Powers [Speed Tricks] Question

[Cassandra]

I'm developing a Speedster Skill Set and I was wondering if you purchased Power [Speed Tricks] could that be used for say cleaning up a room or other non-combat Speedster tricks?

[sentry0]

I think there was an example of that in the Champions Complete book.  Going from memory I think it was something like Change Environment or a minor Transform that was used to clean an area.

[sentry0]

To answer your question directly I would rather go down the VPP route with a small VPP with heavy lims like not useable in combat.  That's essentially what you would be turning the Power skill into but for a cheaper cost.

[Cassandra]

53 minutes ago, sentry0 said:

I think there was an example of that in the Champions Complete book.  Going from memory I think it was something like Change Environment or a minor Transform that was used to clean an area.

 

I remember that from the 5th Edition Champions too, but I don't think it's worth the points outside of a Multipower or VPP.

[Greywind]

Anything used repeatedly ends up needing to be paid for in full anyway.

[Cassandra]

Still it's a worth while skill so I'll keep it in the set.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

1 hour ago, Cassandra said:

I'm developing a Speedster Skill Set and I was wondering if you purchased Power [Speed Tricks] could that be used for say cleaning up a room or other non-combat Speedster tricks?

Call me a heretic, but isn't "Very high SPD, movement, and DEX" already enough to clean up a room super fast?  Does everything need a unique writeup? 

[Cassandra]

3 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Call me a heretic, but isn't "Very high SPD, movement, and DEX" already enough to clean up a room super fast?  Does everything need a unique writeup? 

 

That's why I thought a Power Skill [Speed Tricks] might cover it.

[Greywind]

Shipp's Flash made a bigger mess trying to clean a room at speed.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

33 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

That's why I thought a Power Skill [Speed Tricks] might cover it.

Why would it need a Power Skill? 

[Cassandra]

1 minute ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

Why would it need a Power Skill? 

 

To cover all the thinks that superheroes do but don't have any real affect in combat.  A Brick would be able to crave him name into concrete with Power Skill, or an Energy Projector could leave a glowing message on a wall with one.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

2 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

To cover all the thinks that superheroes do but don't have any real affect in combat.  A Brick would be able to crave him name into concrete with Power Skill, or an Energy Projector could leave a glowing message on a wall with one.

The brick already bought STR.  His fingers can tear through concrete the way mine tear through the sand at the beach, just because he's that STRong.  I don't need Power Skill: Ordinary Human Things to write my name in the sand, why would he need a skill to write his name in concrete? 

[ScottishFox]

If it's something very minor I chalk it up to a character using special effects.

 

Can a character with 3d6 RKA fire blast make their hands burst into flames?  I'll give that to them for free.  No need to define the small stuff.

 

You might chalk up the speed cleaning of the room to the fact they have a very high SPD, DEX and megascaled movement and call it a day.

 

If you think it's going to come up often enough and in important enough ways to change how the game progress then they should probably pay for it.  It's one thing to tidy the room in a blur and another to search the mad scientist's lab and read through all of his notebooks in a couple of seconds.

[Cassandra]

1 hour ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

The brick already bought STR.  His fingers can tear through concrete the way mine tear through the sand at the beach, just because he's that STRong.  I don't need Power Skill: Ordinary Human Things to write my name in the sand, why would he need a skill to write his name in concrete? 

 

But can he do it without breaking it causing the pier to fall into the ocean?

[Amorkca]

I've used the "Power" skill for these types of activities. 

 

Also, if they want to learn something new to eventually add to a Multipower or VPP I've had them roll the skill roll to perform the new power but can't use it indiscriminately until they put points into the MP slot!

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

27 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

But can he do it without breaking it causing the pier to fall into the ocean?

Yes, unless he has relevant Disadvantages like Does Not Know Own Strength. 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

31 minutes ago, Cassandra said:

But can he do it without breaking it causing the pier to fall into the ocean?

And for that matter, what sort of antagonistic GM do you have to be to say "Whoops, looks like you [failed the roll/didn't have the arbitrary skill] to do a cool thing with no real importance.  You [destroy the pier/make a mess of the room/ruin everything] and look like a buffoon!  Haha!"  That just teaches players to not do fun things and not attempt to interact with the game world outside the strictly defined mechanical abstractions that can't backfire on them for daring to want to do something neat. 

[Greywind]

Mundane things are just that. Mundane things do not require any special skill to do unless, as the Gnome pointed out, there is a complication of some sort in play, either on the character sheet, or in the case of Cassandra's pier, in city hall indicating that the pier needs to be repaired/replaced.

[Ninja-Bear]

10 hours ago, Cassandra said:

I'm developing a Speedster Skill Set and I was wondering if you purchased Power [Speed Tricks] could that be used for say cleaning up a room or other non-combat Speedster tricks?

Yes I would. That’s exactly what Power Skill was designed for in Fifth Ed. I think in CC it was written up as  +9 non-combatant skills.

[Ninja-Bear]

6 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

And for that matter, what sort of antagonistic GM do you have to be to say "Whoops, looks like you [failed the roll/didn't have the arbitrary skill] to do a cool thing with no real importance.  You [destroy the pier/make a mess of the room/ruin everything] and look like a buffoon!  Haha!"  That just teaches players to not do fun things and not attempt to interact with the game world outside the strictly defined mechanical abstractions that can't backfire on them for daring to want to do something neat. 

Not so much as antagonistic as GMs/Players stating “You get what you pay for!”. Power skill was a way to bridge the gap of doing one off things or minor things without paying for it. I give everyone an Power Skill 11- for free not 8-.

[Duke Bushido]

7 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Yes I would. That’s exactly what Power Skill was designed for in Fifth Ed.

 

Pretty much. While I don't knock the idea for those who feel the need for it, Power Skill is one of those points-creep contributors.  It became a published rule in 5e.  There was speculation (remember that Steve doesn't actually discuss the "why" of his changes, and honestly, I don't blame him!) at the time that it was modeled on various similar house rules or from some other game or two that was using a similar construct (which in turn inspired even more house rules).

 

Prior to 5e, those of us not using a similar house rule could simply "do it if it made sense," like the speedster  power-cleaning the room, or the brick carefully rolling up a street into a giant swiss roll.  We might allow some things in combat as unique ideas, but for the most part, this was more a background or role-playing schtick for us, and making someone by a skill never did feel right.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Not so much as antagonistic as GMs/Players stating “You get what you pay for!”. Power skill was a way to bridge the gap of doing one off things or minor things without paying for it. I give everyone an Power Skill 11- for free not 8-.

 

I suspect you're not alone in that.  But honestly, if you're going to bump it up to 50 percent for free, why charge for it at all?  Or is this for wiggy in-combat type stuff?

 

 

[wcw43921]

8 hours ago, Greywind said:

Shipp's Flash made a bigger mess trying to clean a room at speed.

He eventually got the hang of it, though--there was an episode where he used super-speed to clean up the dinner dishes at his parents' house.  Then he had to stand and wait in the dining room so as not to arouse their suspicion.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

19 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Not so much as antagonistic as GMs/Players stating “You get what you pay for!”.

But the brick already paid for the STR needed to rend concrete like it was mud!  But the speedster already paid for the SPD, DEX, and movement needed to perform mundane tasks at extreme speed! 

Not being able to apply powers in simple and logical ways means you're not getting what you paid for.  And on top of that, just daring to try destroyed that pier! 

[Greywind]

20 minutes ago, wcw43921 said:

He eventually got the hang of it, though--there was an episode where he used super-speed to clean up the dinner dishes at his parents' house.  Then he had to stand and wait in the dining room so as not to arouse their suspicion.

 

Practice made perfect.

 

Think I need to dig that out for a rewatch.

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Greywind said:

Mundane things are just that. Mundane things do not require any special skill to do unless, as the Gnome pointed out, there is a complication of some sort in play, either on the character sheet, or in the case of Cassandra's pier, in city hall indicating that the pier needs to be repaired/replaced.

By default in a super heroic game even mundane items need to be bought with points. However I do see your point.