perspective.  A contact can be an old friend, a colleague, an employer, an old lover, a rival or even a sometime enemy.  IMHO if a PC is asking a big favor of a contact, that should be roleplayed out.  Favors are another interesting concept which can tie in old storylines(since the GM can award favors based upon what the PCs did on an adventure).  

 

Totally agree with this. Contacts are a great opportunity to have a good role play situation. All types of situations.

 

I DON'T think that all contacts are necessarily great friends of the PC. They can be, if the player pays for "Good Relationship" (and maybe a high level of availability. Better friends make more time to help.) But it's not a necessary condition for contacts. Some contacts are only there for the money. Some feel an obligation but may not actually like the PC. Although this might be better for one-off favours it could still be a contact. Some are casual acquaintances who are happy to help in a small way, if it doesn't put them out or if there's a good reason to help. Some could be good friends who will help if they can, but be unwilling to take risks to do so. "It's more than my job's worth, buddy. But see you at the bar Friday."  The rules also allow for contacts who have been blackmailed, so they only help out because the PC will cause them trouble otherwise. As an example of this latter think of Turk from Daredevil. He could be modeled as a contact, but certainly not one who likes DD. (Yes, Turk could also be modeled as a Streetwise roll.)

 

One other thing I always do with contacts is to let the players know that the relationship is a 2 way street. Sometimes the contact will ask the PC for help. For reasons of making better drama I'd only ever use a contact that the PCs have interacted with in game. The more interaction the better. It's just better story than someone they've never met rocking up and handing out a quest.

[Brian Stanfield]

8 hours ago, Killer Shrike said:

I use resource pools, and I give players a fair amount of utility, appropriate to their investment. Benefits gained via contacts should serve the story IMO, not derail it, so I act accordingly.

Thanks for the input. Can you give an example? I'm trying to keep things fair with all my players, and they aren't all equally "Well Connected," so the resource pool isn't symmetrical if I do it this way. At least not until I figure out how to do it . . .

 

Let me elaborate. I love the Resource Pool rules as they stand, but I also wonder if it would make sense to offer Resource Pools for languages, Area Knowledge, and stuff like that (I suppose under the Miscellaneous category). There is some disagreement over this, and I'm still not exactly sure myself. I considered using the Perk or Skill Enhancers (Traveler, Well-Connected, Linguist) as a "buy in" for the Resource Pool, so every character isn't required to have a pool (since some of them don't have long lists of similar-but-little-used skills to worry about). I'm curious to see what you think.

 

Meanwhile, I'm looking at one of your older posts about Resource Pools from the Free Equipment forum.

[Brian Stanfield]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:42 PM, Spence said:

For myself what I don't use "floating contacts".  They are pretty much what Lucius describes. 

 

I do use Contacts, but they are solid and reliable.  The roll probability is not about whether they will help, but rather if they can.

 

On 4/29/2019 at 6:18 AM, Lucius said:

In my opinion, if you have, say, Bureacratics or High society, you have friends in high places. If you have Streetwise, you have friends in low places. If you have Paramedics and a PS:Physician, you are a medical doctor and do NOT need to buy a "Perk" to do the job you're obviously qualified for - and you will know other doctors. If your background includes a lot of travel in the Far East and the party is going to Hong Kong, you will have old acquaintances in Hong Kong. Also old enemies, so no, I don't see a point to charging points for such connections. Also also,  your friendly connections are apt to want favors from YOU or need help with something you can help with - so again, no, I don't agree with charging points for them.

 

I've been thinking on this a bit. I like the idea of using other skills for casual contacts. But if I have a guy who's a world-traveling international businessman, it seems like he would know a lot of people from a lot of places. So for a 3 point PS: International Business, he's getting the equivalent of 20 points of contacts (based on what I've given him so far). That's even more of a bargain than a Resource Pool of Contacts, even if they are lower cost "floating" contacts. 

 

So maybe I distinguish between the low-grade, casual Contacts with a skill roll, and have a couple of dependable, but more expensive, regular Contacts. The problem I'm running into is that it seems like trying to define these ahead of time is problematic, and may not fit where the game goes. In other words, I'm afraid I'll stick him with a couple of expensive contacts that I'll feel obliged to use in the game, no matter how contrived it gets. Otherwise, why pay any points for a Contact that you never use?

 

What ideas do you have for resolving the points spent on this character? He should be well-connected, but also have access to new Contacts as the game develops, but they get quite expensive. I've been going back and forth over this for a few days now, and still don't know how to resolve it. I don't want to overcomplicate things, but I don't want to needlessly overcharge my Well Connected guy either (even with his discounted Contacts).

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

5 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

 

I've been thinking on this a bit. I like the idea of using other skills for casual contacts. But if I have a guy who's a world-traveling international businessman, it seems like he would know a lot of people from a lot of places. So for a 3 point PS: International Business, he's getting the equivalent of 20 points of contacts (based on what I've given him so far). That's even more of a bargain than a Resource Pool of Contacts, even if they are lower cost "floating" contacts. 

 

So maybe I distinguish between the low-grade, casual Contacts with a skill roll, and have a couple of dependable, but more expensive, regular Contacts. The problem I'm running into is that it seems like trying to define these ahead of time is problematic, and may not fit where the game goes. In other words, I'm afraid I'll stick him with a couple of expensive contacts that I'll feel obliged to use in the game, no matter how contrived it gets. Otherwise, why pay any points for a Contact that you never use?

 

What ideas do you have for resolving the points spent on this character? He should be well-connected, but also have access to new Contacts as the game develops, but they get quite expensive. I've been going back and forth over this for a few days now, and still don't know how to resolve it. I don't want to overcomplicate things, but I don't want to needlessly overcharge my Well Connected guy either (even with his discounted Contacts).

I'll reiterate my opinion, high-travel campaign requires telecontacts, omnipresent contacts, or generic contacts. 

This businessman might be pals with a shipping mogul who operates a warehouse in every port.  This businessman might have a retired friend who's spending his remaining years traveling the globe.  This businessman might just have someone in his debt in every country. 

[Brian Stanfield]

1 minute ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I'll reiterate my opinion, high-travel campaign requires telecontacts, omnipresent contacts, or generic contacts. 

This businessman might be pals with a shipping mogul who operates a warehouse in every port.  This businessman might have a retired friend who's spending his remaining years traveling the globe.  This businessman might just have someone in his debt in every country. 

How would you cost that? This is my biggest hangup . . .

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

3 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

How would you cost that? This is my biggest hangup . . .

As per the standard Contacts price model.  A PC shouldn't be forced to pay more to get the normal benefit just because the campaign will involve travel. 

Note also the verbage in the front of the Perks section.  "If a character loses a Perk he typically gets the Character Points he spent on it back".  Immediately reinvesting those points into an equivalent contact in the new location seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

[Brian Stanfield]

6 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

As per the standard Contacts price model.  A PC shouldn't be forced to pay more to get the normal benefit just because the campaign will involve travel. 

Note also the verbage in the front of the Perks section.  "If a character loses a Perk he typically gets the Character Points he spent on it back".  Immediately reinvesting those points into an equivalent contact in the new location seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

The problem I'm running into when I'm creating these characters is that an extensive list of contacts for world travelers gets to be quite expensive really quickly. It doesn't seem fair to force them to spend 20 or more points for contacts that will come into play maybe once or twice in a campaign. If I'm following you correctly, though, in your previous example you suggest that maybe one of those contacts himself has contacts, and that takes care of the problem of the number of contacts purchased? I actually forgot that this is one of the options when buying a contact, and it seems like an interesting alternative to what I'm trying to model. Interesting solution!

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

11 minutes ago, Brian Stanfield said:

The problem I'm running into when I'm creating these characters is that an extensive list of contacts for world travelers gets to be quite expensive really quickly. It doesn't seem fair to force them to spend 20 or more points for contacts that will come into play maybe once or twice in a campaign. If I'm following you correctly, though, in your previous example you suggest that maybe one of those contacts himself has contacts, and that takes care of the problem of the number of contacts purchased? I actually forgot that this is one of the options when buying a contact, and it seems like an interesting alternative to what I'm trying to model. Interesting solution!

I think I'm not communicating well. 

 

In a normal city-bound game, a PC might have a contact who is an esteemed university professor with degrees in history and language.  The contact can answer a staggering variety of questions for the PC, provide important reference material, or direct the PC to somebody who'd know more than they do. 

In a globetrotting game, that same PC might have a similar contact.  Except, to handle the greater scope of the campaign the contact now won't balk at an international call or to ship a book out to Brazil.  The point cost and the things this contact can provide haven't changed, it's just that the scope in which the contact can operate has been expanded to match the scope of the game. 

 

In a normal city-bound game, a PC might have a contact who runs a shipping business out of a warehouse in the port.  He might offer free (albeit slow) travel, know things about commerce, and be able to obtain difficult-to-obtain items for the PC. 

In a globetrotting game, that same PC might have a similar contact.  Except, to handle the greater scope of the campaign the contact now operates a warehouse in every port.  The point cost and the things this contact can provide haven't changed, it's just that the scope in which the contact can operate has been expanded to match the scope of the game. 

 

In a normal city-bound game, a PC might have a contact who Is a black marketeer.  He can get just about anything the PC desires, and do so quickly and circumspectly. 

In a globetrotting game, that same PC might have a similar contact.  Except, to handle the greater scope of the campaign the PC now knows a black marketeer in every city.  The point cost and the things this contact can provide haven't changed, it's just that the scope in which the contact can operate has been expanded to match the scope of the game. 

 

When you take the map and draw a bigger circle labeled "You will be here", it's only fitting that the circle labeled "Your contact can help here" also gets bigger. 

[Surrealone]

10 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

When you take the map and draw a bigger circle labeled "You will be here", it's only fitting that the circle labeled "Your contact can help here" also gets bigger. 

I believe that bigger circle is where the following are intended to come into play:

• Contact has access to major institutions (examples: ports, airports, freight companies -- all over the place)
• Contact has significant Contacts of his own (examples: managers running things in other ports; pilots; ship captains; freight logisticians -- all over the place)
• Organization Contact

So yes, when you take the map and draw a bigger circle labeled 'You will be here', it is, indeed fitting that the circle labeled 'Your contact can help here' also gets bigger … and it's just as fitting that the contact be bought properly (i.e. cost more) to properly represent it.  After all, a contact who can only help with things locally doesn't have the reach/capability of one who can do things globally … and, thus, one should cost less than the other, most especially in a global game. (This actually helps incent local contact purchases in a global game … by making local ones cheaper than global ones.)  The cost delta also works well with a Resource Pool, by the way.

[Duke Bushido]

Gotta level with you, Brian--

 

The only thing limiting the effectiveness of a Contact in a global game is you.  Much like the early days of Skills: _you_ define their scope, which got slowly altered as we began breaking things down into smaller and smaller bits-- got expensive, as each "bit" broke out to cost the same as the Skill from which it was pulled---

 

You can treat contacts the same way without having to work in fancy things like resource pools or stacked Contacts or "I don't have access to this guy anymore, so give me the points back so I can buy another guy I have access to---

 

My solution, as I mentioned above, was a slightly-more-expensive version of Contact; I would like to note that I only came up with that because I wasn't starting a new Campaign, and by the time Contacts became a problem (the PCs had started to regularly move out of their Contact's areas of influence, as we had at that point, by tradition, established that Contacts have an area of influence.  But nothing really spells that out-- unless the newer editions have changed that).

 

Is there something in 6e (asking because I really don't remember and it's a bit late at night to attempt a re-read) that specifies your contact is limited in his area of influence?

 

Or look at it another way:

 

What is the difference between one guy with global influence and a dozen guys who have smaller areas of influence, but are scattered across the globe?   Or, put it the HERO way: what is the "mechanical effect" versus the "Special effect?"

 

The mechanical effect is what matters in-game, right?  Bullets and ice daggers are the same.  So I would think that one guy who can do it all is identical to twelve guys who can do 1/12 of it all, or one guy who can reach out to anywhere is the same as 360 guys who can each affect one degree of the earth's surface.

 

As someone above noted, the Contact roll isn't to see if you're contact is _available_; it's to see if your Contact can _help_.   Given that, and the above idea of looking at the mechanic, what is the in-game difference between one friend with a global network of influence and friend in every port who has regional influence?

 

Personally, after all this discussion, I say "no difference."  I say I'm going to give my players in my Brunswick game (only current game in which anyone has a Contact) the option to knock that price down to "normal Contact" and do something else with the rebated points.  If you lose a Contact, you get the points back to buy another Contact.  All things being equal, you effectively have unlimited Contacts that way anyway.  Considering everything else, I choose to interpret the Contact Roll as "can my guy help me?" as I think it's the most accurate.  That being the case, it's not a big stretch to go with "Can my guy here help me?" for every place you visit.  You'll never have to rebate those Contact points, because going this route you can't really "lose" the contact anyway: No matter where you are or how out of touch you are, "you've got a guy...."

 

Look, I'm pretty sure this is coming bout as a bunch of rambling nonsense, so I'm going to re-word and resubmit it to you when it's not pushing one-thirty in the morning (I fell asleep at my desk a couple hours ago: rough day), but I wanted to get this down both as a possible option for you and as a reminder for me to do it up better when I get the chance.

 

In poor summation:

 

pulling from everything tossed out in this conversation, I don't have a real problem with a globe-spanning game having Contacts with globe-spanning influence.  The Contact is meant to be useful, after all: you paid for that.   Given that the difference between one guy reaching across an ocean to set something in motion for you versus a local guy calling his neighbor to set something in motion for you is straight-up special effects, I don't have a problem with the idea that you've got a contact in every place you've ever been.

 

Hail Viper!