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Wizard's spellbook. VPP or multipower

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Hi. Have a question about making a wizard's spellbook. Would it be best to make it as a vpp or multipower to replicate a spellbook as in a dnd sense. Also a consideration is I'd like my wizard player engaged with the game rather than preparing spells for the next combat in between combats. All suggestions are appreciated 

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Well, as you mentioned DnD, I am going to assume you mean in the 5e sense. In that case, Multipower is going to be a bit awkward, since you really can't switch out slots on a daily basis without some hand waving by the GM.

 

As to preparing spells between combats, I am not sure what you mean there, unless you specify otherwise you will recover charges nightly, similar to the DnD long rest concept. I would go with a VPP that has a custom limitation on it around number of uses per day but not get too terribly worried about mechanically translating the spells per level bit. Then add in "VPP only changes when character has access to his spellbook and time to study it" and you are pretty well set. Just make up a spell list that you can switch out between scenes and make sure the GM is okay with your builds to save time.

 

- E

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What I've done for some of the former D&D players at my table was create two multipowers.

 

First one for instant abilities (mostly attacks like fireball, magic missile, etc.).

Second one for constant abilities (bless, haste, darkness, etc.).

 

While more complicated VPP better simulates the wizard, cleric and other classes that can memorize from a list of spells, but only have so many prepared for use each day.

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Ok. That helps. I forgot to mention I'm a little new to hero system so its still a bit overwhelming. That said I didn't think of premade lists of spells for preparing them. Good idea. 

 

Though my experience with the hero system is still limited its getting easier. Glad there's an active community to bounce questions off of. Thanks again 

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16 minutes ago, tombrown803 said:

go to killerstrike.com for more information. He put a lot of information and discussion about different magic systems and the advantages and disadvantages about doing multipowers and VPPs.

Will check that out. Thanks for the advice 

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9 hours ago, tombrown803 said:

go to killerstrike.com for more information. He put a lot of information and discussion about different magic systems and the advantages and disadvantages about doing multipowers and VPPs.

 

Typo alert! That is killershrike.com rather than killerstrike.com

 

You might have got there anyway but...

 

Doc

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8 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

Typo alert! That is killershrike.com rather than killerstrike.com

 

You might have got there anyway but...

 

Doc

 

Here are some places to start...

Magic System Design (abstract)

Magic Systems (5e / Fantasy)

 

There's a wide mix of systems with or without various power frameworks (including multiple VPP and MP based systems), some that use the rules as written, others that 'extend' or bend the official rules. 

 

And on another note, here are the types of 'magic users' available in my 6e urban fantasy setting, with links to specific system docs; all of the magic systems are usable in a fantasy or urban fantasy setting:

Mystic Origin (6e / Urban Fantasy)

 

 

 

 

 

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If you really want to simulate D&D type magic look at the advantage Delayed Effect.   Although to me using the Hero system to simulate D&D is kind of like turning steak into hamburger.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that if you use a VPP the Wizard essentially knows every spell.  You can require all spells to be from a prewritten list, but nothing prevents the player from writing a huge list of spells. 

 

For Fantasy Hero you don’t really need a framework.  Spells in Fantasy hero tend to have a lot of limitations on them so often end up being incredibly cheap.   Most of my attack spells are under 15 points and the other spells are usually even cheaper. 

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1 hour ago, LoneWolf said:

If you really want to simulate D&D type magic look at the advantage Delayed Effect.   Although to me using the Hero system to simulate D&D is kind of like turning steak into hamburger.

 

 

Some people like hamburger more than steak. If nothing else, hamburger is easier to chew for people who don't have a full set of teeth. :)

 

I think it's flavorful for magicians to have a book of spells as long as you don't get dogmatic on how a player is forced to use that book as a crutch in order to access his magic, at all, like D&D has in various editions.

 

And as a GM, I'm a big fan on players who have a VPP having all the combat VPP power builds they're going to use written up before that session starts rather than allowing them to grind combat to a halt repeatedly as the player tries to cost out new combinations of powers, advantages, and limitations on the fly.

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I don't know the new D&D system.  The last version I played was 3.5, so that's what I'll go with here.

 

For a low level wizard, it's probably easiest to go with a Multipower and put a Charges limitation on the Multipower itself.  Any spell that is an enduring effect (lasts a long time while you're using other spells), you would need to buy outside of the Multipower.  I'd allow an additional limitation that it runs off the same pool of charges.

 

40 point Multipower (Magic spells) -- 6 charges (-3/4), incantations and gestures (-1/2), must pre-select which slot will use how many charges (-1/2) -- real cost 15 points

--Magic Missile, 1D6+1 RKA, Autofire x3, +5 OCV

--Color Spray, 4D6 Flash vs Sight, AE: Cone

--Knock, 10D6 Dispel vs any locks (+1/4 variable effect)

 

And so on.  Then you'd have an Armor spell or something bought outside the Multipower.  Give it an extra -3/4 or something for sharing its charges with the Multipower.

 

For higher level characters, you'd probably just want to go to a Variable Power Pool.  That, or use a combination of things.  9th level spells would be incredibly powerful, and expensive.  You might want to give the character a small VPP for 1st through 3rd level spells, a larger Multipower for 4th - 6th, and then have each spell purchased individually for 7th level plus.  At that level, Active Points are going to be extremely high, and won't always match up to your spell level (a 6th level spell might be more expensive than certain 9th levels).  So just buying them separately might be better than trying to shoehorn them into a Power Framework.

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9 hours ago, massey said:

I don't know the new D&D system.  The last version I played was 3.5, so that's what I'll go with here.

 

For a low level wizard, it's probably easiest to go with a Multipower and put a Charges limitation on the Multipower itself.  Any spell that is an enduring effect (lasts a long time while you're using other spells), you would need to buy outside of the Multipower.  I'd allow an additional limitation that it runs off the same pool of charges.

 

40 point Multipower (Magic spells) -- 6 charges (-3/4), incantations and gestures (-1/2), must pre-select which slot will use how many charges (-1/2) -- real cost 15 points

--Magic Missile, 1D6+1 RKA, Autofire x3, +5 OCV

--Color Spray, 4D6 Flash vs Sight, AE: Cone

--Knock, 10D6 Dispel vs any locks (+1/4 variable effect)

 

And so on.  Then you'd have an Armor spell or something bought outside the Multipower.  Give it an extra -3/4 or something for sharing its charges with the Multipower.

 

For higher level characters, you'd probably just want to go to a Variable Power Pool.  That, or use a combination of things.  9th level spells would be incredibly powerful, and expensive.  You might want to give the character a small VPP for 1st through 3rd level spells, a larger Multipower for 4th - 6th, and then have each spell purchased individually for 7th level plus.  At that level, Active Points are going to be extremely high, and won't always match up to your spell level (a 6th level spell might be more expensive than certain 9th levels).  So just buying them separately might be better than trying to shoehorn them into a Power Framework.

 

What I've done for my Fantasy HERO players who are D&D 5e converts is to create two multi-powers.

 

1st multipower is for spells that are instant.

2nd multipower is for spells that are constant.

 

This works very well for them as D&D 5e limits almost all spells with a duration by requiring concentration - which is limited to a single spell.

 

This is to avoid the buff-stacking and debuff-stacking complexity of older editions.  There are a few exceptions, but the two-multipower system has been very popular with my players.  It feels more like what they're used to coming from 5e.

 

PS:  I always find the translation of spells to be fascinating going from D&D to HERO.  Our version of Magic Missile is Blast 1d6 - NND - Does Body - AoE Single Hex - Accurate - Autofire.  This makes it nearly impossible to miss unless the character Dives for Cover.

 

Although far from perfect we also went with a rough active point chart for spell levels:

Cantrips:  30 or less.

1st: 30

2nd: 37

3rd: 45

4th: 52

5th: 60 and so on.

 

 

 

 

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I am rusty on this but what I would recommend is a VPP with the limitations Only Magic (-1/4) andCan Only Change with Magic Book  (-1/2). Set the Control Cost based on Scottish Fox's numbers (since I haven't the foggiest) with the pool linked to an Endurance Reserve (Mana) with the limitation Double Endurance Cost (-1/2) on the Powers in the pool (see HS V.1 pg. 206).

 

By controlling the pool's Control Cost carefully you can simulate both Constant & Instant Powers that "level up". You could also make a Familiar, potions, etc. with the correct Powers, Power Limitations, Advantages and Skill rolls. 

 

For example you can require a skill roll for Magic or Alchemy for inexperienced Mages, Gestures, Concentration, Incantation, etc. You can reduce the End cost or remove the book requirements on the pool for experienced or talented mages. etc. and as the pool itself becomes larger more active constant spells,  a larger repertoire of spells, etc.

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I have some notes for a system that simulated D&D-style Vancian magic quite well. All spells were in a Multipower, with each spell being a fixed slot and the pool being the spellbook. The pool and all slots were purchased with the Delayed Effect advantage, with the cap being the total points in the pool. (If you had a 60-point pool, you could memorize up to 60 Active Points worth of spells.) All spells required Extra Time, with more powerful ones taking longer to memorize. You needed the spell book to memorize spells, but not to cast ones already memorized.

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