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Cool_Manchu

Help Building STR-based Power Pool

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Can a Variable Power pool be used to apply advantages to a Characteristic? Specifically, can the pool be used to apply advantages to STR? If it is possible, then what limitation would you put on it if you have additional powers, but then can only be relayed via hand-to-hand combat? So if you took a Drain and linked it to the punch or a Blast, so they would have to be taken with No Range?  

 

How would one go about building this out? Let me know if I am not being clear enough.


Thanks in advance for your input.

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I'd suggest not buying up your base STR.  In fact, sell it down! 

Instead, buy all the STR you want in the VPP and put whatever Advantages you want on it.  Since it's in a VPP, you can freely mix and match Advantages, forsake Advantages in favor of raw STR, or have some degree of STR alongside a Linked power like Drain. 

 

Alternatively, take Variable Advantage on your STR and relegate the VPP to building powers Linked to your STR like the Drain you mentioned. 

 

A third option would be to ask your GM for permission to take Naked Advantage in your VPP. 

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Are you married to the VPP concept? Because I find it generally much easier and cheaper to talk to your GM and let him know you'd like to go that route eventually but start it with a MP instead to get everyone used to the swapping, etc. VPP are a lot of book keeping during the game and doing it with an MP will get you into the groove and ease the transition for later. 

 

I'd probably put -1/4 on the whole MP as "No ranged attacks except RBS on STR". Mostly because I tend to find bricks looking to throw things and not being able to do their signature stuff when they throw things is an "Awwww" moment.

 

If you start out assuming something like 50 STR and you want to be able to apply +1/2 in advantages. Simplest way is Variable Advantages, which would cost 50 points but not give you the versatility of being able to use drains, etc. So if we go with:

 

Brick Tricks, 37 Point Pool,  No ranged attacks except RBS on STR (-1/4), 30 RP

2 (f) "Triple Threat" Autofire [3 shots] on 50 STR at 0 End, 18 AP

4 (v) "Rattle 'Em" 3d6 CON Drain, 1/2 End, 37 AP, No range (-1/2) Linked to STR (-1/2) 18 RP [12 pool points per die]

2 (f) "Armor? What Armor?" Armor Piercing on 50 STR at 0 END, 18 AP

2 (v) "Negate This!" 6 levels of Reduced Physical Damage Negation on STR, 12 AP [2 pool points per die]

 

This is just a small set for a starting character. You could combine the negation with any of the other three or you could add a die of "Rattle 'Em"  and 3 dice of reduced negation to either of the other two slots. Adding another slot or two is trivial and can cost as little as 1 XP to do, giving you more options each time (AoE: Radius, AoE: Line, Penetrating, Affects Desolid, etc).

 

A similar VPP would cost twice as much, but allow you to stack a number of these together more easily.

 

38 Control (Change Between Scenes, Slightly limited power set, -1/2) 13 RP, 66 Pool Total: 79 RP

 

Now, there are ways to reduce the VPP real points needed with limitations, etc. But it makes the power creation much more complex at the start and until you are very familiar with how Naked Power Advantages and pools work, it's better to start simple, IMO.

 

- E

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Yeah, exactly. I want to be on the up-and-up. It seems too powerful for an MP. I cannot find a single example of any villain or hero in the 6E materials that has Naked Advantage in an MP. It's vaguely alluded to in the 6E Core Book 1, but not really addressed in a way that is satisfactory. Also, HeroDesigner doesn't allow for a Naked Advantage to be put into an MP. 

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45 minutes ago, Cool_Manchu said:

Yeah, exactly. I want to be on the up-and-up. It seems too powerful for an MP. I cannot find a single example of any villain or hero in the 6E materials that has Naked Advantage in an MP. It's vaguely alluded to in the 6E Core Book 1, but not really addressed in a way that is satisfactory. Also, HeroDesigner doesn't allow for a Naked Advantage to be put into an MP. 

 

6e1, 314

Quote

Naked Power Advantages are considered Special Powers (and therefore may not be bought in Power Frameworks without the GM’s permission).

HeroDesigner should allow it. And the same rule applies to VPP's, so no difference there.

 

- E

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2 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

One thing - 0 END on anything with Autofire would be +1, not +1/2, so you'd probably need to factor the cost of that additional +1/2 into that slot.

Good catch. That would change the slot AP to 24, but still slot cost of 2. You could only use 1d6 of Drain with it (non-autofire of course).

 

- E

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55 minutes ago, Cool_Manchu said:

Also, I don't think it's "legal" to put Naked Advantages into a Multipower. It's how I built it out, but I think it's problematic. 

Not sure what to do if you think that is problematic. MP and VPP are both frameworks, so the same rules for what go in each apply to both. 

 

I guess if you wanted you could buy them as Naked Advantages and apply Unified Power to them? Or you could go the variable advantage route, but you start to hit campaign limits really quickly that way.

 

- E

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Option A) If all attacks are damage attacks, you can get away with no range Blast attacks with the required advantages in a multipower. The maximum dice should be the amount the character can do with STR alone. For example, if he has a 40 STR, that is a 8d6 damage for STR. That means the maximum he can buy is 8d6. If you want to count for "special pushing", that can be increased to 12d6 in one attack.

 

Option B ) Same as Option A, but it is a VVP. I would of course allow conversion into a VVP when the Multipower gets to a certain cost (MP base cost + slots = VVP cost + control cost).

 

Option C) Variable Advantage on raw STR as naked advantage, and give lots of options.

 

Which option seems easier?

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Given that it's not legal (without GM permission) to put Naked Advantages on STR into a MP or VPP because Naked Power Advantages are Special Powers, but Hand-to-Hand Attacks (HAs) are Standard Powers...

 

What if you built a series of small HAs with the Advantage(s) you want in a MP or VPP, and then add the STR at a prorated amount based on the Advantage(s) on the HAs, as explained on 6E2:102?

 

So if you have 50 STR, Reduced END (0 END; +1/2) and then:

 

Multipower 22 points

f - HA +2d6, AP (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2) - 17 Active Points

f - HA +2d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), 0 END (+1) - 22 Active Point (I'd consider the +1/2 worth of Reduced END on the base 50 STR to then become Half END)

f - HA +2d6, AoE (2m Radius; +1/4), 0 END (+1/2) - 17 Active Points

etc.

 

Then you could do 10d6 AP punch at 0 END, or 3x 10d6 punches at 2 END each, or 10d6 AoE 2m Radius at 0 END, etc.

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10 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Then you could do 10d6 AP punch at 0 END, or 3x 10d6 punches at 2 END each, or 10d6 AoE 2m Radius at 0 END, etc.

I was with you right up to that line. Looking at the chart on 101, wouldn't it be 9 1/2 d6 AP,  3x 7d6 Punches and 9 1/2 d6 AOE?

 

Per the last paragraph on 102: 

"If a character has an Advantage for his STR but hasn’t bought the same Advantage for an attack he adds damage to with STR, the Advantage doesn’t apply to the attack at all"

So you either you have the same advantage for the base attack and added STR (0 End in this case) or it goes away completely. He is looking to avoid GM permission kind of things.

 

- E

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2 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

I was with you right up to that line. Looking at the chart on 101, wouldn't it be 9 1/2 d6 AP,  3x 7d6 Punches and 9 1/2 d6 AOE?

 

Per the last paragraph on 102: 

"If a character has an Advantage for his STR but hasn’t bought the same Advantage for an attack he adds damage to with STR, the Advantage doesn’t apply to the attack at all"

So you either you have the same advantage for the base attack and added STR (0 End in this case) or it goes away completely. He is looking to avoid GM permission kind of things.

 

- E

 

Starting with your second part first: 

 

What you were referring to is if STR has the Advantage but the HA doesn't.  I'm talking the other way around (HA has an Advantage that STR doesn't have).

 

Reading a little further.

On the other hand, if the Advantages on STR and on the HA/HKA do not match exactly, then STR adds according to the standard rule above.

Meaning that you consult the table to adjust the STR by the amount of the Advantage(s) on the HA/HKA that aren't on STR.

 

And as to your first line, since the STR already has 0 END on it, as do all the HAs, you'd only have +1/4 on each of those HA slots that isn't on the STR, giving you 8d6 from STR plus 2d6 from the HA, or 10d6 each time.  As to the Autofire, since that changes the Advantage value for Reduced END, I was assuming the GM would go with the 0 END on the STR becoming Half END (based on the +1/2 value paid for it).  At least, that's the call I would make.  Of course, YMMV.

 

Finally, as to doing that to avoid GM permission, heck, it's perfectly legal, but if the GM objects, it wouldn't be prohibitively more expensive to remove the Multipower entirely and have each HA slot as a separate power.  (22 + 1 + 2 + 1 = 26 for the Multipower + slots, versus 14 + 17 + 14 = 45 for individual powers)

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Expanding on that, if I'm reading all of that correctly:

 

If you had, say, AP on 50 STR, and also an HA +2d6, AoE (2m Radius), then the attack would simply be a 10d6 AoE (but no AP, since that wasn't on the HA).   That's what the part that eepjr24 quoted says, at least as I read it.

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