Coffin Questions

[Cassandra]

What is the limitations for "Usable only on a 0 DCV Target?"

 

What is the limitation for "Activates when the target is at full STUN Total."

 

I'm building a version of the villain from Spoorloos.

 

Thanks.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

The value of those limitations is going to depend greatly on what power they're attached to.  Could you explain the power(s) you're building? 

[Cassandra]

First would be an entangle representing the coffin buried in the ground.

 

Entangle 3d6 DEF 3, Blocks Normal Sight & Hearing, Takes No Damage (+1/2), No Range (-1/2), Only Against DCV 0 Targets (-1/2), [1c/Recoverable] (-1 1/2), IIF[Immobile]: Buried Box (-1 1/4)

 

This represent the box where an unconscious person is put in.

 

Drain [BODY] 1d6, Continuous (+1), Only Against DCV 0 Targets (-1/2), Linked [Entangle] (-1/2), Activates When Target Reaches Full STUN (-1/2), [1c/Duration 1 Minute/Recoverable] (-1), IIF[Immobile]: Buried Box (-1 1/4)

 

This represents the victim waking up and realizing that they are buried alive.  The panic results in the victim to use up their air and they will suffocate within 1 Minutes. 

 

Raymond Lemorne is a chemistry professor who one day saves a child from drowning.  Called a hero by his family, Raymond who is a sociopath, decides to see if he can to something evil.  He is also claustrophobic so he decides to make someone experience his greatest fear.

 

The Recoverable part of the Charges is Him digging another hole and building another box for his victims.

 

 

Here is the write up for Raymond

 

Val Char Cost

10 STR 0

11 DEX 3

10 CON 0

10 BODY 0

13 INT 3

10 EGO 0

15 PRE 5

10 COM 0

2 PD 0

2 ED 0

2 SPD -1

4 REC 0

20 END 0

20 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 10 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Conversation 12-

1 FB: Passport

2 KS: Chloroform 11-

2 Navigation [Ground] 12-

3 Persuasion 12-

2 PS: Professor 11-

2 SS: Chemistry 11-

Total Skills Cost: 15 Points

 

Cost Powers

10 EB 3d6, NND [LS: Self Contained] (+1), No Range (-1/2), [8c] (-1/2), OAF: Chloroform (-1)

Total Powers Cost: 10 Points

 

Total Cost: 35 Points

 

25+ Disadvantages

15 PsyL: Claustrophobia (Common/Strong)

10 PsyL: Sociopath (Uncommon/Strong)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 50 Points

 

I'm hoping the Entangle and Drain will be about 15 Points Total so it all adds up to 50 Points, making him a Competent Normal.

 

[Grailknight]

I see no need to stat these out. Against anything other than a high end Heroic or better character the situation is fatal enough. Spend points on the means to render the victim helpless and move on.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

So he's just putting an unconscious person in a box and burying it, via purely mundane methods?  I wouldn't represent that as a power.  Not everything should be a power, this is just an application of a box and the environment. 

[Zeropoint]

I agree. You don't need to buy a power with character points to be able to use a shovel. A HERO character already has the INT to figure out how to dig a hole, the DEX to make the shovel go where they want, and the STR to lift the dirt. You wouldn't (I hope) buy the Summon power to represent the fact that your character can call a taxi/Uber/Lyft. This way lies madness and spoons with half-page writeups.

[Tjack]

5 minutes ago, Zeropoint said:

I agree. You don't need to buy a power with character points to be able to use a shovel. A HERO character already has the INT to figure out how to dig a hole, the DEX to make the shovel go where they want, and the STR to lift the dirt. You wouldn't (I hope) buy the Summon power to represent the fact that your character can call a taxi/Uber/Lyft. This way lies madness and spoons with half-page writeups.

 

     I’m reminded of the pages devoted to writing up a smart phone.

[Cassandra]

I realize that in the case of normals it's not necessary to write up the Coffin, but I'm thinking what he encounters a hero or heroine.  They are at a rest stop and Raymond strikes up a conversation and comes with a reason for them to come get something at his car.  Raymond then knocks them out with the chloroform and the hero or heroine would find themselves trapped in the buried box.  Once their senses fully return they would have to figure a way out before the suffocate.

 

This character is from the book The Golden Egg (Het Gouden Ei in Dutch) by Tim Krabbe.  It was made into the Dutch movie Spoorloos (The Vanishing) in 1988, and remade in 1993 as the Vanishing starring Sandra Bullock.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

4 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

I realize that in the case of normals it's not necessary to write up the Coffin, but I'm thinking what he encounters a hero or heroine.  They are at a rest stop and Raymond strikes up a conversation and comes with a reason for them to come get something at his car.  Raymond then knocks them out with the chloroform and the hero or heroine would find themselves trapped in the buried box.  Once their senses fully return they would have to figure a way out before the suffocate.

So why do you need anything beyond the DEF and BODY of the box and dirt? 

[Cassandra]

5 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

So why do you need anything beyond the DEF and BODY of the box and dirt? 

 

To make sure no normal human could possible escape, unlike Bruce Wayne did in Justice League Doom.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

Just now, Cassandra said:

To make sure no normal human could possible escape, unlike Bruce Wayne did in Justice League Doom.

I don't get it. 

What makes "This box is an Entangle with DEF whatever and BODY whatever, the lack of air is a Continuous Drain whatever whateverd6 from a SPD 2 enemy" any less escapable than "The box is DEF whatever BODY whatever, the dirt is DEF whatever BODY whatever, you've got whatever Turns of air"? 

Why is this distinction necessary?  What am I missing? 

[Cassandra]

1 minute ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I don't get it. 

What makes "This box is an Entangle with DEF whatever and BODY whatever, the lack of air is a Continuous Drain whatever whateverd6 from a SPD 2 enemy" any less escapable than "The box is DEF whatever BODY whatever, the dirt is DEF whatever BODY whatever, you've got whatever Turns of air"? 

Why is this distinction necessary?  What am I missing? 

 

Raymond is SPD 2, which means with a Continuous Power and [1c/Duration 1 Minute] the person in the Entangle would take due to the Drain about 3.5 BODY twice per turn.  With 5 Turns per minute that means the victim would take on average 35 BODY, more then enough to kill anyone.

[Tjack]

24 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

 

To make sure no normal human could possible escape, unlike Bruce Wayne did in Justice League Doom.

 

    Don’t forget the Bride in Kill Bill did the same thing with ordinary Str and some Martial Arts.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

14 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

Raymond is SPD 2, which means with a Continuous Power and [1c/Duration 1 Minute] the person in the Entangle would take due to the Drain about 3.5 BODY twice per turn.  With 5 Turns per minute that means the victim would take on average 35 BODY, more then enough to kill anyone.

I understand that, but why does "The box is DEF whatever BODY whatever, the dirt is DEF whatever BODY whatever, you've got whatever Turns of air" not provide the same? 

Please spell this out like I'm an idiot if I'm overlooking something obvious. 

[Cassandra]

2 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I understand that, but why does "The box is DEF whatever BODY whatever, the dirt is DEF whatever BODY whatever, you've got whatever Turns of air" not provide the same? 

Please spell this out like I'm an idiot if I'm overlooking something obvious. 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Doc Democracy]

He is asking why this is something that needs to have points spent on it.

 

Personally the only reason for it, in my head, is that, if you get the hit roll necessary, then it all happens without a hitch, the ground is not too rocky, noone stumbles across you during the digging, etc. My biggest concern is that a normal person, if they push their STR will roll 4 sixes (8 BODY) one time in a thousand or so and spring free from this grave.  More often they will roll 6 BODY or more.  I can definitely see normal folk escaping, even 2D6 gives 4 BODY one time in 36.  A heroic character will have more damage and likely may be allowed to push that.

 

Doc

[dmjalund]

10 hours ago, Tjack said:

 

     I’m reminded of the pages devoted to writing up a smart phone.

If the phone were that smart it would write itself up!

[Grailknight]

15 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

 

I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

If you're trying to simulate the movies and books, then the coffin and dirt have no bearing. Everyone who is trapped dies so a write-up is unnecessary and the trappings are pure fiat. He doesn't even make the attempt to trap without the perfect set-up. Anyone who stops him would do so by deducing him as the killer,  this is a psychological not a physical confrontation.

 

If this is for a dark themed heroic game, you need to spend your points on how he renders the victims helpless. The coffin and grave are unnecessary unless he can get them there. Use the equipment and environment rules. ( DEF of 4 (as i remember) for the wood of the coffin and 2-3 BODY, GM fiat END Reserve for how many recoveries worth of air is available and you're done) Normals won't make it out of the coffin and only  martial artist or strongman type heroic characters have a good chance. 

[Greywind]

If the coffin is too bad, take a cough drop or some cough syrup.

[Cassandra]

5 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

If you're trying to simulate the movies and books, then the coffin and dirt have no bearing. Everyone who is trapped dies so a write-up is unnecessary and the trappings are pure fiat. He doesn't even make the attempt to trap without the perfect set-up. Anyone who stops him would do so by deducing him as the killer,  this is a psychological not a physical confrontation.

 

If this is for a dark themed heroic game, you need to spend your points on how he renders the victims helpless. The coffin and grave are unnecessary unless he can get them there. Use the equipment and environment rules. ( DEF of 4 (as i remember) for the wood of the coffin and 2-3 BODY, GM fiat END Reserve for how many recoveries worth of air is available and you're done) Normals won't make it out of the coffin and only  martial artist or strongman type heroic characters have a good chance. 

 

So if you're character is put in a coffin they just die?   You don't want to give them a chance to escape?

[mallet]

Put in a coffin and buried under 6 feet of dirt? And the character is a normal human? Then yes, they die.  Or they hope some one saves them in time. 

If they have special skills and abilities (like The Bride in Kill Bill) then they could try and smash the coffin lid (DEF 4, BOD 3 (for a well made one)) and then hope they have enough air and STR to dig their way up through the dirt. They would need to hold their breath as the dirt falls on them, then push enough dirt into the space the inside of the coffin takes up and then push up, worm their way up, etc... through the rest of the dirt (luckily it'll be loosely packed as it was a fresh dug grave), so if they can hold their breath long enough and have a decent STR and/or DEX they might make it out. But that wouldn't be a normal (all 8 STATS) character, but a competent character with STATS 10-15 range and a good END, might make it. But again, I also don't think it needs to be built as a power. It is an environmental thing. Like being trapped in a cave in or a collapsed building or trapped underwater and needing to get out before you run out of air and drown.  

 

Once they break out of the coffin, then it becomes a countdown. they need X number of successful rolls to dig up through the dirt, and they only have Y amount of Phases (based on their END for holding their breath). If they don't make the number of successes needed to dig out before their END (and then STUN) runs out, then they die. 

[Zeropoint]

6 hours ago, Cassandra said:

So if you're character is put in a coffin they just die?   You don't want to give them a chance to escape?

 

I'm not clear on why the coffin has to be written up as a power to offer a buried character a chance to escape. If the killer is making these coffins himself, you just give the coffin lid whatever DEF and BOD scores you think is appropriate for the challenge level. He doesn't need a power to build a wooden box. If he's using off-the-shelf coffins, you do a little research and set the DEF and BOD to simulate the coffins he's buying. He doesn't need a power to buy a wooden box.

 

If you're this hung up on using powers to represent things, a buried character won't have any chance of escape from the grave anyway . . . unless they had the foresight to buy some Tunneling to let them dig up through the dirt.

[Greywind]

This is a case of seriously overthinking the issue.

[Doc Democracy]

12 hours ago, Cassandra said:

 

So if you're character is put in a coffin they just die?   You don't want to give them a chance to escape?

 

I am quite interested in why you think doing this as a power gives a victim a chance to escape where the mundane use of environmental stuff does not.  I agree that making the whole thing an escape from an Entangle makes it far more straightforward but it might also rob it of some colour. 

 

Doc

[dmjalund]

I think a coffin would be a specific instance of the more general Death-Trap and cost it accordingly