Change Environment - Damage - How does it work?

[Ken Filewood]

Hi, I'm new here and just looking at HERO 6E (specifically Fantasy Hero Complete/ Champions Complete) for the first time, after decades away from HERO systems games.  The learning curve is steep, and I need some help to understand how damage inflicted by Change Environment works.

 

I am looking at page 63 of FHC, where  one of the Combat Effects you can buy for change environment is "damage" at 1 point of damage for 5 CPs.

 

How do I apply this damage?  Do I interpret it as 1 point of STUN applied against PD/ED (my choice)?  1 point of NND STUN attack?  1 point of BODY?  Or 1 active point worth of damage (i.e. 1/5 of a 1d6 normal attack, or 1/10 dice of NND)?

 

I presume it applies every phase, since the power is constant.  So if I hit somebody with change environment, they take the damage every phase until I switch off the power?

 

If I buy area effect (as one surely would), then it affects everyone in the area, every phase?

 

It seems that this effect might be appropriate for many natural and magical phenomena, but I'd like to know how the mechanics are meant to work, and I can't seem to find it described anywhere in either of the books I have.

 

Any help you can offer very welcome.

[ghost-angel]

It is 1 Point of Normal Damage (Body + Stun) that is triggered when a Target is in the CE Area Of Effect, they take the point when they first enter the area, and every time the Character who activated/controls the Change Environment has their Phase come up.

[theinfn8]

2 hours ago, ghost-angel said:

It is 1 Point of Normal Damage (Body + Stun) that is triggered when a Target is in the CE Area Of Effect, they take the point when they first enter the area, and every time the Character who activated/controls the Change Environment has their Phase come up.

 

Not that you would see this in FHC, but one of the examples in 6e1 uses 1 pt of Killing Damage at a 5 cp cost. Really, that only means the difference of a pittance of stun, but that would change the defense required. And the example is listed as AVAD, defense is LS: Safe Environment [High Pressure], so you could always take that route as well.

 

It does make sense that 1 pt of Killing Damage in a CE would cost 5 cp. As that is what it would cost to buy it straight up.

 

[Ken Filewood]

8 hours ago, ghost-angel said:

It is 1 Point of Normal Damage (Body + Stun) that is triggered when a Target is in the CE Area Of Effect, they take the point when they first enter the area, and every time the Character who activated/controls the Change Environment has their Phase come up.

The bit about 'when they first enter the area' makes a lot of sense - thank you!

 

Regarding the type of damage, it seems from theinfn8's response that there might be room for interpretation on that?  But one interpretation seems much more 'valuable' than the other - and I wouldn't want to end up making Change Environment a more flexible kind of killing attack.

 

I can see that for different special effects one might want to choose a different damage type?  I am thinking about the difference between 'makes the air unbearably hot and humid' versus 'makes the air hot enough to melt steel, like in the heart of a furnace'.

 

Maybe it would be easier to just create a linked attack with the same area of effect to represent whatever the damaging effect is.

 

What do you think? 

[ghost-angel]

theinf8 is correct, it is 1 Point of Killing Damage, it should do the standard modifier for Killing Attacks on stun.

[theinfn8]

9 hours ago, Ken Filewood said:

But one interpretation seems much more 'valuable' than the other - and I wouldn't want to end up making Change Environment a more flexible kind of killing attack.

Moderately more valuable, but the rules also say the GM should put a limit on the amount of damage. Without pulling the book out, I vaguely recall a recommended(?) 3 damage cap on the damage.

 

9 hours ago, Ken Filewood said:

I can see that for different special effects one might want to choose a different damage type?  I am thinking about the difference between 'makes the air unbearably hot and humid' versus 'makes the air hot enough to melt steel, like in the heart of a furnace'.

 

Maybe it would be easier to just create a linked attack with the same area of effect to represent whatever the damaging effect is.

 

What do you think? 

 

And depending on your effect, that might be the better way to go. Just don't forget that Change Environment is single target at its base level and is not meant as a primary means of creating damage. You need to tack on AoE, AVAD, and all that other stuff. If you're combining multiple effects from the table, that could get expensive fairly quickly.

 

I always envision CE damage as kind of a side effect (like poltergeists whipping loose objects around an area is meant to impair vision, but it could also cause a pt or two of damage if you got hit). The damage is more of a secondary part of the main usage. Because of that, if the target even has 1 rPD, the damage part of it is basically ignored.

 

If the point was to have the objects hurt people, then it should be a Blast/RKA with AoE (and maybe IIF for the necessary "ground clutter" in my example) and some kind of time advantage for the continued use. And maybe the vision impairment is a side effect of the damage and would be linked that way.

[Ken Filewood]

20 hours ago, ghost-angel said:

theinf8 is correct, it is 1 Point of Killing Damage, it should do the standard modifier for Killing Attacks on stun.

 

18 hours ago, theinfn8 said:

Moderately more valuable, but the rules also say the GM should put a limit on the amount of damage. Without pulling the book out, I vaguely recall a recommended(?) 3 damage cap on the damage....

 

If the point was to have the objects hurt people, then it should be a Blast/RKA with AoE (and maybe IIF for the necessary "ground clutter" in my example) and some kind of time advantage for the continued use. And maybe the vision impairment is a side effect of the damage and would be linked that way.

That sounds pretty sensible to me.

 

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.