Signature Setting

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Amorkca said:

I have been enjoying San Angelo as a setting, though I'm late in coming to it and am pleased to see they are planning an update!!

 

San Angelo was a ground-breaker for a supers RPG city setting. Its detail, depth, diversity, set a standard whose influence you can see in every subsequent similar product.

[Lord Liaden]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, I'll just point out that the poll has a very clear leader.

 

So now we just have to create that signature superhero setting... oh wait, we already did.

[zslane]

The thing is, that poll is a very select data sample. It only tells us what current Hero System veterans would like to see. It says virtually nothing about what type of setting would get the Hero System played by (more of) the RPG masses, which is what I feel a signature setting should aim to do.

 

I'd further argue that in the 21st century, there hasn't been a single superhero setting that has caught fire with TTRPG players at large, and the CU is not going to be the one to change that. No superhero setting will be, as I don't believe the majority of TTRPGers are interested in playing in that genre (regardless of how much they may like going to an MCU movie once or twice a year).

[massey]

If I was in charge (and had lots of money to blow), I'd make some little stand alone games, with a stripped down version of the Hero System in each of them.  A fantasy game with pre-made spells (and no Powers section), a horror rpg where characters are competent normals, etc.  Hero would run in the background, but really it's about nice looking art and a cool theme.  See what sparks interest.  If something sells well, bring out supplements for it.  Don't try to convert people to a new religion just yet.  Instead let them have fun playing the game, not reading a set of encyclopedias to figure out the rules.

 

Then, eventually, you come out with Hero System 7th edition.  Much thinner than the double volume 6th.  Hero System -- the game you've already been playing.  Something like that.

[TranquiloUno]

17 minutes ago, zslane said:

The thing is, that poll is a very select data sample. It only tells us what current Hero System veterans would like to see. It says virtually nothing about what type of setting would get the Hero System played by (more of) the RPG masses, which is what I feel a signature setting should aim to do.

 

I'd further argue that in the 21st century, there hasn't been a single superhero setting that has caught fire with TTRPG players at large, and the CU is not going to be the one to change that. No superhero setting will be, as I don't believe the majority of TTRPGers are interested in playing in that genre (regardless of how much they may like going to an MCU movie once or twice a year).

 

Over on the reddit/r/rpg boards there are recurrent "What's the best Superhero rpg?" threads that garner good responses.

I try to fight the good fight by making sure Hero System gets mentioned but usually folks are in to more specific settings like Masks and Wild Talents and some other ones I don't remember. Heroes Unlimited comes up a lot which is lulz to me.

 

Still not a representative sample but the impression I get is folks would like a superhero setting that is more focused or oriented to the setting\setup.

 

DC and Marvel and (IMO based on years of not really paying attention or buying supplements) CU  are all kinda...generic-ish kitchen-sink style settings and kinda encourage a kinda generic superhero play style.

 

I think folks would respond better to Cyber Generation or Masks or Wild Talents or Wild Cards (!!) or even maybe Heroes or something else that has kinda an angle or schtick or something going on that isn't just (again, IMO): Superheroes!!!

Even Golden Age or something like that has more flavor and more of an angle than CU (IMO, based on casual knowledge).

 

 

 

 

[TranquiloUno]

24 minutes ago, massey said:

If I was in charge (and had lots of money to blow), I'd make some little stand alone games, with a stripped down version of the Hero System in each of them.  A fantasy game with pre-made spells (and no Powers section), a horror rpg where characters are competent normals, etc.  Hero would run in the background, but really it's about nice looking art and a cool theme.  See what sparks interest.  If something sells well, bring out supplements for it.  Don't try to convert people to a new religion just yet.  Instead let them have fun playing the game, not reading a set of encyclopedias to figure out the rules.

 

Then, eventually, you come out with Hero System 7th edition.  Much thinner than the double volume 6th.  Hero System -- the game you've already been playing.  Something like that.

 

Yah, this is partly what I'm talking about. Specific rules for specific forms of gameplay. Games with schticks. Because that seems super popular right now.

Dungeon World vs Apocalypse World vs one of the other ones.

Like what folks do with Savage Worlds and Fate and whatever else.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

I really feel like I'm becoming a repetitive downer on this thread.   The Valdorian Age and Tuala Morn were both distinct self-contained settings which modified and tailored the default Hero System rules to reinforce a particular style of game play; the former for the well-established Sword and Sorcery sub-genre, the latter for a Celtic-myth-inspired setting which has rarely been done for the TTRPG market. Scott Bennie did much the same for supers with his Gestalt: The Hero Within. Hero System was also licensed for the well-established Traveller sci-fi game world. If you look through the website store you'll see plenty of third-party products with distinctive and inventive settings, for fantasy, sci-fi, post-apoc. There's no lack of interesting setting concepts using Hero; but if you target your product for a particular type of game, you're also targeting that fraction of the gaming audience interested in that type of game. The big sellers like D&D and Pathfinder use the generalized, bog-standard setting conventions most gamers are familiar and comfortable with.

 

Things like the settings above have appeal and are worth doing, and may draw in some new players. But none of them have a track record suggesting they're a magic bullet to turn Hero Games's fortunes around. As several folks on this thread have pointed out, the trend in RPGs right now seems to be away from the "toolkit" approach which has always been Hero's greatest strength and most distinctive feature. But if Hero game designers hew too far away from that, they'll have to play catch-up with all the other games already doing so. Maybe something like that could catch fire with the buying public, but without investing the money and time to produce it first there's no way to tell.

 

I don't think I can do much more here than depress myself and everyone else, so I'll shut up now.

[Chris Goodwin]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

I really feel like I'm becoming a repetitive downer on this thread.   The Valdorian Age and Tuala Morn were both distinct self-contained settings which modified and tailored the default Hero System rules to reinforce a particular style of game play; the former for the well-established Sword and Sorcery sub-genre, the latter for a Celtic-myth-inspired setting which has rarely been done for the TTRPG market. Scott Bennie did much the same for supers with his Gestalt: The Hero Within. Hero System was also licensed for the well-established Traveller sci-fi game world. If you look through the website store you'll see plenty of third-party products with distinctive and inventive settings, for fantasy, sci-fi, post-apoc. There's no lack of interesting setting concepts using Hero; but if you target your product for a particular type of game, you're also targeting that fraction of the gaming audience interested in that type of game. The big sellers like D&D and Pathfinder use the generalized, bog-standard setting conventions most gamers are familiar and comfortable with.

 

Things like the settings above have appeal and are worth doing, and may draw in some new players. But none of them have a track record suggesting they're a magic bullet to turn Hero Games's fortunes around. As several folks on this thread have pointed out, the trend in RPGs right now seems to be away from the "toolkit" approach which has always been Hero's greatest strength and most distinctive feature. But if Hero game designers hew too far away from that, they'll have to play catch-up with all the other games already doing so. Maybe something like that could catch fire with the buying public, but without investing the money and time to produce it first there's no way to tell.

 

I don't think I can do much more here than depress myself and everyone else, so I'll shut up now.

 

You're not wrong.  Michael Surbrook stopped writing Hero materials and started writing D&D 5e and Savage Worlds materials because that's where the money was.  

 

We're sort of hitting the downside of the network effect with Hero.  There are fewer Hero players, therefore there are fewer people to play with, therefore there are fewer people buying Hero products, therefore there are fewer people running games, therefore there are fewer Hero players.  

 

There's no reason at all we can't use our toolkit system to create "flatpack" games, like the 5e D&D Starter Set.  Fantasy Hero Complete is the closest we have to the D&D Starter Set, in the HERO System.  It includes a mini-setting, a starter adventure, prebuilt characters, monsters, spells.  

 

I would guess the reason the settings didn't sell is that, once you bought them, you still needed to do the work to write an adventure.  Conventional wisdom says adventures don't make money, but the thing they do is make it easy to start up a game.  

 

So, hmmm.  

[C-Note]

Getting back to the original question, I would love an awesome Pulp setting using HERO rules.  "Lands of Mystery" was the greatest pulp adventure of all-time.

 

I'm currently running Cthulhu HERO for my players, converting published CoC adventures for HERO.  None of the players have had much HERO experience before, but they were all familiar with Call of Cthulhu.  I've been easing them into the rules, introducing additional crunchiness as they get more experience.

 

Of all the genres, I think Pulp has been the most under-served in the market, and a good opportunity for HERO to carve out a nice wedge for themselves.

 

I also believe the rules should be open-sourced (like D20), but that is another discussion.

[megaplayboy]

1 hour ago, C-Note said:

Getting back to the original question, I would love an awesome Pulp setting using HERO rules.  "Lands of Mystery" was the greatest pulp adventure of all-time.

 

I'm currently running Cthulhu HERO for my players, coverting published CoC adventures for HERO.  None of the players have had much HERO experience before, but they were all familiar with Call of Cthulhu.  I've been easing them into the rules, introducing additional crunchiness as they get more experience.

 

Of all the genres, I think Pulp has been the most under-served in the market, and a good opportunity for HERO to carve out a nice wedge for themselves.

 

I also believe the rules should be open-sourced (like D20), but that is another discussion.

Horror Hero was a nice one-off product, and added a great deal to the Presence Attack rules.  

I'm unclear on what the benefits of open-source rules for Hero system would be...wouldn't the net effect be a proliferation of "house rules" for different settings?

[massey]

You know, a Stephen King rpg would be cool.

[C-Note]

1 hour ago, megaplayboy said:

I'm unclear on what the benefits of open-source rules for Hero system would be...wouldn't the net effect be a proliferation of "house rules" for different settings?

 

I just want to increase the number of players who use the HERO System.  There's a limited amount of gaming dollars available and HERO is getting virtually none of it.  How could it hurt?

[TranquiloUno]

2 hours ago, massey said:

You know, a Stephen King rpg would be cool.

 

Finally, Running Man: The Game: The Book Version.

[Scott Ruggels]

I still think getting more Herosystem players involves a robust implementation of the rules on Roll20.net, or Fantasy Grounds.  It needs to be where the players are. 

 

As for Michael Surbrook’s migration not producing 5e material, Ingotta admit that 5e is fun and supports miniatures play well, but doesn’t get in the way and sprout arguments the way previous editions of D&D did. It’s fun for what it does, and I don’t blame him for moving on. 

[zslane]

23 hours ago, TranquiloUno said:

Over on the reddit/r/rpg boards there are recurrent "What's the best Superhero rpg?" threads that garner good responses.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in that sort of feedback. Steve Peterson revealed at numerous GenCons past that when asked what genre they'd like to see Hero Games focus on, "Pulp Action" was frequently and passionately suggested by Hero players, but then when it came time to actually buy the pulp-themed products, nobody bought them. It was as if players like the idea of the genre, but didn't care to spend their money on it. I would argue that the superhero genre is in the same boat today.

[TranquiloUno]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in that sort of feedback. Steve Peterson revealed at numerous GenCons past that when asked what genre they'd like to see Hero Games focus on, "Pulp Action" was frequently and passionately suggested by Hero players, but then when it came time to actually buy the pulp-themed products, nobody bought them. It was as if players like the idea of the genre, but didn't care to spend their money on it. I would argue that the superhero genre is in the same boat today.

 

 

I mean, maybe. The threads are based on folks liking those games, because they actually play those games, which I presume is due to them having bought those games.

Based on the threads, which I've already said are probably not entirely reliable for a number of reasons (self selection mostly), that's my impression. My impression.

Folks appear, based on the thread content, to like more focused and atmospheric and whatever name you want to call that, superhero content.

 

That's what I'm getting at.

 

The superhero games that seem popular to actually play, based on those threads, are not generic-ish kitchen-sink style Marvel\DC-ish type settings.

 

That's my impression.

[TranquiloUno]

18 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

Horror Hero was a nice one-off product, and added a great deal to the Presence Attack rules.  

I'm unclear on what the benefits of open-source rules for Hero system would be...wouldn't the net effect be a proliferation of "house rules" for different settings?

 

 

The house rules for the settings would be the benefits.

Specific examples, probably genre examples, of how you can use Hero to do X or Y.

 

Potential benefit I mean. Who really knows of course.

 

But compare the various PbtA games. Same base rules but different abilities and GM moves and whatever the heck else in each genre product.

 

Like let's use Shadowrun as an example. In SR cyberware reduces "Essence" and eventually to go crazy or whatever. Same for CP2020 I think.

Pretty basic idea in general.

 

In Hero we could emulate that in a lot of ways. Or not emulate it 'cause Essence and meta-game mechanical limits on cyberware are dumb and in Hero we have points to limit that stuff.

But what would be fun\useful\interesting (potentially, who knows?) would be a specific way to do that in Hero and a rules set that integrates that in-game mechanical construct in to the in-game fluff\setting\world lore.

 

Just as an example. Specific rules for specific settings to make those settings work more like we want them to.

Sanity loss in CoC is another example.

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, TranquiloUno said:

 

 

I mean, maybe. The threads are based on folks liking those games, because they actually play those games, which I presume is due to them having bought those games.

Based on the threads, which I've already said are probably not entirely reliable for a number of reasons (self selection mostly), that's my impression. My impression.

Folks appear, based on the thread content, to like more focused and atmospheric and whatever name you want to call that, superhero content.

 

That's what I'm getting at.

 

The superhero games that seem popular to actually play, based on those threads, are not generic-ish kitchen-sink style Marvel\DC-ish type settings.

 

That's my impression.

 

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the people who post to those threads are among the more motivated of gamers, and more willing to express their opinions. We see generally in society that the most vocal proponents of any position tend to be only a small portion of the people involved.

 

Just based on sales, "generic universal" games seem to be in decline in popularity within the tabletop hobby. It's possible that's a pendulum effect which may reverse at some point in the future. Some things go out of fashion for a while, then return, like vinyl records.   But like vinyl, tabletop RPGs facing competition from computer games, will probably never regain the popularity of their heyday.

[TranquiloUno]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the people who post to those threads are among the more motivated of gamers, and more willing to express their opinions. We see generally in society that the most vocal proponents of any position tend to be only a small portion of the people involved.

 

Totes. Self selection. But then I also think that stats (and upvotes) suggest (and I think internet content\discussion in general) that the loud ones represent Those Who Lurk as well. 

 

If Champions gets 1 comment and 12 upvotes and Masks gets 3 comments and 60+ upvotes chances are there's a reason for it. Maybe just expressions of interest of course. But AN indicator. 

 

And another thing being that those loud ones are probably the ones running games and evangelizing systems and games. "Influencers" or "people that actually do the work" depending on how you want to look at that.

 

 

Quote

Just based on sales, "generic universal" games seem to be in decline in popularity within the tabletop hobby. It's possible that's a pendulum effect which may reverse at some point in the future. Some things go out of fashion for a while, then return, like vinyl records.   But like vinyl, tabletop RPGs facing competition from computer games, will probably never regain the popularity of their heyday.

 

Well that's a funny thing, right?

The promise of "generic" *universal* systems is that you don't need to learn a new system for every game.

 

But functionally this is already largely true in the RGP industry. PF, D&D, PbtA, FATE. You can play Starfinder instead of Pathfinder or Apocalypse World instead of Dungeon world. Even stuff like the Palladium and White Wolf games have an underlying (mostly) "universal" system at this point.

 

Used to be you'd learn D&D to play D&D, Champs to play Champs, FASERIP to play Marvel, Traveller to play Traveller, MEGS to etc etc.

Now you learn PF\D&D and you're good to go generally in the PF\d20\5e\etc family.

 

The other thing being back in the day the options were limited. And a lot of what I understand are called "heartbreakers".

If AD&D was dumb because X then you played Y because it didn't have that or Z because whatever. 

Palladium Fantasy instead of D&D instead of Harn instead of Fantasy Hero instead of Talislanta.

But in a lot of cases there were no books at first. 

Hero did a lot of that, right? 

 

Justice, Inc instead of Pulp Hero (right? are they the matching genre?).

Danger, Int instead of Top Secret (totally different system than D&D, Gamma World (3rd edition), etc).

 

That sort of deal. Certainly if you wanted to play cyberpunk you were likely to jump on Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020 back then. 

 

Point being there were advantages to both being generic (you could adapt it for a setting\genre that didn't exist in the market) and universal (only one general rule set) then that I don't think exist now.

 

Now there is a game for each and every little niche I can think of. I can't speak to quality of course. But they exist. So many of them!

So the generic part is less marketable.

 

And now there are a few kinda "big" base semi-universal systems out there so the universal part is less marketable.

 

BUT, again the thing that Hero can do via the toolkit approach is craft custom rules variations for highly specific settings and genres.

And you still only have to learn one ruleset and you can still get in under the hood and tinker with the universal mechanics and stuff.

 

So it's the advantages of both the new school approach of specific settings\schticks for specific RPGs and the old school approach of having one base set of rules for a bunch of different games.

 

Or could be. If we could find folks to evangelize it. Maybe. I guess.

 

Seems like it would be easier to spread the good word about This Really Cool Game About X than it would about This Really Cool Tookit You Can Turn In To A Game Of Various Sorts.

 

Even tho I personally think the transforming game toolkit is the cool part I think Those Who Lurk are probably easier to sell on cool specific genres settings\instances than A Game That Can Become Another Game.

 

You know? 

 

Like I can tell you about a cool new movie or band. But it's hard to tell you about a movie that could be any movie or a song that could sound like whatever you want it to.

 

Having cool examples of Hero doing cool, but specific, stuff would be easier to point to and say: This here is a great implementation of Buffy\Angel type shows! 

 

And to be clear I'm certainly guilty of buying only the main books and the "big" supplements (Ultimate X stuff) and not buying the settings books much. 

 

It seems like for GMs the draw is rolling up your own world. So the settings books aren't as intriguing. 

But for players the draw seems more like having a cool world and setting and characters to play in. So the basic premise of a toolkit isn't as appealing.

 

Maybe? How's that strike you?

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Sounds like a reasonable theory.

 

Back around the turn of the millennium, there were dozens of quality fan-created websites for Fourth and Fifth Edition Hero one could point to, covering every genre, with both original settings and Hero adaptations and conversions of established settings from books, movies, television, even other games; everything from D&D, to Star Wars, to feudal Japan, Marvel and DC supers, Babylon 5, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dragonball, Highlander, Call of Cthulhu, Lord of the Rings, Wild Cards, Shadowrun, Star Trek, Jorune, Robotech, Gamma World, Mutants and Masterminds... Most of those have disappeared into the aether by now, and there hasn't been a surge of Sixth Edition material to replace them.

[assault]

11 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Sounds like a reasonable theory.

 

Back around the turn of the millennium, there were dozens of quality fan-created websites for Fourth and Fifth Edition Hero one could point to, covering every genre, with both original settings and Hero adaptations and conversions of established settings from books, movies, television, even other games; everything from D&D, to Star Wars, to feudal Japan, Marvel and DC supers, Babylon 5, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dragonball, Highlander, Call of Cthulhu, Lord of the Rings, Wild Cards, Shadowrun, Star Trek, Jorune, Robotech, Gamma World, Mutants and Masterminds... Most of those have disappeared into the aether by now, and there hasn't been a surge of Sixth Edition material to replace them.

 

I don't think personal websites are as common any more as they were then, so at one level that's not a problem. But, on the other hand, blogs have replaced them to a far extent, and where are the Hero System blogs?

 

Of course, at that point I have to ask: where is my Hero System blog? Hmm.

[massey]

I'd think that a quick, cheap setting/game that uses the bones of the Hero System could be relatively successful.  The point would be to create a game that is easy to learn, fun to play, and catches the eye.

 

Suppose you make a little 80 to 100 page softcover book, Terror at Camp Blood (which happens to have been the original working title of Friday the 13th).  And let's say the game is meant for one-off game sessions when your regular GM is gone, or you're between campaigns.  On the cover you have a picture of a lake, with trees in the background, and a man's leg and boot in the foreground.  The man's arm is visible, holding a bloody axe.  People are swimming in the lake, and haven't noticed anything amiss.  This cover clearly communicates what the game is about.  Everybody already knows what they're going to find within, and if you keep it at like fifteen bucks, people who are interested in horror will buy it.

 

The game itself uses basic Hero mechanics.  Str, Dex, Con, OCV, DCV, Body and Stun.  Eliminate things that aren't necessary.  Trim as much as possible.  We don't worry about MCV.  We don't worry about the Speed chart.  Anything we want to take from that can be given a simple mechanic that takes place behind the scenes.  Have some pregen character stat blocks (Jock, Nerd, Cheerleader, Stoner, etc) where each one has a bonus in a particular area.  Don't separate out any genre rules, those are an integral part of the game.  Those are the rules.

 

There can be actual Hero mechanics behind everything, but they'll only be presented within the structure of the specialized game.  For instance, each character may have 3D6 of Luck, only when they go out in the woods to look for their friends.  The killer may have Detect: Skinny Dipping.  Characters may also have 3/3 Combat Luck, only when they're the last one alive.  None of these things are going to be spelled out in Hero terminology, they'll be called something appropriate to the game.  The whole thing should work as a complete stand alone game.  People familiar with Hero may say "hey, I know what this is..." but everybody else should just think it's a fun little game.  Build fun game mechanics that are appropriate to the genre into the game itself.  If you smoke pot or get naked, you get a "blood point" or something, and the more blood points you have the faster you get killed.  But maybe there's a reason why you'd want to gain blood points too.  But you'd have a carefully hidden Hero mechanic that guided this (like an Aid or something) that formed the basis for how it worked.  You just wouldn't call it that.

 

Have a note in the front of the book, "this game uses the Hero System mechanics, but you don't need to buy anything else.  Terror at Camp Blood is a complete game by itself.  The Hero System itself covers more genres (from fantasy to superheroes) and can be modified extensively, but TaCB is all you need to play slasher movie mayhem."  At the very end of the book, you might have a little paragraph breaking down the Hero rules that were used in the game.

[zslane]

1 hour ago, massey said:

There can be actual Hero mechanics behind everything, but they'll only be presented within the structure of the specialized game.

 

I consider this to be the ideal strategy as well.

[Chris Goodwin]

2 hours ago, massey said:

There can be actual Hero mechanics behind everything, but they'll only be presented within the structure of the specialized game.

 

1 hour ago, zslane said:

 

I consider this to be the ideal strategy as well.

 

This is how Espionage, Justice Inc, Danger International, and the other non-supers games worked.  Things like weapons, poisons, gadgets, and so on, didn't have Power writeups; they were described in tables or prose.  Normal vs. Killing damage, normal and resistant DEF, STUN and BODY damage, etc., all were explained, but only to the extent needed to run the genre in question.  

[Spence]

40 minutes ago, Chris Goodwin said:

 

 

This is how Espionage, Justice Inc, Danger International, and the other non-supers games worked.  Things like weapons, poisons, gadgets, and so on, didn't have Power writeups; they were described in tables or prose.  Normal vs. Killing damage, normal and resistant DEF, STUN and BODY damage, etc., all were explained, but only to the extent needed to run the genre in question.  

 

Exactly.  Now instead of cluttering the book with annotation and melting the brains of new players that just want to actually play a game. In the back you add an appendix the shows the build annotation for the builds in the front so people that care can see how things were built.

 

Hero really needs to get people to play enough that they will then want to learn how to build/customize things. 

 

It's kind of like a house. 

 

When someone buys a house for $350k, they expect something they can actually live in.  That is 99% of the successful RPGs.

 

Now if they show up to their "$350k house" and discover it is stacks of lumber and hardware and they are supposed to "assemble it themselves" they will be pissed and probably sue. But this is Hero right now. Here are some design rules, create the game yourself.

 

Back before internet and streaming and the modern 24 blitz of things to do, we had enough spare time to actually be bored. In the 80/90s I had hours of free time with nothing to fill it.  I loved Hero and spent hours building.

 

Now people seem to have far less free time and given the choice of number crunching or watching a stream, well they watch the stream.

 

A common theme for Hero these days is something like "oh god, don't do a generic high fantasy world like D&D and Pathfinder.  There are too many of them."

 

But that is exactly what Hero needs.  A rulebook on Playing, not building. People trying to learn a new game want to be able to grab a standard concept a play.  Use characters designed using pre-built capabilities, spells and gear with NO DESIGN ANNOTATION.   Close to D&D, buy characteristics, buy pre-built abilities, spells and gear from lists.  Include a suitable selection of creatures and treasure plus an introduction adventure.

 

In the back of the book include an appendix with just the build annotation for the stuff on the list with an introduction that directs you to Fantasy Hero Complete and how to build anything.

 

Heck, you could make the current Fantasy Hero Complete the second half of the book.

 

The first part allows people to PLAY  Hero. The second part shows them how to create their own material.

 

All of the successful RPGs are like a three legged stool.

Leg 1 = Rules and supplements

 

Leg 2 = Setting Books, Creature/Treasure/NPC books, etc.

 

Leg 3 = Adventures and Campaigns so people can play.

 

Hero ignores the 3rd leg and wonders why the stool keeps falling over.