Variable Power with conditions

[klosenlinks]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the system, and I'm really blocking on a power idea of one my player.

 

Basically, he would like to be able to take gemstones and transform them into weapons or objects with variable advantages and special effects.

And then, he would like the power to be more or less potent depending on the rarity of the gemstone.

Apart from creating a multipower with slots for each "gemstone rarity", I do not see how to do this. But it feels clunky to me, basically making him buy almost the same power several times with just one limitation varying in value. Especially since there would have to be different powers, as he may want to create  weapon (killing attack) or something else.

Is there a proper way to model this ?

 

Oh, and I'm not sure about the exact limitation to use, as the gemstones disappear upon use (and may revert back to a gem afterwards, I'm still not sure). I do not have a problem creating a custom limitation, but I may have missed something.

 

Finally, I understand it is not possible to create a VPP inside a multipower. But is it possible to create a multipower inside a multipower ? I did not find any information on this.

 

Thanks a lot !

Klosenlinks

[ScottishFox]

I would recommend a variable power pool for this situation.

 

Then he can set powers based on available gemstones and you and the player can work out an active power cap for powers based on gemstone quality.  Maybe even power types based on gemstone type.

[Tom Cowan]

Look at the variable advantage advantage? with a OAF?  Need to grab a book. 

[Tech]

2 hours ago, klosenlinks said:

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the system, and I'm really blocking on a power idea of one my player.

 

Basically, he would like to be able to take gemstones and transform them into weapons or objects with variable advantages and special effects.

And then, he would like the power to be more or less potent depending on the rarity of the gemstone.

Apart from creating a multipower with slots for each "gemstone rarity", I do not see how to do this. But it feels clunky to me, basically making him buy almost the same power several times with just one limitation varying in value. Especially since there would have to be different powers, as he may want to create  weapon (killing attack) or something else.

Is there a proper way to model this ?

 

Oh, and I'm not sure about the exact limitation to use, as the gemstones disappear upon use (and may revert back to a gem afterwards, I'm still not sure). I do not have a problem creating a custom limitation, but I may have missed something.

 

Finally, I understand it is not possible to create a VPP inside a multipower. But is it possible to create a multipower inside a multipower ? I did not find any information on this.

 

Thanks a lot !

Klosenlinks

 

Why not simply have different Multipower slot powers, each one a different  power representing a particular gem he must have to use.

 

A quick example:

 Multipower

f  10d6 Blast - must have Quartz (very common)

f  +6d6 HA, Penetrating - must have Amethyst

f  3d6 HKA - must have Diamond

 

 

[IndianaJoe3]

4 hours ago, klosenlinks said:

Basically, he would like to be able to take gemstones and transform them into weapons or objects with variable advantages and special effects.

And then, he would like the power to be more or less potent depending on the rarity of the gemstone.

Apart from creating a multipower with slots for each "gemstone rarity", I do not see how to do this. But it feels clunky to me, basically making him buy almost the same power several times with just one limitation varying in value. Especially since there would have to be different powers, as he may want to create  weapon (killing attack) or something else.

Is there a proper way to model this ?

 

Oh, and I'm not sure about the exact limitation to use, as the gemstones disappear upon use (and may revert back to a gem afterwards, I'm still not sure). I do not have a problem creating a custom limitation, but I may have missed something.

 

Expendability of the gemstones is the relevant bit, I think. If the gemstones aren't expended, eventually he's going to wind up with the top quality one and use it all the time. This isn't worth a Limitation. He starts by buying the spell at the base level (quartz, for instance), and then spends XP on the full-power version when he gets a diamond. Yes, he could lose the diamond (and go back to the quartz version temporarily), but that shouldn't last more than a gaming session. (Playing out repeated attempted robberies would get boring for everyone.)

 

If the gemstone goes away permanently, things get more complicated. You buy the spell at the lowest level, with the lowest level of Expendable (-0). Don't worry about keeping track of it at this level, just assume that he has a decent supply of quartz chips or whatever bits the spell needs. Then, add additional points of effect that require a Difficult to replace focus (-1/4). The highest levels of effect require a Focus that is Very Difficult to replace. Here's how it might work:

 

Magic Blast:  (Total: 40 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) Blast 4d6 (20 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; quartz chips; -1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +Blast 2d6 (10 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; zircon crystals; -3/4) (Real Cost: 6) plus +Blast 2d6 (10 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Very Difficult to obtain new Focus; cut diamonds; -1) (Real Cost: 5)

 

If all the caster has are the quartz chips. the blast is 4d6. If he has zircon crystals, it's 6d6, and if he has cut diamonds available, it's 8d6.

[klosenlinks]

Thank you very much for all your inputs !

 

5 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

I would recommend a variable power pool for this situation.

 

Then he can set powers based on available gemstones and you and the player can work out an active power cap for powers based on gemstone quality.  Maybe even power types based on gemstone type.

 

I think I overlooked VPPs as this obscure element that seems too complicated at first, but after re-reading this part it seems like it could indeed work with a bit of tweaking.

 

3 hours ago, Tech said:

 

Why not simply have different Multipower slot powers, each one a different  power representing a particular gem he must have to use.

 

A quick example:

 Multipower

f  10d6 Blast - must have Quartz (very common)

f  +6d6 HA, Penetrating - must have Amethyst

f  3d6 HKA - must have Diamond

 

 

 

This is what I first thought of, but his idea was one of powers that would be more or less powerful depending on the gems used - built as a multipower, he would have different variations of the same power - for every power. This seemed a bit "dirty" to me !

 

1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

Expendability of the gemstones is the relevant bit, I think. If the gemstones aren't expended, eventually he's going to wind up with the top quality one and use it all the time. This isn't worth a Limitation. He starts by buying the spell at the base level (quartz, for instance), and then spends XP on the full-power version when he gets a diamond. Yes, he could lose the diamond (and go back to the quartz version temporarily), but that shouldn't last more than a gaming session. (Playing out repeated attempted robberies would get boring for everyone.)

 

If the gemstone goes away permanently, things get more complicated. You buy the spell at the lowest level, with the lowest level of Expendable (-0). Don't worry about keeping track of it at this level, just assume that he has a decent supply of quartz chips or whatever bits the spell needs. Then, add additional points of effect that require a Difficult to replace focus (-1/4). The highest levels of effect require a Focus that is Very Difficult to replace. Here's how it might work:

 

Magic Blast:  (Total: 40 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) Blast 4d6 (20 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; quartz chips; -1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +Blast 2d6 (10 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; zircon crystals; -3/4) (Real Cost: 6) plus +Blast 2d6 (10 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Very Difficult to obtain new Focus; cut diamonds; -1) (Real Cost: 5)

 

If all the caster has are the quartz chips. the blast is 4d6. If he has zircon crystals, it's 6d6, and if he has cut diamonds available, it's 8d6.

 

Thank you for this, I think you really nailed my issue with this. I guess I hadn't partially-limited/compound powers in mind !

 

—

 

I guess I now have the tools to think about it ! Thanks again for your quick and in-depth help. I heard good things about the HERO community, and it seems to be true !

 

[Tom Cowan]

Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; +2) (60 Active Points); OAF Fragile (Gems; -1 1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (must have the right type of gem; -1/4)

[klosenlinks]

9 hours ago, Tom Cowan said:

Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; +2) (60 Active Points); OAF Fragile (Gems; -1 1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (must have the right type of gem; -1/4)

 

Thanks, mixing variable advantage and limited power is another way to look at this.

 

I should be able t find something suitable by playing with all of this !