Scott Ruggels Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 I would have to say example characters are mandatory. The goal is to be able to play out of the box, and characters generation may bog things down at first. How I learned Champions was being handed a sheet by the GM and given a quick explanation of how to hit, and how the speed chart worked. Nothing else was needed to get me hooked for decades. This also can illustrate the same characters as the progress through this and the other adventures of this series. Character generation should be an option, but it is the hardest sell for people coming to Champions, today. Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 I'm not opposed to example characters. I think they would be useful, and their importance becomes much greater if we deviate from the standards set by CC sample characters. Are there sample characters in CC? Could they be used to reduce the numbers we need for Hepzibah (not if we want to deviate from the baseline they set, of course). What I am opposed to is designing the scenario to suit those characters, such that the scenario needs, rather than permits, those specific characters to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said: What I am opposed to is designing the scenario to suit those characters, such that the scenario needs, rather than permits, those specific characters to be used. I don't think that will be a problem. We simply make sure the pre-gens don't have forbidden powers. Practiclly and brick, martial artist, energy blaster, mentalist (with or without telepathy), gadgeter, or patriot can be dropped in and can play, in any combination we can think up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: I'm not opposed to "sample characters" per se, but I do not believe the scenario should be written specifically for them, Neither do I. I believe the original suggestion was to build them as currently-active supers, making them work as _either_ background NPCs _or_ pre-gen PCs, depending entirely on the groups preferences. It's not a "do" this thing as much as it is "here is a thing." 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: A better alternative, if it is practical, would be to use character guidelines, and sample characters, from the rulebook - Champions Complete. Which brings up the primary purpose of the sample characters, and the reason they were suggested in the first place: The majority of the write-ups that run with the new edition is anathema to new players learning the game. You'd need some an experience GM, two experienced players, and a rosetta stone to make sense of them. Without any hint of hyperbole, I have been playing this game since 81. Seriously. The longest "break" I've had from playing or running this game was the six months after I got married, and the three months I broke after the birth of each kid. So spread across the decades, I've had a total of 12 months without at least one game a month, and often more. I say that _not_ to present myself as an expert, but to present myself as "kind of experienced with this stuff." I've played every version of the rules (except 6) in spite of my preference for 2e. There are power builds in the 6e material (some of which I own. In fact, I mailed Scott my extra copy of CC, as I won't ever be using it) that I have no F'n _clue_ what the Hell they do, and sometimes, even reading the text descriptions just doesn't help. That's bullstip, Dude. Complete and utter bullstip. That is _not_ the thing we need for new players. We need simple builds-- some modifiers are fine, but when it becomes a matter of seeing just how many you can tie together because you're just so good at it? Nah. That is _exactly_ what the HERO rep is, and why people aren't interested, and _not_ what we need to be relying on to win over new people. Clean, easy to understand (and briefly explained, just in case) sample characters. I insist. People _need_ them, and given the increased complexity of newer editions, they need them more than they ever needed them before. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: As a starting adventure, my view is that the combination of Under the Dome and the CC rulebook should provide everything they need to create characters and start playing. And I agree. It is simply that I believe a few clean, digestible examples of how to build a character (emphasis on "digestible") are vital to that. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: The goal was a "play out of the box" game, I believe. To date, I have everything HERO ever did in a boxed set (though I don't have the actual "box" for 3e Champions). Every one of them includes a selection of written-up characters. Not to say we need to model ourselves on a bygone time, but it bears noting that game designers of yore seemed to think a few more examples were a good thing. One of the complaints about the last two editions was that there were no physical guidelines or even hard ideas on where a character should land on the power scale, etc. I would like to include characters that provide 1) utility as easy-to-understand builds new players can use as examples of how the rules work: nothing as complex as the current official write-ups of almost anyone (I think Foxbat is still pretty easy to understand, but I don't have the enemies books for the last two editions, and he wasn't an example in the current rules books). 2) A rough idea of what power level this adventure could be expected to start at without having to throw out concepts that A) they may not yet be comfortable with and B.) players on this very board have complained about as not being particularly helpful with regard to building a reasonably-useful character. 3) Characters that a new GM or new player could potentially use as pre-gen characters if they are not willing to tackle character creation on their own. For example, when I was learning to play, I was dating a charming young lady named Kimberlynn, and -- possibly curious about why those two Saturdays a month were off-limits for making plans-- one evening she tagged along to game night at Jim's. The first hour, she just watched and listened. The rest of the evening, she played. Jim handed her a xerox of Blue Jay from his personal selection of Villains, and that was her character. No way in Hell was she ever inclined to make a character, and even then, she only played four or five times before deciding "eh.... not my thing." Lots of people who try gaming end up deciding it's not their thing. A lot of them decide it _is_ their thing (it's my second-favorite hobby, so I might be biased ). Some of them will never try because the two-plus hours of character generation might as well be a deadbolt lock. Why not have a tiny selection of characters they can pull out and use if they don't want the hassle of making their own? If they like the experience, they'll come around eventually. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: OK, so let's assume we will have 6 sample characters (as big as I would envision a team to be). Add on Raven, Muckman, the Skull, CJ and seven super-powered members of Chaos. That's 17 fully statted characters. Add in two to five different versions of Skull agents, the animatronics (one sheet, I am assuming, not one for each character), and we are easily at 20 pages (I'm assuming we can present modifications or options on two basic versions of Skull agents). Raven, Muckman, CJ, and the Skull are going to have to be written up anyway, no matter what we do. They likely won't be the best examples, as the two "good guys" should be built specifically to be less powerful than the heroes, and CJ should be capable of easily handling any two player characters. So we have to do them, no matter what. The animatronics: Yes; I'm thinking one sheet-fits-all. I'm also thinking it might be a good example for demonstrating "truncated" bad guys: these things don't even need full stats: they are machines. The need to INT, no EGO, no PRE, no STUN, etc. In the design notes that envision for each write up (and sure; there may not be any, but I'd like to think it could happen), making mention of "Takes no STUN" and automaton, etc-- demonstrating that even a bad guy doesn't have to be built from scratch across several hours: just get the important stuff for the scenario in which he is used; HERO is simpler than you think; etc. Maybe not: might do a full sheet. But I'd like to think not. I don't know what to think about "Skull agents." I think as the ideas evolved we ended up with street gangs, actual mobsters, and Chaos. Honestly, I like that better than costumed agents anyway-- not on the whole, mind you, but for this particular adventure: the Skull is relatively new on the scene, he has just begun to grow his power; he has just begun recruiting and creating the sort of huge, masterful schemes that will bring him the sort of staggering resources that a private four-color army would require. I'd do two-- _possibly_ three? Gang bangers and note to the GM that a new description plus any of those three templates is a whole new person. Mobsters? I might have three "types" there, as well: henchman / leg breaker, planner / manager, and possibly a third if wheelman/gadget guy needed to show. At any rate, mobsters and gang bangers don't need to power levels. They need either "regular guns" or "Bone Blasters and defense screens." Upgrade their threat via equipment packages, teamwork, and coordination. And radios. And honestly, I don't have an issue with two gangers, two mobbers; two equipment levels for each. It's not like the players are going to read the sheets to know that there are four guys with the same stats and two that have a different identical stats. New names; new faces equals totally different guys. Though maybe there should be one brawler type (usable with either group of "agents." This would provide, via the GM notes and build discussion, the opportunity to mention "mook rules" and provide a fighter type competent enough to which it would be typically applied. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: That's before we consider having two versions of every character to portray variant power levels(!) although we might be able to show only a few lines changed rather than a second version of the character sheet. That was the plan: "for higher power levels, here are some options: X, Y, Z. Done. Discuss in build notes why it is not necessary to fully-balance NPC (and NPC villain in particular) points; discuss how the GM and players should get together to find some disads to match the increased power level if the character is a PC. Done. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: I commented earlier that we have no SFX budget to worry about, but perhaps our budget constraint is page count. Can we afford the space for 17 fully statted out characters? Should this be one big AP, or several smaller modules in a series? I favour the former. Perhaps it's because I've put in my work day; perhaps I've been struck stupid. You lost me with "AP." I also prefer putting the characters in this book. I prefer doing it in every book (not same characters. Well, maybe Captains Cluebat and Rescue, if we stay in Hepzibah, but whatever villains and _important NPCs who might end up in combat / attacked / whatever would require more than a list of skills-- should also be written up in the adventures in which they (first) appear. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Now, if Chaos characters are left as super-powered, they could be presented as sample characters, constructed on the same rules and guidelines as the PCs (perhaps with occasional notes like "a SuperHero PC limited to a Killing Attack would not be wise, but it can work for a killer SuperVILLAIN". My thoughts exactly. Honestly, I would also include in-story notes that, should a full-rostered Chaos be too much for the players (suppose this guy only gets two or three players?), then the GM should consider taking one or two of the Chaos members off the Chaos roster and save them in reserve as "background villains" for later adventures, or to toss in as single-encounters whenever he needs a man with a gun to get things moving. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Discussing how Raven and Muckman would need to be adjusted to make them suitable PCs could also be considered. Agreed. The Raven would be as simple as removing his .45 and relying entirely on his non-RKA guns. Powering him up might be as simple as adding Danger Sense and +1 SPD, maybe a couple of levels with his guns. There should also be a note that, should the Raven be in use as a PC, anywhere that the story as-written uses the Raven as Captain Cluebat, the story should be modified so that one of the Ravens cultivated informants now takes that roll, contacting the Raven directly with his information. That doesn't change the character significantly, and doesn't rob us of a Captain Cluebat. The information will never be more helpful than this, and will never appear on camera long enough to be anything other than Captain Cluebat, thus no write-up is needed. MuckMan will be more difficult, as he has actual powers, and was beginning to be moulded more into a low-grade "force of nature" rather than a thinking rational being. While he should be easy to "fix" into a PC, we would have to find a way around not having him as Captain Rescue. Though yes; I did originally consider that these two would be part of the ideally-six sample heroes. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: I think our terminology needs to be consistent with the current game rules. DCs have become crucial in that regard, from 4e if not earlier. The intent, to my mind, was to establish a baseline to compare different attacks so we would not have confusion like "how can my 6d6 KA (3d6 HKA + 45 STR) be overpowered? HE has a 75 STR - that's more than twice as many dice! I do not disagree with you, Sir. My obviously poorly-made point was that we should not be relying on this brand-new (and potentially confusing; certainly overwhelming) terminology _exclusively_. Just as an example of a "Build Note:" Line 12: The Raven has a custom-modified .45 automatic that delivers 6 DCs, defined here as 2D6 of Ranged Killing Attack. He has bought this power by declaring the gun to be an obvious Focus, and has decided that it's mounted in a quick-draw mechanic wrist harness, meaning that is is also inaccessible and can't be taken away with a grab maneuver. To demonstrate that the gun uses its own source of power (the bullets), and not the Raven's own personal Endurance, the .45 has been built with the "Reduced END" advantage, bought to the Zero END level. (Yes; I can shorten it up considerably, but it loses friendliness) That's it. We have mention of damage classes; we have mention of the base power and how much, and we explain the modifiers used to build the power. Moreover, we have a visual aid via the sheet where the new player can see how it all comes together. Could we do charges? Yes. Could we do Clips? Yes. I don't want to-- at least not at first-- simply because I believe whole-heartedly that we should keep these early builds _clean_. That, and tracking charges and clips just adds something else to track during combat, and ideally, these will be new players. Remember that not only is a stacked list of modifiers something the players have to cypher through with the build; it's also a stacked list of things of which the new GM has to be aware. Ten powers / equipment items per character, each with eleven modifiers is a hell of a lot for a new guy to keep up with it. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: I'm not sure we have ever had great "look at these guys to guide your PC build" examples. How many people built to the standard of Crusader and Starburst, rather than Green Dragon and Dragonfly? DUDE! I totally did Crusader and Dragonfly. My first handful of made-myself characters were all akin to Crusader (usually without the shield, but not always), simply because-- well, you know I'm not a comic book guy: I learned more about comics _after_ playing Champions than I ever knew before, and I still don't know much. At any rate, not being a comic book guy, it was easier for me to get behind "super-trained super-agent" than it was to get behind "superman." And Dragonfly? Dude! He's a _dragonfly_! There is nothing on this tiny earth cooler than dragonflies, no matter what you may have lead yourself to believe. The night I was invited to play, I was handed the book and told "pick one of these guys to be your character; we're about to start, and everyone else already has characters. We can make you a different character after the game, if you want." I picked Dragonfly. You know: cause he's a dragonfly! Well that went nowhere, but I got all excited. Don't bother replying to any of that; this conversation is already bordering on novella. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Definitely agree that all of the character build details need to be included (which, of course, exacerbates the "page count per character" issue, but we need that detail). I don't mind _that_ kind of page count. That's the reason I pointed to Pyramid in the Sky: complete adventure in under sixty pages, yet a "mini sourcebook" of over sixty pages detailing characters (lots and lots of characters), organizations, etc-- even a couple of small maps-- relevant to the adventure. That sort of detail I don't mind, and if this works out at all, after adventure twelve or so, we should have enough stuff to pull out a near-complete sourcebook on Hepzibah anyway. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: My bias is to avoid statting it up, but I also lean more to "impenetrable dome" than "fatal to touch". Once we decide it does damage, the obvious questions become "how much?" and "how fast?" Agreed, and for all the same reason, especially these two: 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Players being players, someone is going to try to work out how much damage he will take at his maximum flight speed, with his defensive powers cranked to the maximum, to get through whatever thickness we establish the Dome to be. Yep. And the second reason? To borrow the term "players being players" and go one step further: Players being the resourceful and cunning little deviants that an "impossible" challenge tends to inspire them to be, you're going to lose eight or nine play sessions because one or two of them have convinced the entire party that since it's energy, there's an insulator, and all they have to do is find / build / create it. You will _have_ to include a black market, because by the time they give up, it will be positively post-appocalyptic inside the dome. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: First, I think this puts the cart before the horse. As we go through the adventure itself, we should identify questions the players are reasonably likely to ask about the setting, and be ready to answer them. To an extent. Not in minutiae. "Is there an airport?" "Yes." Is a far cry from the size, traffic, daily departure list, restaurants and lounges, combinations for half the lockers, and the names of at least four pilots and one security guard. Following in that vein: 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: We are placing them in a situation where they will reasonably interact a lot with Hepzibah, and its inhabitants (or do you envision the Heroes just ignoring the poor locals, and not questioning whether the town can offer some resources to facilitate getting that dome down, or that every resident will go hide in his basement until/unless the PCs come to call, like those old dungeon crawls?) Considering we were on the opposite sides of this discussion when the "use your skills" chapter was being discussed, you already know my answer to this. Not only do I expect the heroes will interact with the town, I _demand_ it! Not because I want them to explore this brave new fictional world, but because having to lean on other people fosters teamwork and encourages new ideas. It's just a whole lot more fun to have to track down the right lab to use your skills more effectively, make some contacts, have a couple of discussions, etc-- than it is to say "roll a 7 and you'll know everything you need to know." And one more in that vein: 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: If the GM is faced with a dozen player questions, and no answers, how is that likely to go over? Two things that I believe will work fine: 1) maps. They don't have to be much; you don't even need a lot of streets. A random white shape with a few points of interest noted on it-- action locations, a few labs, stores, library, schools, restaurants, hospital, police station(s) and public works; parks-- just a few things. Label those white areas vaguely: industrial district; theater district; warehouse district; Paddy Town; MLK Boulevard (if you need a "bad side of town," anyway. Why did they pick like the _worst_ neighborhoods in every city to put MLK?) Shopping district. 2) Respecting the GM. No; I don't mean just acknowledging his right to do whatever he wants, but respect him as a damned human being with an actual brain, and enough creative spirit to be in an RPG. We expect him to interact as a dozen NPCs at the drop of a hat, but we can't trust that, armed with this map and a brief (very brief) description of a few key locations, he will be able to field answers to the more far-flung questions? It's a bit insulting, I think. Further, the other option is to foresee all the questions-- all the possible questions (which is difficult, as my eight ball only has twelve answers in it) and then tell him "You'll have to commit these hundred-and-twenty pages to memory so you can spout it all out on the spot, or your game is crap and your players are unhappy and your game is damaged and ruined beyond repair." Not only is it insulting, but didn't we start doing this on the premise that today's players don't have that kind of time? I'm pretty sure those superhero games with the 6-to-24 page adventures aren't making people sad, since every superhero game on the market right now is kicking HEROs ass. There's a happy medium, and I say it's giving the GM a set of guidelines and letting him answer appropriately to his situation. Once we say that mcGuffin X can be found at 164 Rufassa Street, we've screwed the GM. If his players are having a hard time finding the mcGuffin, well he can't say "okay, you've finally found it, but it took you nearly four hours. You've still got time to rendezvous with Mister B, but only if you hurry!" He can't do that, because his players are still seven miles from Rufassa Street, kicking in doors in the warehouse district. That's just one example, mind you, but it nicely highlights the problem of "too much information." The standard response-- we all know the standard response-- actually slits its own throat: He's the GM! He can move the mcGuffin anywhere he wants, any time he wants, if it's in the best interest of his game! Well you're damned right he can! Further, he can do it at his table far better and far more perfectly-tailored for his group and their current situation way, way better than any of us can, working with nothing but the possibility that someone at the table _might_ ask this one particular question, and we just don't trust him to answer that. Frankly, since he can do it so much _more_ correctly that we ever could, I say let him do it the first time! He doesn't need me kibitzing. He know's he got a red eight and he knows there are two black nines; let him make the move. So I tend to think "framework." Maps, broadly labeled. Extraneous locations broadly alluded to. Action locations, key people-- reasonably well-detailed. After that, let's have the confidence that he can make a decision or two all by himself. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Those old Hero adventures, and I will bet the others you hold up, did not have sample characters, or characters at multiple power levels. The issue that has been raised, with greater and greater frequency, is that today's gamers have neither the time, nor the inclination, to fill in the rest as needed. They want something they can pop out of the box and play. I chose those examples specifically because they _do_ have sample characters, locations, etc. Note that 1 ) I did not include the Island of Dr D (it had a map, and a couple of enemies, period) and 2) I went out of my way to mention Pyramid in the Sky, which practically was a mini-sourcebook, having enough character write-ups and full bios to populate a campaign. Even then, the adventure was under sixty pages. Multiple power levels is a "recent" thing I've seen popping up in HERO: witness Tiger's bread-and-butter series of updated / upgraded villains, and the substantial power creep of the villains that have been represented yet again in the last couple of editions. it started heavily in 4e with notes "to make him more powerful, do X. To make him less powerful, do Y," and it shows no signs of slacking off (barring the complete collapse of HERO, of course). As it has occurred in essentially _half_ the editions of the game, it seems less-than-unreasonable to offer it to new players, albeit with a bit more coddling than "Change unfathomable build 2 for unfathomable builds D and Q." 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: If our adventure involved, say, breaking in to a secure lab to steal back some stolen tech, we would not really need to fill in details of the surrounding city, or the other competitors to the owners of this lab (1). These details would not be relevant. If this were a city being invaded by aliens, and will either be saved by Our Heroes or a pile of smoldering rubble occupied by the aliens an hour from now, the political infrastructure would be meaningless. (2) If the scenario centered around a disgruntled member of a secret mystic order seeking to steal their artifacts and summon a world-ending daemonic creature, we would need next to no information about the world outside the relevant secret sanctums of that Order, but we would need a lot of members of that Order. (3) (1) Ant-Man Ant-Man worked because _no one_ -- at least on the writing staff-- asked any questions about the world around them. Here's a hint about what would have happened if they had: Ant-Man would have drown his tiny little lungs because plumbing does _not_ work that way. _AT_ _ALL_. Not even _remotely_ that way. Not a little bit. The only thing they got right was that there is water in there. How bad was it? I hated the movie because of it. Seriously. The entire plot hinged on the success of that scheme, and that was so brain-splittingly impossible -- super-powers or no (unless they involved both gills and chlorine filters), the very fact that the rest of the movie wasn't possible without that total crap fest of a scene just ruined the whole thing for me. Looking at it from the perspective of "maybe he just went sub-atomic and slipped through the walls?" It was okay, and the humor did nothing but help. I would think, given your questioning of the how does this happen / how does this work that goes on toward infinite regression, you would have had similar issues with that movie. The super stuff? No problem. Totally on board with shrinking gas and talking to ants microscopic eco suits. Not knowing how plumbing works and hinging your entire movie on it? Gad, that was stupid. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: (2) Avengers Also not the best example of your point about needed an unneeded details, because of the known details: New York, right? I'm told that, like, over two hundred people live there. Where the Hell were they?! An entire skyscraper, populated by the people in this one window office. Neat! "Well, Chief, I don't know how we did it, but we evacuated the most populous city in the country-- the one with the worst traffic infrastructure in the free world-- in only eight minutes. We're just awesome. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: (3) Doctor Strange The movie about the wizard with six month's experience who went on to kick the ass of Satan's grandpa? To address your point, though, we had _two_ members of that mystic order. The Bald Chick Who Died, and the big guy. There were some sparring partners thrown in between. No names, no details, and I couldn't remember a name or a face if the mortgage was riding on it, even before the movie was over. I think "it exists" and "it's kind of hard to find" were the only things we really learned about the order. Nothing else was really coherent about it: Here are magic books. You may read any of them, except for these. No; they're also magic books, but we need a humorous scene where you are forced to steal them magically so the audience knows you're learning. And what good did they do him? He had no special magic or tricks gained from the randomly-forbidden books. I say "randomly," because no matter what excuse is used (I think Harry Potter used the same gag; I'll have to check with the wife), unless there's only one book in the universe with the one unholy spell, I feel certain there's enough magic in the "unforbidden" books to wreck the world three times over, making the idea of "trust you with some but not all" more a hard-to-swallow schlep than anything else. No; I think we did okay making that movie without actually learning any of the things you think we learned. After all, there was an SFX budget, and people came to see stuff get folded and blown up; not to learn about a fictional secret circus. And I suspect that gamers will behave similarly: I came here to use super powers and save lives; not to find out about the Delta Hub or where the Radio Shack used to be. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: But if I want a game where political machinations are used to take over the rulership of a nation, I need to know a lot about that nation's politics and key players. (4) If it's a very insular nation, I may not need to know much, if anything, about the rest of the world. (4) Black Panther The political machinations seem to be "if you want it, fight me for it." And of course, the deep and convoluted "hide the fact that we're rich." Don't get me wrong-- out of your list, it was the only movie I enjoyed, mostly because it was a lot of fun and, like all the marvel movies-- well-lit. (and hearing Forrest Whitaker say "deh pdins will now jab de powah ob de blek pinta stdipped eweh." That was priceless. Yeah; I know: he worked really hard on a convincing accent, and he did an amazing job, but next to an entire cast who just kind of 'winged it,' it came off as silly. Sorry. Not his fault. Just the way it was. ) At any rate, there really weren't any political machinations there, either: it was a revenge story, played out against a pretend political scene of "hide the gold" and filled with special effects. (really cool ones: I have to think that the Sand Table would be the _ultimate_ TTRPG accessory! Man, that was cool! ) It had lots of stuff, but "beat me up to be king" isn't really... well, it's not deep or particularly involved. The answer? Let's run up to some really big guy who _also_ wants to beat him up to become king, and hope he won't stand for the other guy who actually beat the ever-loving hell out him actually... well, being the king he is now legally entitled to be. I suppose that's... _sort of_ a machination? maybe? All this is doing is kind of working to the point I was pushing above: Focus on the story, trust the people playing the game, and they will ultimately fill it with their own perceptions. As their vision of what's really cool is _always_ going to be far cooler (to them, at least) and more personally-rewarding than anything we could force on them, I say we take advantage of it: trust them to wing a thing here and there. Give them a framework that their answers should fit into, for consistency going forward, and let them run with it. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: If I were writing this scenario for my own group, I can likely narrow down what they will ask about, and no big deal if I make it up on the fly for them. But if I am handing it to a rookie GM to play with a random gaming group? Not so much - the scenario needs to be much more complete. I don't agree. I don't disagree, either. Not exactly either. Not exactly-- you know, this isn't just binary, here: it's a matter of "I think differently on this matter." I get where you're coming from; seriously. I do. But I also got where you were coming from with the idea that people want something playable out of the box and I got where you were coming from with people don't have a lot of time and several other places from where you were coming and from where other people were coming and so on---- but all combined-- all of those things combined-- tells me that running everything to detail is _exactly_ the wrong thing to do. I mean, look what it did for HERO's presence on the shelf, or popularity as a game. We ran into details and minutiae so far and so variously that I am willing to be you'd be hard-pressed to remember an occasion where you wish you'd known every single one of those new details. That is to say: it went further than likely _anyone_ ever needed it to. And the people stayed away in record numbers. I don't think repeating that process with an introductory adventure is the way to bring them back. I could be backwards in my thinking, but in summation: we tried that. It went over like a lead balloon. I think we need to do what the still-popular and newly-popular stuff has done: give the GM and the players some tools, but not make them wade through a sourcebook to play an adventure. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: One way to reduce the relevance of Hepzibah's resources and residents would be to do what the MCU typically does (what a lot of comic books would do as well). The Dome rising isn't at, or near, the start of the adventure. It's the start of the finale, and it's an immediate, urgent threat. There's no time to do much more with the residents of Hepzibah than immediate rescue efforts, their politics won't matter as there will be no time for political action and we have to find and deal with the Skull right now, not over the course of several days of investigations and interactions sprawling over the entire town. As I mentioned before, we started out with this premise. I'm okay with it, as I find "strange radiation battery chemicals" during an experimental phase much more satisfying to the creation of supers than I do "this solid, impenetrable object caused certain people to fly and develop eye lasers. Do not use this material for car bumpers or food storage containers." I'm not sure where we ended up with "game starts at domerise; go! But we did. No one voted it down, so that's roughly where I intend to start. I still would like to see at least one scene prior to it going up. Honestly, MuckMan is created because he's investigating the toxic waste that we have presumed was related to the manufacture of the batteries that are being used to power the dome. if nothing else, I think there should be a MuckMan sighting, and perhaps even a "you've been persuaded to help investigate the scene at the Sunset Farm irrigation reservoir" scene where the players can learn of the pollution-- possibly even get a lead or two on its source: find a milk truck being driven by members of the Skulls being pulled up near the pond and emptied into the dried, orange-brown scrub growing uphill of the farm, perhaps. But that's just me. The conversation went elsewhere, and while I am happy to write this up, to keep it as a "group project" sort of thing, I have decided I am not going to dicate the plot or the other characters. I contributed the Raven, but even then, only guidelines: no dictates. On the subject of the Raven: Do we want to write up his bike per the vehicle rules, let it be a simple focus for ground movement, or just "let him have it?" 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: But that's not the adventure we designed. We designed an adventure where the Dome is up, and its impact on the town is relevant, pretty early on. We created a scenario where the town's residents and resources are very much relevant to the game. Perhaps that scope is more than we can reasonably incorporate in a published scenario that needs to consider various likely PC actions, and we should reassess the timeline, and the core of the scenario. fair enough, so long as a consensus either way is reached. I think we've either already lost some interested eyes or are failing to attract more. The view ratio is getting smaller. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Maybe Chaos is not created by the Dome, but by experiments on the energy supply planned to feed the dome (perhaps their powering up occurs when the heroes interfere with those experiments). Maybe Prince A Pal is an attack designed to draw the heroes, and city resources, away from the theft of those last crucial elements needed to raise the Dome - the world outside is carrying on business as usual, and the Skull targets the grand opening, not linked to his plans, much less the Dome, in any way beyond providing a convenient target. When the Dome goes up shortly thereafter, the Skull makes his demands, and the city has an hour to comply. If not, perhaps the loss of voter homes and lives in the outer neighbourhoods will make you more reasonable... Again, if we get a consensus, that's where I'll go with it. Honestly, that writes a bit better than a "lift your spirits party" in a city under siege. I like the party, but given the situation, I would think Icarus Park would be a better venue, as people could do a BYOB with their own grills and whatever might be fixing to go bad in their failing freezers. No need for artificial lighting; no kitchen restrictions, and an easier place to evacuate (no walls) when Chaos shows up (as we've used CJ already at Prince A. Pals during the distraction). If we do this, then I think Chaos should be "powered" prior to the dome raising, perhaps by the Skull intentionally exposing them by posting them as his personal guard while he's messing with the Radiation X material to build his dome-driving batteries. (for what it's worth, this project: creating his own super-pets, would be a valid reason for him to allow the hospital to continue to function and have access to utilities, which I feel is vital: new players aren't going to be jazzed if they can't save the people because the wounded have no hospital to which they can be delivered. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: No time to debate with city council or research tech companies now (that should all have happened before), but perhaps we can get that one last clue we needed from agents just captured to finally piece together the location of the Skull's secret base, so we can get there before he carries out his threat and the population of Hebzibah is markedly reduced. I'd like them to perhaps find his initial research base: maybe where he got started, so they can get some ideas, maybe read some notes-- who knows. I would still like the dome to go up, and the chaos (and grandstanding) that ensures, complete with a final climactic battle once the heroes figure out where is the mcguffin and how to stop it. (for what it's worth, I think it should be more than just "bash it!" Perhaps it's even protected by a mini-dome of some sort, and in the midst of a climactic battle, the team has to figure out how to gain access or shut the thing down _without_ Hulk tactics. 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: I guess it will be a short campaign for our poor tumour-infested PCs, huh? They failed to protect Hepzibah before the scenario even got started. you're mixing worlds. The cancer comment was in response to how great such a disintegration device would be in the real world with regard to waste resources. I agreed with that, with the realization that, at least to the state of California, being born causes cancer; this probably would, too. Still sad... 10 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: Since it doesn't destroy earth and stone, Clodoppus, the Brick of Organic Granite should be able to just walk through, shouldn't he? "No, it's impenetrable" solves that one too. [Mind you, it doesn't help when Hydro Lass tries to seep through just like rainfall does...] A lot of this can also be avoided if the Dome is not around for very long, as I consider it. It doesn't matter as much whether rain, or air, seep through, especially if it would take a few hours for it to do so. i think I agreed with this earlier today. If not, well I still do. And going forward: This will be likely the _last_ such response I make for a while. The two hours this took would have been far more productive actually writing on the adventure. Please understand. Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ruggels Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 I am going to say straight out, we will need at least 20 characters, and if we plan for 5 or 6 players, We will need to make at least 12 example characters, to give folks some choices, even if it's simple like "Male Brick", "Female brick"> Look, how they look is going to be different at the end, from the beginning. If we are going to crowd fund this hypothetical projects, we might as well crowd source here. Even when presenting Write ups of Characters in the Old Rogues Gallery, I would include a villain option so that the powers and abilities could be used. Yes we will need cops, Bystanders, automatons, Gang members, Mooks, and the two BBEGs, but a lot of the percieved value of this is going to be through a mass of character, and character ideas, we haven't seen since the first or second edition, simple, easy characters with minimal back story and no tricks or much efficiency in their builds (Plus lots of full color Character art.) The goal is being an attractive package that can be run fairly quickly out of the box. The scenery, and the maps and details of Hepzibah are necessary to a point, but they don't have to be exhaustive. Unlike 1981,, Google now exists to look stuff up, and we should say as much. Types of characters should be in Sections such as "Friends" with the bystanders, cops and Firemen, and important NPCS, Enemies with The Skull, CJ, The gangs , The mob, and Chaos. Finally the example characters should be at the back with the build notes, asnd a suggestion to test the characters out for them selves on a blank map to practice combat, and to see how different poweres interact with each other. The PLAY should be the attraction. The base minumum would be enough for a Gm and 4 - 6 players to be able to run this over three or four nights (Warn them that combats often take a long time, so plan accordingly), and by the end they are conversqant at how to play Champions, and are THEN curious enough to want to build their own. Also in terms of Plot and Characters, There is no outside help avalaible, and Our Heroes must sove this dome problem with their wits or their fists. Duke Bushido and Amorkca 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 That last part is why I liked the dome scenario: it forces a small, controllable environment for the new GM: a dungeon, as it were, without the dungeon feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: There are power builds in the 6e material (some of which I own. In fact, I mailed Scott my extra copy of CC, as I won't ever be using it) that I have no F'n _clue_ what the Hell they do, and sometimes, even reading the text descriptions just doesn't help. I would not call the "what does this bundle of mechanics do?" conundrum unique to 6e. That doesn't mean we do not want to do better, of course. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: Clean, easy to understand (and briefly explained, just in case) sample characters. I insist. People _need_ them, and given the increased complexity of newer editions, they need them more than they ever needed them before. And I agree. It is simply that I believe a few clean, digestible examples of how to build a character (emphasis on "digestible") are vital to that. To date, I have everything HERO ever did in a boxed set (though I don't have the actual "box" for 3e Champions). Every one of them includes a selection of written-up characters. Not to say we need to model ourselves on a bygone time, but it bears noting that game designers of yore seemed to think a few more examples were a good thing. One of the complaints about the last two editions was that there were no physical guidelines or even hard ideas on where a character should land on the power scale, etc. I'm not sure I'd call the 4e Champions examples of great, well-explained character design. 3e and prior, I recall a lot of adversary writeups. 5e and 6e (and the 4e Rules Set) are more challenged by being written for many genres, much less multiple power levels within a single genre. I think sample characters make sense for this project, on the basis that this is the "Hepzibah Standards" for starting characters. I don't believe they have to be the PCs for the adventure. Taking all of that together, I think we are on the same page for sample characters, and that they will require significant page count. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I would like to include characters that provide 1) utility as easy-to-understand builds new players can use as examples of how the rules work: nothing as complex as the current official write-ups of almost anyone (I think Foxbat is still pretty easy to understand, but I don't have the enemies books for the last two editions, and he wasn't an example in the current rules books). 2) A rough idea of what power level this adventure could be expected to start at without having to throw out concepts that A) they may not yet be comfortable with and B.) players on this very board have complained about as not being particularly helpful with regard to building a reasonably-useful character. 3) Characters that a new GM or new player could potentially use as pre-gen characters if they are not willing to tackle character creation on their own. I'd say these should be in addition to, not a replacement for, character construction guidelines. I would also suggest that, other than "PC Potential", they should also be the same guidelines the villains follow. If we are setting, say, a 10 - 12 DC standard, then Chaos should follow that same spread, perhaps with an occasional outlier with explanations (e.g. this character has a 15 DC attack, but low CV, SPD and defenses). If the players see 12-15d6 being routinely tossed around, their 10-12 DC becomes quite unsatisfactory. Ditto if their abilities are mirrored by the mooks. They need to feel like their characters are Super. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: Raven, Muckman, CJ, and the Skull are going to have to be written up anyway, no matter what we do. They likely won't be the best examples, as the two "good guys" should be built specifically to be less powerful than the heroes, and CJ should be capable of easily handling any two player characters. So we have to do them, no matter what. Agree that the adventure characters have to be included. That's why tacking on a dozen potential PCs will add a lot of page count. I don't consider any of the above PC material, but Raven and Muckman specifically make good "discuss why they are poor PC choices/what would have to change to make them PC material" examples. Why does CJ need to be personally combat-capable? His powers need not include direct combat-capability for him to serve his in-story function, do they? 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: The animatronics: Yes; I'm thinking one sheet-fits-all. I'm also thinking it might be a good example for demonstrating "truncated" bad guys: these things don't even need full stats: they are machines. The need to INT, no EGO, no PRE, no STUN, etc. In the design notes that envision for each write up (and sure; there may not be any, but I'd like to think it could happen), making mention of "Takes no STUN" and automaton, etc-- demonstrating that even a bad guy doesn't have to be built from scratch across several hours: just get the important stuff for the scenario in which he is used; HERO is simpler than you think; etc. Maybe not: might do a full sheet. But I'd like to think not. I think an abbreviated w/u with the abilities spelled out does the trick. I think the stat block itself should demonstrate you don't need a full built-out sheet for every character, and we do not need to add narrative noting this. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I don't know what to think about "Skull agents." I think as the ideas evolved we ended up with street gangs, actual mobsters, and Chaos. Honestly, I like that better than costumed agents anyway-- not on the whole, mind you, but for this particular adventure: the Skull is relatively new on the scene, he has just begun to grow his power; he has just begun recruiting and creating the sort of huge, masterful schemes that will bring him the sort of staggering resources that a private four-color army would require. I'd do two-- _possibly_ three? Gang bangers and note to the GM that a new description plus any of those three templates is a whole new person. Mobsters? I might have three "types" there, as well: henchman / leg breaker, planner / manager, and possibly a third if wheelman/gadget guy needed to show. At any rate, mobsters and gang bangers don't need to power levels. They need either "regular guns" or "Bone Blasters and defense screens." Upgrade their threat via equipment packages, teamwork, and coordination. And radios. Is CC entirely lacking in mook stat blocks that we could use for both the mobsters and the gangs? If we can use those stat blocks and tack on equipment as appropriate, why not do that? How will the mob be used, in-game, different from the gangers, to need different stats and writeups? 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: Perhaps it's because I've put in my work day; perhaps I've been struck stupid. You lost me with "AP." AP = Adventure Path = the model pioneered by Paizo with D&D, then Pathfinder. A series of large adventure books tying in to a campaign. A typical vol 1 would take 1st level PCs to 4th level. This is a lot easier in the d20 model since we know characters go from L1 to L20. How many xp awards would that equate to in Hero? How much xp should we expect our PCs to earn over the course of the book? That is definitely something to be added at the end, not considered now. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: Just as an example of a "Build Note:" Line 12: The Raven has a custom-modified .45 automatic that delivers 6 DCs, defined here as 2D6 of Ranged Killing Attack. He has bought this power by declaring the gun to be an obvious Focus, and has decided that it's mounted in a quick-draw mechanic wrist harness, meaning that is is also inaccessible and can't be taken away with a grab maneuver. To demonstrate that the gun uses its own source of power (the bullets), and not the Raven's own personal Endurance, the .45 has been built with the "Reduced END" advantage, bought to the Zero END level. (Yes; I can shorten it up considerably, but it loses friendliness) That's it. We have mention of damage classes; we have mention of the base power and how much, and we explain the modifiers used to build the power. Moreover, we have a visual aid via the sheet where the new player can see how it all comes together. Could we do charges? Yes. Could we do Clips? Yes. I don't want to-- at least not at first-- simply because I believe whole-heartedly that we should keep these early builds _clean_. That, and tracking charges and clips just adds something else to track during combat, and ideally, these will be new players. Remember that not only is a stacked list of modifiers something the players have to cypher through with the build; it's also a stacked list of things of which the new GM has to be aware. Ten powers / equipment items per character, each with eleven modifiers is a hell of a lot for a new guy to keep up with it. So that's a full paragraph to describe a gun. And it is a gun different from what they will see in any other writeup, doubtless including CC. The happy medium is X charges, or an explanation ("the customization has eliminated significant reloading time, and the Raven is assumed to always have enough ammo - he is not intended as a combatant anyway"). BTW, I would stick to Raven and Muck-Man as non-PCs. Discussing why not is great, but there's no reason to build PC versions as well. I would not want a similar para for every item in every build on every character, but a few for illustration seems reasonable. Doing it for every one brings me to your later question of how insulting to the intelligence of the reader. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: To an extent. Not in minutiae. "Is there an airport?" "Yes." Is a far cry from the size, traffic, daily departure list, restaurants and lounges, combinations for half the lockers, and the names of at least four pilots and one security guard. They can't fly in or out and have no reason to interact with the airport, so what more would we need? Again, we need to assess what they will likely expect to interact with in the adventure, assuming we do not expect to just lead them around by the nose. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: 2) Respecting the GM. No; I don't mean just acknowledging his right to do whatever he wants, but respect him as a damned human being with an actual brain, and enough creative spirit to be in an RPG. We expect him to interact as a dozen NPCs at the drop of a hat, but we can't trust that, armed with this map and a brief (very brief) description of a few key locations, he will be able to field answers to the more far-flung questions? It's a bit insulting, I think. I don't find a paragraph to explain a gun very flattering to his reading comprehension either. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: Also not the best example of your point about needed an unneeded details, because of the known details: New York, right? I'm told that, like, over two hundred people live there. Where the Hell were they?! The point you seem to be doing your very best to ignore is that the structure of the movie created no reason for the PCs to interact with them to any significant extent. and no time for such interactions. We have chosen a premise which locks them in for an extended period. You stat up and write up what you need. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: To address your point, though, we had _two_ members of that mystic order. The Bald Chick Who Died, and the big guy. There were some sparring partners thrown in between. No names, no details, and I couldn't remember a name or a face if the mortgage was riding on it, even before the movie was over. I recall Hamir, Mordo and Wong off the top of my head, as well as the Ancient One and the antagonist. But unlike our scenario, they did not develop almost a dozen named opponents to go with them. 10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: The political machinations seem to be "if you want it, fight me for it." And of course, the deep and convoluted "hide the fact that we're rich." Don't get me wrong-- out of your list, it was the only movie I enjoyed, mostly because it was a lot of fun and, like all the marvel movies We saw, I believe, three other tribes who declined to field a challenger, plus M'Baku. Tossing all five factions out in a game means that the PC may choose any or all of them to seek assistance from, so the GM needs enough details of each to make that work. We don't get to script our PCs like the moviemaker sends T'challa to M'Baku. And there were several developed characters in T'challa's group of confidantes. LATER FOR THE ACTUAL GAME STUFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: And I suspect that gamers will behave similarly: I came here to use super powers and save lives; not to find out about the Delta Hub or where the Radio Shack used to be. You know, I thought that I had been pretty clear that I was discussing the types of details that are relevant to the PC's trapped under the Dome with a population which is in danger, and knows it, for a lengthy period of time. Can they access a helicopter? Are there national guard, police SWAT teams, etc. which can actually assist? What is the political situation, and how will the town leaders address the crisis? I don't know when you think I suggested we needed the airline itineraries or staff lists. I am not the one who suggested the menu at a local eatery, nor scoping out the dozen different pun-based characters represented by animatronic robots. I am suggesting that having answers for players asking "can we get these resources to help us along?", or "what is the town council's response to the Skull's ultimatum, or even "did all the citizens uniformly decide to hide in their basements? would make this scenario more complete. I don't ask that question when my character is foiling a bank robbery - the police are likely on their way but a minute is 5 turns from now; town council and the remaining citizens don't know the robbery is happening. I would, however, expect to have a pretty decent layout of the bank, and if there is a security team, they are likely scoped out. But that is the actual combat location. Noncombat will need similar delineation. If we expect them to investigate the tech companies, we should have some intel for the GM about the tech companies. I do not expect them to investigate the local agriculture community, so I am not suggesting we detail that. I am suggesting it is likely time to dig into the adventure and, from that, draw out what will need to be detailed. A lot of that detail may be in the section after the robbery - such as details of the tech industry, and what the PCs may encounter if they investigate it. The organization and placement of these details will develop over time. Maybe we will decide we want to segregate it from the adventure sections (especially if it will be referenced from multiple points in the adventure) or maybe we just refer back to it as relevant. 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: All this is doing is kind of working to the point I was pushing above: Focus on the story, trust the people playing the game, and they will ultimately fill it with their own perceptions. As their vision of what's really cool is _always_ going to be far cooler (to them, at least) and more personally-rewarding than anything we could force on them, I say we take advantage of it: trust them to wing a thing here and there. Give them a framework that their answers should fit into, for consistency going forward, and let them run with it. At the extreme, trust them to design cooler characters than we will (no need for any PCs or NPCs), and a cooler plot. Just give them the game rules and let them fly. They will end up winging plenty that we don't think of, and we are not going to be able to script interaction with the various NPCs or NPC factions in any case. But they need these factions, just like they need the combat opponents and the terrain on which combat will occur, if we are to provide a playable adventure. Now, if a city this size should have a couple hundred National Guard and several SWAT teams, how big a threat are the gangs? As a player, I am seeing "declare a state of emergency, activate the national guard and use them, plus the SWAT teams, to clear the low-level crooks out of the way" as a pretty reasonable approach if the whole city is trapped under this dome with Skull Gangers moving about. Will that work? Won't it? Who do the PCs need to talk to to move it forward? Does the local leadership take this action on their own and the PCs can just stay home and watch it on TV? The GM does not need the names, addressed and next of kin of each cop, national guardsman and member of the reserves. But he does need more than "umm, well, the map shows seven police stations and a National Guard HQ". The GM needs enough details to let the story go forward, and not get bogged down in blind alleys. The premise of this scenario, the more I look at it, really leads to those blind alleys. You commented that you liked the dome because it limited the PCs choices. I don't think it does, not meaningfully. With the action in Hepzibah, I doubt they would be flying off to South America, dome or not. Hence my comment that, maybe, we need to reduce the period in which the whole town knows about, and is effectively a participant in, the scenario, thus reducing the people who are relevant and can be accessed in a timeframe that will allow them to make a difference. 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I don't think repeating that process with an introductory adventure is the way to bring them back. I could be backwards in my thinking, but in summation: we tried that. It went over like a lead balloon. I would say not publishing adventures is the issue we are trying to address. The ones that you and I remember, and love, several of which have been mentioned upthread, were not sellers in the broad RPG community, so they stopped getting published. What adventures really sell? From what I see, those 64 page+, 6 volume adventure paths. And virtually every one devotes considerable space to the locale where the adventures take place, and the notable personages with whom the PCs are likely to interact. We have created a situation where, logically, they are interacting with a huge portion of a metropolitan city. Revising that premise avoids the need to stat out the many components of the city that become highly relevant if the city is Domed for an extended period, but don't have time to be relevant if it is domed for a few hours, under threat of destruction. Of course, if we really want a 6 volume adventure path, this one could start with the Dome going up, and involve a series of investigations and encounters that, after several weeks of game play, has introduced our heroes to many factions in the city and, maybe, enabled them to locate and defeat the immediate plans of an Underboss, secure a food and water supply for the medium term, and introduced them to some key players in city leadership. Volume 2 of Under the Dome would build on that until, in Volume 6, our PC's, by now about 200 xp more powerful than the starting characters, finally confront the Skull in his hidden base, where they will either free Hepzibah from its dome, or see it utterly destroyed. But I don't think our goal is the 6 Volume Under The Dome Adventure Path. With that in mind, I think events need to happen faster, in part in order to constrain the areas which need to be developed because, the longer the city is domed, the more factions under the dome become relevant. 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: On the subject of the Raven: Do we want to write up his bike per the vehicle rules, let it be a simple focus for ground movement, or just "let him have it?" Because it is a "training scenario", I am inclined to say "follow the rules and provide this sample vehicle". Let me guess - CC has no motorcycle we can just customize a bit. OR we say that Raven gets around on a souped-up motorbike, but it never appears in combat, and has negligible out of combat effects (the game would not change if he took the subway), so it is not statted out. We could also stat it out in a later adventure if it did become relevant/we wanted to use it. 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: If we do this, then I think Chaos should be "powered" prior to the dome raising, perhaps by the Skull intentionally exposing them by posting them as his personal guard while he's messing with the Radiation X material to build his dome-driving batteries. (for what it's worth, this project: creating his own super-pets, would be a valid reason for him to allow the hospital to continue to function and have access to utilities, which I feel is vital: new players aren't going to be jazzed if they can't save the people because the wounded have no hospital to which they can be delivered. Whether it is important that the hospitals remain powered depends on how long the siege goes on. If the hospitals have power, but nothing else does, this seems like a very logical area for the Supers to investigate. I thought, however, that we had wind and solar power, so the electricity kept flowing. You may recall I asked about the utilities upthread because, as a player, I would want to know whether they are on if we're under this dome for hours or days rather than minutes. Another decision I think we have to make is the prevalence of SuperPowered people (whatever we call them). If this is the typical Champions/Marvel/DC universe, there's a superteam on every street corner so **ho hum just another group of superpowered thugs; maybe we can squeeze them in to the paper if it is a slow news day** But that is not the MCU. If superpowers are rare to nonexistent, then the emergence of MuckMan and of a team of superpowered gangbangers is a much bigger deal. But why does the Skull pick people so uncontrollable? I would think, if he can figure out how to power up seven people, either he would be using them as resources individually (perhaps gathered later as a team to act as a strike force against the PCs), or they are so out of control that he just causes them to power up somewhere they will create the most fear, consistent with his plans. I agree with byproducts of the experimentation causing superpowers before the Dome goes up. This leads to more investigations by the heroes, I would expect. If we are working with a "Supers are only now emerging" model, like MCU, then I would drop the idea that they were a gang before gaining their powers. We can make them "sub-bosses" early on, with the PCs encountering only one with some agents on this project, then that project. They might capture some. The Skull brings them together late in the scenario, maybe as he is ready to raise the dome, or right when he does, and sends the remaining ones (not captured already) out to take out those pesky PCs and then cause as much havoc as they can. In fact, maybe they are now becoming unstable (similar side effects to those faced by the Skull, worse because they lack his strength of will) so the super-powered mobsters/gang members they faced before as rational underbosses are now less rational to crazed, and ready to take on the team name Chaos. This works perfectly for the Skull, as their loss of focus is making them a hazard to his own plans, so if he loses a few of them to take down some or all of the heroes, that's win. SIDEBAR: How to use Chaos - eg use enough members to make a decent threat to the PCs, probably equal numbers or add one because we will involve MuckMan in a combat role as well. Leave the ones the heroes already caught locked up, where possible, unless one really played well off one or more PCs. 18 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I'd like them to perhaps find his initial research base: maybe where he got started, so they can get some ideas, maybe read some notes-- who knows. I would still like the dome to go up, and the chaos (and grandstanding) that ensures, complete with a final climactic battle once the heroes figure out where is the mcguffin and how to stop it. (for what it's worth, I think it should be more than just "bash it!" Perhaps it's even protected by a mini-dome of some sort, and in the midst of a climactic battle, the team has to figure out how to gain access or shut the thing down _without_ Hulk tactics. I like the initial research base as a climax to one chapter. We've been focused on three Acts for a while now. Perhaps the first can close at that initial research base - a minor victory for the PCs; a horde of Skull agents (no superpowered opponents to date, and these Skull agents are the first ones with the good gear). Second Act closes with the distraction at Prince A Pals. It is filled out with investigations and encounters with more agents, in new locations, sometimes lead by a superpowered Chaos member (I am thinking use three Chaos members so we will have at least four they have never seen available later). Third Act raises the Dome, sees the Attack of Chaos in an effort to take out the PC's once and for all and moves into a race against time to get to the Skull's hidden base and stoop him from crushing the town an hour after his ultimatum (which he issues shortly after the dome rises, either just after or immediately before Chaos attacks the PCs). BTW, perhaps the various roadblocks and blind alleys serve to illustrate why published adventures are not so easy. 14 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said: I am going to say straight out, we will need at least 20 characters, and if we plan for 5 or 6 players, We will need to make at least 12 example characters, to give folks some choices, even if it's simple like "Male Brick", "Female brick"> I'd like to see the potential PCs be pretty generic, which probably means they don't even have to have assigned genders. A dozen is a lot. I'd consider about 8 (most games seeming to be written for 4 players or so these days). That still leaves the last player in a group of 6 a choice from 3. Perhaps these could even be somewhat modular. For example, we have our Brick scoped out with, say, 350 of 400 points spent (picking numbers out of the air). We then have some "packages" which could be for a variety of characters, worth 25 points or 50 points. These could be "skills packages" like an investigator, "minor powers" packages (like making the character amphibious), etc. Add two 25 point'ers or one 50 point'er. Suggest the ones for each sample character, but text block so they are easy to swap out. Similarly, some Complications are selected (probably physical ones), and others are left for selection from a group of choices so there is some personality customization. What do we need? I'd say: - Brick - Martial artist - Blaster - Speedster - Flyer - WeaponsMaster What else? I am deliberately avoiding Powered Armor/Gadgetry due to the issues OIF, IIF and OIHID are inclined to create. Maybe WeaponsMaster should be similarly avoided. Maybe: - Flying Brick - Growth/Shrinking metamorph - Stretching Metamorph 14 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said: Yes we will need cops, Bystanders, automatons, Gang members, Mooks, As much as possible, I would leverage CC for these. 14 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said: Also in terms of Plot and Characters, There is no outside help avalaible, and Our Heroes must sove this dome problem with their wits or their fists. This, to me, is a "world setting choice" as well. Rather than saying "well, all the other SuperDudes are tied up at the moment", why not go with "there are no well-known SuperPowered characters - the world is much like our own in that regard". That makes the PCs special - and even more Super. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ruggels Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: You know, I thought that I had been pretty clear that I was discussing the types of details that are relevant to the PC's trapped under the Dome with a population which is in danger, and knows it, for a lengthy period of time. Can they access a helicopter? Are there national guard, police SWAT teams, etc. which can actually assist? What is the political situation, and how will the town leaders address the crisis? All good questions. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: I don't know when you think I suggested we needed the airline itineraries or staff lists. I am not the one who suggested the menu at a local eatery, nor scoping out the dozen different pun-based characters represented by animatronic robots. I am suggesting that having answers for players asking "can we get these resources to help us along?", or "what is the town council's response to the Skull's ultimatum, or even "did all the citizens uniformly decide to hide in their basements? would make this scenario more complete. Good point 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: I don't ask that question when my character is foiling a bank robbery - the police are likely on their way but a minute is 5 turns from now; town council and the remaining citizens don't know the robbery is happening. I would, however, expect to have a pretty decent layout of the bank, and if there is a security team, they are likely scoped out. But that is the actual combat location. Not too be to topical, But going back to the beginning, other than the use as an introductory combat, Why not make it something less "cliche'd" than a simple bank robbery where "reasonable people" will shy away" and let the police deal with it, and instead maybe an active shooter situation in a Mall, where the characters already are? Be the ones to opublically take down the threat, with plenty of witnesses and Cel Pone footage. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Noncombat will need similar delineation. If we expect them to investigate the tech companies, we should have some intel for the GM about the tech companies. I do not expect them to investigate the local agriculture community, so I am not suggesting we detail that. I am suggesting it is likely time to dig into the adventure and, from that, draw out what will need to be detailed. A lot of that detail may be in the section after the robbery - such as details of the tech industry, and what the PCs may encounter if they investigate it. The organization and placement of these details will develop over time. Maybe we will decide we want to segregate it from the adventure sections (especially if it will be referenced from multiple points in the adventure) or maybe we just refer back to it as relevant. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: At the extreme, trust them to design cooler characters than we will (no need for any PCs or NPCs), and a cooler plot. Just give them the game rules and let them fly. Unfortunately, that won't work. We are dealing with , at best, people coming in from D&D 5e, and at worst, No experience what so ever, and as such we dont have to design characters, as playable examples. we need to think in ways that do not rely on our 35+ years of experience with the system. So, example characters. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: They will end up winging plenty that we don't think of, and we are not going to be able to script interaction with the various NPCs or NPC factions in any case. But they need these factions, just like they need the combat opponents and the terrain on which combat will occur, if we are to provide a playable adventure. Now, if a city this size should have a couple hundred National Guard and several SWAT teams, how big a threat are the gangs? As a player, I am seeing "declare a state of emergency, activate the national guard and use them, plus the SWAT teams, to clear the low-level crooks out of the way" as a pretty reasonable approach if the whole city is trapped under this dome with Skull Gangers moving about. Will that work? Won't it? Who do the PCs need to talk to to move it forward? Does the local leadership take this action on their own and the PCs can just stay home and watch it on TV? More good questions, What is the Skull going to do whehn the activate the guard and the Sheriff's Department? 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: The GM does not need the names, addressed and next of kin of each cop, national guardsman and member of the reserves. But he does need more than "umm, well, the map shows seven police stations and a National Guard HQ". Exactly. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: The GM needs enough details to let the story go forward, and not get bogged down in blind alleys. The premise of this scenario, the more I look at it, really leads to those blind alleys. You commented that you liked the dome because it limited the PCs choices. I don't think it does, not meaningfully. With the action in Hepzibah, I doubt they would be flying off to South America, dome or not. The Dome is conceptual. as it keeps the participants thinking of the resources and distances available to them within the Dome. It mentally focuses the action and location for the participants. Yes, we need a basic map. Yes, we need detail Maps for the set piece battles. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Hence my comment that, maybe, we need to reduce the period in which the whole town knows about, and is effectively a participant in, the scenario, thus reducing the people who are relevant and can be accessed in a timeframe that will allow them to make a difference. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: I would say not publishing adventures is the issue we are trying to address. The ones that you and I remember, and love, several of which have been mentioned upthread, were not sellers in the broad RPG community, so they stopped getting published. What adventures really sell? From what I see, those 64 page+, 6 volume adventure paths. And virtually every one devotes considerable space to the locale where the adventures take place, and the notable personages with whom the PCs are likely to interact. We have created a situation where, logically, they are interacting with a huge portion of a metropolitan city. The Model was, yes, these. We may also need to evaluate other company's similar products for D20 style games, and even look back at GURPS books. Thugh I think Four Volumes wouled be one to aim at here. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Revising that premise avoids the need to stat out the many components of the city that become highly relevant if the city is Domed for an extended period, but don't have time to be relevant if it is domed for a few hours, under threat of destruction. Of course, if we really want a 6 volume adventure path, this one could start with the Dome going up, and involve a series of investigations and encounters that, after several weeks of game play, has introduced our heroes to many factions in the city and, maybe, enabled them to locate and defeat the immediate plans of an Underboss, secure a food and water supply for the medium term, and introduced them to some key players in city leadership. Volume 2 of Under the Dome would build on that until, in Volume 6, our PC's, by now about 200 xp more powerful than the starting characters, finally confront the Skull in his hidden base, where they will either free Hepzibah from its dome, or see it utterly destroyed. But I don't think our goal is the 6 Volume Under The Dome Adventure Path. With that in mind, I think events need to happen faster, in part in order to constrain the areas which need to be developed because, the longer the city is domed, the more factions under the dome become relevant. I was thinking that "The Dome" was the first Volume. Each Subsequent volume would build on the previous one, but I think we need to hammer out the first one. Not sure, though,, at the minimum, we need one, that is mostly complete, and it comes in the hypothetical box with Champions Complete. (along with Dice and other materials.). 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Because it is a "training scenario", I am inclined to say "follow the rules and provide this sample vehicle". Let me guess - CC has no motorcycle we can just customize a bit. OR we say that Raven gets around on a souped-up motorbike, but it never appears in combat, and has negligible out of combat effects (the game would not change if he took the subway), so it is not statted out. We could also stat it out in a later adventure if it did become relevant/we wanted to use it. That's kind of the opposite of what i imagine, it's "Training" only in the sense it's an introductory. It may be necessary to stat up a police car, a truck, and Raven's Motorcycle. but tyhe Stat blocks would come up in the relevant description. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Whether it is important that the hospitals remain powered depends on how long the siege goes on. If the hospitals have power, but nothing else does, this seems like a very logical area for the Supers to investigate. I thought, however, that we had wind and solar power, so the electricity kept flowing. You may recall I asked about the utilities upthread because, as a player, I would want to know whether they are on if we're under this dome for hours or days rather than minutes. This is why I want to have my Film director Friend have a look and set up the pacing. How long is each act, What should be in each act? He knows well enough not to dip his toes into Hero mechanics and combat. I just want him to help us structure the thing, and also deal with the "What happenes if the heroes lose", portion of each set piece battle, and what needs to be done to salvage the story. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: Another decision I think we have to make is the prevalence of SuperPowered people (whatever we call them). If this is the typical Champions/Marvel/DC universe, there's a superteam on every street corner so **ho hum just another group of superpowered thugs; maybe we can squeeze them in to the paper if it is a slow news day** But that is not the MCU. If superpowers are rare to nonexistent, then the emergence of MuckMan and of a team of superpowered gangbangers is a much bigger deal. These are the first heroes people have heard about, in a world very like our own. The First Iron man Movie 10 years ago started it, with just an ever so slight cgloss of super tech here and there, over contemporary events. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: I'd like to see the potential PCs be pretty generic, which probably means they don't even have to have assigned genders. A dozen is a lot. I'd consider about 8 (most games seeming to be written for 4 players or so these days). That still leaves the last player in a group of 6 a choice from 3. Perhaps these could even be somewhat modular. For example, we have our Brick scoped out with, say, 350 of 400 points spent (picking numbers out of the air). We then have some "packages" which could be for a variety of characters, worth 25 points or 50 points. These could be "skills packages" like an investigator, "minor powers" packages (like making the character amphibious), etc. Add two 25 point'ers or one 50 point'er. Suggest the ones for each sample character, but text block so they are easy to swap out. Similarly, some Complications are selected (probably physical ones), and others are left for selection from a group of choices so there is some personality customization. What do we need? I'd say: - Brick - Martial artist - Blaster - Speedster - Flyer - WeaponsMaster What else? I am deliberately avoiding Powered Armor/Gadgetry due to the issues OIF, IIF and OIHID are inclined to create. Maybe WeaponsMaster should be similarly avoided. Maybe: - Flying Brick - Growth/Shrinking metamorph - Stretching Metamorph *I would almost say the opposite tack. Fairly detailed characters, with a background paragraph each, and not as much falling into the typical Hero Games (tm) Archetypes, but more as examples of a "Dangerworthy"< useable, heroic character. Have them as not just "build" Examples" but "Character Examples, that people can play, that would not be out of place if two or three people built their own and the rest used the Pregenerateds. What sort of folks do we see in the movies? Powered armor suits, Pure bricks. brick/Martial artists, energy blasters (Many with flight), Illusionists, Telekinetics, superspies, and the like. I mean building Expies of early Career MCU heroes would work, as well. Remember, new players have no idea about how Hero settles into efficient build patterns yet. 1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said: As much as possible, I would leverage CC for these. This, to me, is a "world setting choice" as well. Rather than saying "well, all the other SuperDudes are tied up at the moment", why not go with "there are no well-known SuperPowered characters - the world is much like our own in that regard". That makes the PCs special - and even more Super. Agreed,, No previous Lore, No other super being, yet. (other than maybe an elevated talk about UFO's, which may be foreshadowing for the next "movie" adventure). Everything rests on the shoulders of our new Heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: Not too be to topical, But going back to the beginning, other than the use as an introductory combat, Why not make it something less "cliche'd" than a simple bank robbery where "reasonable people" will shy away" and let the police deal with it, and instead maybe an active shooter situation in a Mall, where the characters already are? Be the ones to opublically take down the threat, with plenty of witnesses and Cel Pone footage. If it is to tie in to the plot, I'd say a robbery of a high tech company getting more materials rather than a bank robbery. But someone hit the alarm, and now we have the crooks fleeing through a crowded area (why not a mall at the ground floor of Tech Building?). The purposes of this scene: - basic combat to learn the system; - demonstrate how powerful the heroes are; - reveal the heroes to the populace; - give the heroes their first hint of what is going on, but perhaps not much to follow up on. 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: Unfortunately, that won't work. We are dealing with , at best, people coming in from D&D 5e, and at worst, No experience what so ever, and as such we dont have to design characters, as playable examples. we need to think in ways that do not rely on our 35+ years of experience with the system. So, example characters. If it would work, we wouldn't need the scenario at all. Sample characters make sense to me, as long as they do not force out other, important elements for pagecount reasons. 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: More good questions, What is the Skull going to do whehn the activate the guard and the Sheriff's Department? Logical questions for players to ask. Potentially avoided if the Dome is up for a couple of hours instead of days/weeks - they would still be mobilizing an hour later, when the Skull starts taking out large parts of the city. 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: I was thinking that "The Dome" was the first Volume. Each Subsequent volume would build on the previous one, but I think we need to hammer out the first one. Not sure, though,, at the minimum, we need one, that is mostly complete, and it comes in the hypothetical box with Champions Complete. (along with Dice and other materials.). I like this as one large adventure, compete in itself. That means that everything we need must fit in one book. 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: That's kind of the opposite of what i imagine, it's "Training" only in the sense it's an introductory. It may be necessary to stat up a police car, a truck, and Raven's Motorcycle. but the Stat blocks would come up in the relevant description. Again - is there nothing in Champions Complete that we can draw on? 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: These are the first heroes people have heard about, in a world very like our own. The First Iron man Movie 10 years ago started it, with just an ever so slight cgloss of super tech here and there, over contemporary events. Agreed,, No previous Lore, No other super being, yet. (other than maybe an elevated talk about UFO's, which may be foreshadowing for the next "movie" adventure). Everything rests on the shoulders of our new Heroes. You and I seem to be on the same page in this regard. 16 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said: *I would almost say the opposite tack. Fairly detailed characters, with a background paragraph each, and not as much falling into the typical Hero Games (tm) Archetypes, but more as examples of a "Dangerworthy"< useable, heroic character. Have them as not just "build" Examples" but "Character Examples, that people can play, that would not be out of place if two or three people built their own and the rest used the Pregenerateds. What sort of folks do we see in the movies? Powered armor suits, Pure bricks. brick/Martial artists, energy blasters (Many with flight), Illusionists, Telekinetics, superspies, and the like. I mean building Expies of early Career MCU heroes would work, as well. Remember, new players have no idea about how Hero settles into efficient build patterns yet. I wasn't really thinking Hero Archetypes so much as Supers Archetypes. I avoided TK due to the Skull's power set. Looking to my list: What do we need? I'd say: - Brick: EXAMPLES Hulk, Thor, Aquaman, Wonder Woman - Martial artist EXAMPLES: Black Widow, Captain America, Batman - Blaster EXAMPLES: Captain Marvel, Cyborg, - Speedster EXAMPLES: Flash, Quicksilver - Flyer EXAMPLES: Falcon, Wasp - WeaponsMaster EXAMPLES: Hawkeye, Green Arrow What else? I am deliberately avoiding Powered Armor/Gadgetry due to the issues OIF, IIF and OIHID are inclined to create. Maybe WeaponsMaster should be similarly avoided. Maybe: - Flying Brick EXAMPLES: Superman - Growth/Shrinking metamorph EXAMPLES: Ant-Man - Stretching Metamorph EXAMPLES: Elongated Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Defense For Putting Up The Dome Early In The Adventure: The reason the Skull activates the dome up early is this: he wants to savor the chaos caused by the dome. Itis not that thoes under it will run out of air (Yes, air can go in/out, but thoes who can turn themselves into air are still blocked. Is there a reason? Yes, cause we say so. No other logic is needed.) When he feals things are getting 'back to normal, he starts the next step in the plan. Repeat till he feals ready to make his ultimatum and threaten to shrink it till nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 I see the merits in having the dome up early. However, this also requires detailing the city and its inhabitants in considerable detail, for the reasons discussed above. I see why the Skull wants to activate it as rapidly as possible. That does not make him capable of doing so. In Infinity War, Thanos would much rather have snapped his fingers and wiped out half the galaxy during the opening credits, but the authors wanted a longer movie, so they did not give him the resources to do so at the start of the movie. Either approach could make for a solid adventure, but they carry different requirements for what is presented to the players and the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Hugh Neilson said: I see the merits in having the dome up early. However, this also requires detailing the city and its inhabitants in considerable detail, for the reasons discussed above. I see why the Skull wants to activate it as rapidly as possible. That does not make him capable of doing so. In Infinity War, Thanos would much rather have snapped his fingers and wiped out half the galaxy during the opening credits, but the authors wanted a longer movie, so they did not give him the resources to do so at the start of the movie. Either approach could make for a solid adventure, but they carry different requirements for what is presented to the players and the GM. Is there a middle ground? And when would be a great time to put it up? At end of act 1? At end of act 2? Beginning of act 3? What would tie act 1 and act 2 to act 3 then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Once the Dome is up for a significant period of time, moving beyond an immediate threat, the resources of the town, including its residents, become relevant. If it's up long enough for the heroes to undertake investigations, then we need to consider all avenues they are likely to consider in those investigations and all resources they might consider trying to bring to bear. As well, we need to assess what the residents are doing, once we get a timeframe long enough that the answer is not "panicking at imminent doom". A city full of people is not likely to all cower in their respective basements for a couple of days waiting for what will happen next. The local leaders aren't just going to sit around doing nothing, nor are the police, national guard, etc. so we need to know who is Under the Dome and what actions they are likely to take, then assess both how these actions may impact the PCs and how the PCs might influence these actions. Practically, a lengthy period of the Dome up creates a much more investigation/interaction focused scenario than an immediate threat which requires an immediate solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Ok. There is no National Guard inside the city. I live in Milwaukee. There is no National Guard in Milwaukee. Might have to google it to make sure I am right, but most cities don't have a National Guard base in it. Edit: Seems I am wrong. Looks like they consider the 128th Air Refueling Wing part of the Air National Guard. Which only shows that Milwaukee is an important city. I doubt before the energy boom that nobody would consider Hepzibah 'important' for a National Guard base. That at least takes care of one thorn. The Guard will gather and they will try to blast the walls from the outside. Till the Skull demistrates his might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ruggels Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 So folks, it looks like this may not be an idle intellectual excercise. but this could be the start of something for the new Hero Initiative. See the following: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Humm... I wonder if I can create an enimies book, or am I only limited to adventures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I know the shear number of villain characters might seem a lot, but we do have three products to fill, and we can spread them out to what is needed. So, let's do so... What we need for episode one: Skull GB Solider Skull GB Warrior CyberJack (for the data stealing plot) Episode two: As above, plus Prince A Pal Automatronic Chaos members (about seven, but maybe one physical incomplete sheat and a "add this to generic sheet for Haywire") Skull Gainster Solider Episode Three: By now either CyberJack is dead or out of it, so we don't need his write-up anymore By now, we can refer to past episode if Skull GB's still need to be here, even if it is an assumption So, we need Chaos members And we need The Skull himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I seriously haven't forgotten this, but as Chris G is aware, I have had some serious issues come up in the weeks since we trailed off that have left me with no creative time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: I seriously haven't forgotten this, but as Chris G is aware, I have had some serious issues come up in the weeks since we trailed off that have left me with no creative time. That is ok Duke. Life takes president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 Are we still committed to the three part adventure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 Sure; why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted October 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 Good. And is the dome really going to be the cliffhanger of part 2? I personally like to end part 1 with the dome, but what has been told to me, the entire "what the bad guys are doing" and "how to keep the dome up till chapter three" and even "what are the civilians doing" thing can get complcate. Might work on the stats for The Skull over the weekend. At least we can get a rough idea about him which we can fudge up and down till he looks, well, like a starter master criminal he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ruggels Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Just to reiterate the projects goals. it is to produce an introductory adventure, as a companion piece to Champions Complete, aimed at new users. This adventure uses none of the existing Characters, locations and situations from the "Champions Universe" (CU). The purpose it so create a self contained adventure in three parts that introduces players to the basics of combat, skill rolls and investigation in the HERO framework. The product should be presented in as an adventures in an MCU context, rather than Comic Books, so as to give the players a common frame of reference. Situations and references should be contemporary, and most specifically not refer back to "Silver Age" tropes. This is a product for younger gamers, and not aimed at the Grognards, but they might have fun with this. ?Es Claro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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