Share Your Magic System!

[Tywyll]

I'm always interested in new magic systems. We have the ones in the FH book, TA, VA, AA, and TM. We have KillerShrike's amazing resource.

 

What about you? Do you have a custom rules system for magic? How do you handle powers in your settings?

 

 

[Killer Shrike]

I have some magic...oh, never mind...

[Tywyll]

1 hour ago, Killer Shrike said:

I have some magic...oh, never mind...

 

I love, love, LOVE your website btw!

 

How many of your systems have you been able to use at the table? 

 

I really like the one with Skills and Power constructs. Magecraft? How does that work in play? 

[Killer Shrike]

Thanks. Almost all of them saw play to some extent or the other, though the magic systems that have been used by PC's have gotten more actual playtime than some that were only used by NPC's. A couple of them were mentioned and were "in play" but due to the vagaries of campaign flow the players never wandered into an area or scenario where it became relevant.

 

Magecraft is one of my favorites, and has been used by both NPC's and PC's. Other people have sent me emails over the years indicating that they used it in whole or part to good success. The `Ars Mysterium` type of magic in Here There Be Monsters is adapted from it and may be a cleaner representation. Generally speaking, the various magic systems listed in Here There Be Monsters for Mystics to use are my current working set, and if I were to ever revisit the Fantasy Hero material again I would rebase off of the HtbM set rather than going back to the original 5e versions in the fantasy section of the site. You might want to check them out.

[Tywyll]

Cool, thank you! I definitely will check that out! 

To be clear, I think if you wrote Hero books with these (and more) systems in them, I know I at least would throw money at you.

[L. Marcus]

Small change hurts.

 

For my homebrew low-end-of-High Fantasy campaign I'm planning to mostly use MPs for arcane spells and VPPs for religious invocations.

 

The basis for arcane spellcasting is the Talent Mage Sense, an Unusual sense bought as Detect Magic (Sense) for 7 points. Other Sense Modifiers can be added before or during play, like Discriminatory, Range, Increased Arc of Perception, and Targeting. Characters are mostly born with Mage Sight, but it can be bought in play in very rare circumstances. Northern spirit warriors, for example, gain the talent when they are imbued with their totem spirit.

 

The size of the Multipower slots would be determined by the relevant Skill for a specific magic tradition (elemental wizardry, animistic druidry, mentalist sorcery ... all Skills based on EGO); fifteen points of Variable slot MP for every point over ten in the Skill. When a spell is first learned, there are certain Limitations that must be bought: Requires [Magic Tradition] Skill Roll (-1 per 20 Active Points), Concentration (½ DCV), Extra Time (full phase), OAF (for example, a staff for a wizard), Gestures (one hand, to activate), Incantations (to activate); all of them can be bought off except for RSR (which can be taken as a Limitation on the MP as a whole). Spells can be bought outside the MP, but then the RSR is -1 per 10 Active Points and the other Limitations should only be bought off with justification.

 

The VPP-for-invocations bit I haven't hashed out in detail yet. Mostly this is because actual holy people are rare, and their personalities mostly make them more suitable as NPCs, I feel.

[Christopher R Taylor]

This is the link for my basic magic system, there's a lot more about it in my book The Fantasy Codex, but this gives you the bare bones.

 

Hint: when I come out with the Player's Guide for my Jolrhos campaign setting, this will be altered slightly and expanded.

[theinfn8]

Just finishing up my mage only fantasy game. I was planning to link the starting info here if people were interested, so I will take this to mean people are interested.

Some caveats to the primer, it is a living document and as such contains notes and modifications, but we had to tweak some things on the fly that might not have made it in. For example, I would probably drop the Ranks AP ranges down and change the skill penalties to match. No one had any reason to buy access to anything higher than Rank C. In any event:

5 Magics Primer

 

If anyone was interested in the Traveler based character gen we used, here's the whole directory:

5 Magics Setup Documentation

[Tywyll]

On 10/9/2019 at 7:57 PM, Killer Shrike said:

Thanks. Almost all of them saw play to some extent or the other, though the magic systems that have been used by PC's have gotten more actual playtime than some that were only used by NPC's. A couple of them were mentioned and were "in play" but due to the vagaries of campaign flow the players never wandered into an area or scenario where it became relevant.

 

Magecraft is one of my favorites, and has been used by both NPC's and PC's. Other people have sent me emails over the years indicating that they used it in whole or part to good success. The `Ars Mysterium` type of magic in Here There Be Monsters is adapted from it and may be a cleaner representation. Generally speaking, the various magic systems listed in Here There Be Monsters for Mystics to use are my current working set, and if I were to ever revisit the Fantasy Hero material again I would rebase off of the HtbM set rather than going back to the original 5e versions in the fantasy section of the site. You might want to check them out.

 

I love your HTBM setting! I also appreciate you statting it up both in 5th and 6th ed!

 

Your use of Resource Pools was a great idea and it got me thinking... I was wondering if in a traditional FH game, you could use resource pools (not equipment, but Favors/Followers, Supernatural, and Professional) to tweak archetypes. I was also wondering if Professional superskills resource pool might be fair if it were a 2 points per CP. The reasoning I had was that magic allows characters to break mundane possibility, while super skills are more limited even though they are bought in the same manner (and often more expensive because they can't stack as many limitations). I was wondering if this might help balance the Fighters vs Wizards dilema a little? It effectively means super skills are getting a campaign modifier of /2 instead of spells getting the TA /3. But spells could be bought as Elemental Controls, MP or even VPP which are harder to justify as super skills (and for these purposes would probably be forbidden outright). Super Skills would be limited to things that could be justified as luck or extreme skill...if an 80's action hero could get away with it, it's probably okay. But nothing supernatural. 

 

Any thoughts? Is this a terrible idea?

[Tywyll]

16 hours ago, theinfn8 said:

Just finishing up my mage only fantasy game. I was planning to link the starting info here if people were interested, so I will take this to mean people are interested.

Some caveats to the primer, it is a living document and as such contains notes and modifications, but we had to tweak some things on the fly that might not have made it in. For example, I would probably drop the Ranks AP ranges down and change the skill penalties to match. No one had any reason to buy access to anything higher than Rank C. In any event:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C9oNXF1Vqpz-WBcRLoHeEALz8ImGfZ75wdBBeDUlvFw/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

If anyone was interested in the Traveler based character gen we used, here's the whole directory:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1WdWgcu5dq7I_PT7toikeGE73l0sEcxzL

Access denied. 😥

[Tywyll]

16 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

This is the link for my basic magic system, there's a lot more about it in my book The Fantasy Codex, but this gives you the bare bones.

 

Hint: when I come out with the Player's Guide for my Jolrhos campaign setting, this will be altered slightly and expanded.

This looks really cool!

 

I may have to pick up the Codex. Is it for 5th or 6th edition?

[Killer Shrike]

Not a terrible idea at all. You could certainly do that and see how it goes. However, I will note that I haven't found there to be a real dichotomy between professionals and mystics in the HtbM set up. While non-professionals have a wider variety of possibilities, pros tend to be competent and deadly. One thing to note is that as I have it set up, high end custom gear must be bought in a professional pool vs an equipment pool, which is another outlet for character capabilities available to pros. There are also some things exclusive to pros like Deadly Blow / Weapon Master, discounted Overall Levels, and the `Professional Edge` talent which offer some advantages as well. 

 

But if you wanted to do a 2:1 ratio on your version of a professional pool and see how it goes there's no harm in it. Twiddle all the dials is my Hero System philosophy.

[Tywyll]

2 hours ago, Killer Shrike said:

Not a terrible idea at all. You could certainly do that and see how it goes. However, I will note that I haven't found there to be a real dichotomy between professionals and mystics in the HtbM set up. While non-professionals have a wider variety of possibilities, pros tend to be competent and deadly. One thing to note is that as I have it set up, high end custom gear must be bought in a professional pool vs an equipment pool, which is another outlet for character capabilities available to pros. There are also some things exclusive to pros like Deadly Blow / Weapon Master, discounted Overall Levels, and the `Professional Edge` talent which offer some advantages as well. 

 

But if you wanted to do a 2:1 ratio on your version of a professional pool and see how it goes there's no harm in it. Twiddle all the dials is my Hero System philosophy.

 

I hesitate to put any kind of gear into payment options, just because I want all gear to be free (even magic items). But I suppose I could let something weird or unique to fit into that pool if a player really wanted it. 

[Killer Shrike]

I would hesitate to let magic items be "free"; personally in HtbM I allow magic items with non-recoverable charges to be taken in an Equipment pool, and all other magic items must be taken in a Mystic pool. 

[theinfn8]

3 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Access denied. 😥

 

Sorry. Of course, when I checked the link I was still logged in, so it loaded just fine! Should be fixed. I updated the original post.

[ScottishFox]

40 minutes ago, Killer Shrike said:

I would hesitate to let magic items be "free"; personally in HtbM I allow magic items with non-recoverable charges to be taken in an Equipment pool, and all other magic items must be taken in a Mystic pool. 

 

Some other systems have tried to limit the influence of magic items on character power as well.

* D&D 5th edition has attunement slots (3) and only the most generic items do not require one.

* Pathfinder 2.0 has a Resonance system.

 

I'm trying to replicate the Pillars of Eternity 2 magic & skill tricks system for my Saturday HERO group.

 

It's a work in progress, but so far...

1.  Nearly all resources / abilities recover on a per encounter basis.

2.  Spellcasters rank up to 2 casts per spell level - per encounter.

3.  Skill trick types (rogues, warriors, monks, etc.) have a single pool to draw on for whichever abilities they use. 

     a.  These abilities have different costs.

     b.  A couple of the classes have a way to recover points during the encounter - such as monks gaining points when they lose BOD.

 

Compared to the last campaign where the abilities were largely at will - players are already being far more tactical with their limited resources.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

The Fantasy Codex is 6th edition

[Ninja-Bear]

An idea I’ve been bouncing around would be to cost spells at Recoverable charges. The recoverable part would be a Con Roll that could only be made after  combat and say maybe an hour rest. 

 

[Lucius]

 

I like the idea of requiring a Skill Roll for magic.

 

I HATE the way in 6th edition there is a mandatory penalty to the roll based on Active Points. First, because it can mean a spellcaster has a different activation roll for every spell, and I think it's simpler to have one roll for most or all spells; and second, because that penalty can so easily become crippling, leading to a spellcaster with a really neat interesting spell that in practice will never ever work because it takes a 5 or less roll.

 

My solution is to create a "Mana Pool" END Reserve and put the Required Roll on the END in the reserve, not the spell itself. To cast a spell you still need to make the roll, but the roll penalty is based on the Active Cost of the END, which is negligable.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary goes for a swim in a mana pool

[Ninja-Bear]

Lucius I believe in 6th to do what you want, you just pick the appropriate Act level and then all spells will turn on at that skill roll.

[Tywyll]

On 10/11/2019 at 2:15 PM, Killer Shrike said:

I would hesitate to let magic items be "free"; personally in HtbM I allow magic items with non-recoverable charges to be taken in an Equipment pool, and all other magic items must be taken in a Mystic pool. 

 

Out of curiosity, why? Is this solely if you are using resource pools or for any type of campaign? 

 

Resource pools are definitely a step in the right direction, but if a mundane character with a professional pool finds a magic doodah, they would still need to buy it by putting points in their Mystic Pool at 1 for 1, so in effect they are buying the item. Maybe if magic items fit in the equipment pool, I'd find it a little less problematic (you are getting a /5 discount). 

 

I just wrote a big response but I decided to start a new thread about it instead. 

[Lucius]

21 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Lucius I believe in 6th to do what you want, you just pick the appropriate Act level and then all spells will turn on at that skill roll.

 

Sure if I wanted to I could buy the Power Skill up to 12 and buy all the spells with an Activation roll of 12.

 

Then I spend 2 XP to raise the Power Skill and have to recalculate all my spells with an Activation roll of 13.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary says Lucius would rather just buy up the Power Skill and all the spells improve automatically

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I HATE the way in 6th edition there is a mandatory penalty to the roll based on Active Points.

 

You can isolate the Requires Skill Roll from the active cost, its just worth less of a limitation then.

 

My concern is that if you have a roll for attack magic, then you have to successfully make your skill roll then successfully make your attack roll.  Its adding not only an extra layer of time and complexity, but chances for failure.  And that doesn't quite feel right for magic as its represented in various media.  For one thing magic almost never misses except in video games.

[Lucius]

2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

You can isolate the Requires Skill Roll from the active cost, its just worth less of a limitation then.

 

 

 

In FIFTH edition.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out that I have effectively done that in Sixth by putting the Limitation on the Mana pool - it's less of a limitation, and the Active Points of the spell are irrelevant (unless they get so massive the Active Points of END required goes up significantly)

[Chris Goodwin]

36 minutes ago, Lucius said:

 

In FIFTH edition.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out that I have effectively done that in Sixth by putting the Limitation on the Mana pool - it's less of a limitation, and the Active Points of the spell are irrelevant (unless they get so massive the Active Points of END required goes up significantly)

 

I was honestly wondering why that wasn't in sixth edition as well.  As GM, I'd house rule it in.  "Limited Power" can cover a lot of ground...