Difficult to dodge.

[Trencher]

I was thinking of making a ranged attack power that is difficult to dodge. Giving the opposing character -1 or more to his or hers dodge roll. 

What is the best way of going about that? I can not just wing it because this is a power for a player. 

[dmjalund]

dodge is just bonus DCV, it can be countered by bonus OCV (conditional)

[TranquiloUno]

2 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

dodge is just bonus DCV, it can be countered by bonus OCV (conditional) 

 

+4 OCV (only when opponent is dodging) ;D

 

2 hours ago, Trencher said:

I was thinking of making a ranged attack power that is difficult to dodge. Giving the opposing character -1 or more to his or hers dodge roll. 

What is the best way of going about that? I can not just wing it because this is a power for a player.  

 

There's a Dodge roll?

[dsatow]

 

43 minutes ago, TranquiloUno said:

 

+4 OCV (only when opponent is dodging) ;D

 

 

There's a Dodge roll?

 

Or make the attack accurate.

 

Hrmmm, I wonder if he's mixing terms.  Dodge roll sounds a lot like dive for cover.

[ScottishFox]

How about an advantage on the attack (AoE 3m radius) that only works when the target dodges.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

What's the SFX?  Why is the attack harder to dodge than any other attack? 

Did you mean the Dodge action in particular, or is it just a more accurate attack? 

[Duke Bushido]

Aim for the hex next to him.  Now he's down to dive for cover.

 

 

[Trencher]

4 hours ago, TranquiloUno said:

 

+4 OCV (only when opponent is dodging) ;D

 

 

This is brilliant and I am ashamed I did not think of it. 

3 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

 

Or make the attack accurate.

 

Hrmmm, I wonder if he's mixing terms.  Dodge roll sounds a lot like dive for cover.

I am indeed mixing terms. I wanted the power to both be difficult to dodge and difficult to dive for cover from. 

2 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

What's the SFX?  Why is the attack harder to dodge than any other attack? 

Did you mean the Dodge action in particular, or is it just a more accurate attack? 

Its a shadowy attack that looks like its in several places at once, making it difficult to detect the real one. 

 

The character is a shadow mage of sorts. And I wanted to create a shadow blast that can both be used at range and to smack attackers in meele. But that is for the multipower. I was wondering more about how to make the difficult to dodge/ dive for cover to work. 

In fact how do you put penalties on other characters dex rolls in general without having to go into transform? Which is more expensive than just having a power that kills the target. 

[Hugh Neilson]

4 minutes ago, Trencher said:

Its a shadowy attack that looks like its in several places at once, making it difficult to detect the real one.

 

So why is that more likely to hit someone actively dodging than someone who is just fast?  Not using the Dodge maneuver does not mean I am not trying to avoid your attack.  It sounds like the attack should have some bonus OCV and/or the "Accurate" advantage.  I seldom see it used, but a 4 meter radius Accurate attack can hit the target as long as he remains in that 4 meter area.

 

For an additional +¼ Advantage, Accurate, a character can define an Area Of Effect (Radius) as automatically targeting only a single person, regardless of how many there are in the Radius. (Typically Accurate is only taken for 1m Radius powers.) This makes the attack work against DCV 3 without having the potential to affect multiple targets. The Range Modifier applies to Accurate attacks normally. Characters cannot Dodge or Block Accurate attacks, but can Dive For Cover to avoid them.

[Trencher]

Accurate is also good. 

 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

33 minutes ago, Trencher said:

I am indeed mixing terms. I wanted the power to both be difficult to dodge and difficult to dive for cover from. 

Its a shadowy attack that looks like its in several places at once, making it difficult to detect the real one.

Difficult to avoid with Dodge maneuver would just be conditional OCV, that's easy.  Difficult to avoid using Dive for Cover is a lot harder, since you'd have to be able to penalize their DEX roll or have a large AoE that still only hit one person.  You could do it, but it'd be clunky. 

So I'll suggest you bypass that entirely! 

I propose buying the power with Invisible Power Effects (Two senses) Only to prevent Aborting to Dodge and Dive for Cover in Response.  I'd ballpark that as a +1/4 Advantage.  This way, they can't even take the Dodge or Dive for Cover actions in response to your attack. 

[eepjr24]

Accurate works great if they are in the AoE. Personally I would go with Accurate on 8 hex AoE if you want it effective against Dive For Cover. Almost everyone has 10" of running which equates to a 5" dive for cover, getting you out of the base 4" AoE.

 

As to make the Dex roll required in Dive For Cover more difficult, the only way I can think to do it is have a Change Environment that activates in some phase before the attack. You make it AoE and set the effect to being a -N DEX penalty. There are probably other ways but none come to mind immediately.

 

- E

[eepjr24]

15 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Difficult to avoid with Dodge maneuver would just be conditional OCV, that's easy.  Difficult to avoid using Dive for Cover is a lot harder, since you'd have to be able to penalize their DEX roll or have a large AoE that still only hit one person.  You could do it, but it'd be clunky. 

So I'll suggest you bypass that entirely! 

I propose buying the power with Invisible Power Effects (Two senses) Only to prevent Aborting to Dodge and Dive for Cover in Response.  I'd ballpark that as a +1/4 Advantage.  This way, they can't even take the Dodge or Dive for Cover actions in response to your attack. 

Hrm. It would depend on the campaign, but either +1/4 or +1/2 would be appropriate. If the only typical defense against magic in the campaign was "don't get hit by it", then I would go with +1/2, otherwise (players have access to some type of DEF that applies to magic effects) +1/4. You are essentially buying IPE for 2 sense groups (+1 advantage) and then limiting it to just hiding the Target Portion. See 6e1, 125 and 338 for all the deets, but it will be a bit subjective as exact discounts are not spelled out. I like the idea though.

 

Edit: This would not do as much good in a couple situations, like one on one duels, fights where your best target is obvious or fights where you have a faster opponent who can afford to dive for cover defensively and still hurt you in some other way.

 

- E

Edited July 11, 2019 by eepjr24

[Ninja-Bear]

Iirc, Accurate can only be applied to a 2m radius.

[eepjr24]

3 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Iirc, Accurate can only be applied to a 2m radius.

Nope.

6e1, 320

Quote

Accurate: For an additional +¼ Advantage, Accurate, a character can define an Area Of Effect (Radius) as automatically targeting only a single person, regardless of how many there are in the Radius. (Typically Accurate is only taken for 1m Radius powers.)

 

[dsatow]

2 minutes ago, eepjr24 said:

Nope.

6e1, 320

 

In 5th ed, its 2m or 1 hex only.  One of the good things in 6th is the change in AoE.

[Scott Ruggels]

AOE  1 or 2 Hex radius, Single target, only when target is dodging or diving for cover?

[eepjr24]

35 minutes ago, dsatow said:

In 5th ed, its 2m or 1 hex only.  One of the good things in 6th is the change in AoE.

True. But in 5e it was no additional cost to make it accurate and it could be dodged still (dodge added to the base hex DCV of 3).

 

- E

[Hugh Neilson]

21 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Iirc, Accurate can only be applied to a 2m radius.

You recall 5e correctly, IIRC.  My quote was right from the 6e rules, but I guess I should have stopped and labeled it so eepjr24 would not have to re-quote it.

[Ninja-Bear]

To be honest, the quote from 6th with the wording typically also threw me for a loop.  I take that as always  not most of the time. 😁

[Scott Ruggels]

Hmmm EB, targets ECV?

[Trencher]

You cant dive for cover away from ego attacks? 

That could work very well. 

[ScottishFox]

Re-reading the Dive for Cover rules has me thinking.

 

You can Dive to avoid any attack?  Like unlimited OCV is negated by a simple DEX roll at -1?

 

Not sure I would allow that.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its just extra OCV like people have said.

 

Quote

You can Dive to avoid any attack?  Like unlimited OCV is negated by a simple DEX roll at -1?

 

Well and losing your next phase and being prone.  Its not without a cost.