Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
pbemguy

Scarlet Witch 5e write-up?

Recommended Posts

Her power is portrayed incredibly inconsistently in the comics.  Early on, she seemed a prime candidate for a big attack (potentially above whatever your campaign maximum is), with an Activation Roll and Side Effects.  The Scarlet Witch was the one Avenger who could potentially drop Ultron with one blast.  Of course if she tried to use it at the beginning of the fight, it would rarely work out in her favor.  There's not really a "wrong" way to portray her power, because it's so inconsistent.  Whatever you decide to do, it's probably been shown that way at some point in time.

 

I have a writeup of her, but I'm not that happy with it.  It's clunky and very expensive, and I kind of kludged it with using a VPP for part of it.  This was for a version of her with no cost limit, just trying to properly model the character with everything she could do.

 

Hex Power (3 parts):

--11D6 Luck, Activation Roll 13-, Side Effects (becomes Unluck), Costs Endurance (55 Active Points, 20 Real Cost)

--11D6 Energy Blast, 1/2 End, Affects Desolid, Variable SFX (any), Indirect (any direction, any origin), Variable Advantage +1 1/2, Activation Roll 13-, Side Effects, Locks out VPP when in use -1/2 (330 Active Points!!!, 120 Real Cost)

--70 Point VPP, Powers Change as 1/2 Phase Action (122 Real Cost)

 

So the Energy Blast could represent any weird effect you can dream up.  Use the Hex Power and a piano could fall on someone's head.  A bus could make a wrong turn and run over the enemy for 11D6.  An electrical line could fall and land on somebody.  The variable special effects let you choose any kind of appearance.  The variable advantage allows you to make it Area Effect, or Armor Piercing, or whatever you want.  There was a reason I picked +1 1/2, but I don't remember what it was now.  So the Hex Power represents things just going wrong for the enemy.  And the VPP could create any power if a straight-up Energy Blast doesn't work.

 

But again, it's kind of crammed together and I'm not thrilled with how it turned out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is awesome!

 

I thought I was probably going to have to build her from scratch. I have a player who is a newbie to Hero rules and wants me to build for him, which is totally A-OK. He's not playing Scarlet Witch but wants a sort of expy of her, so I don't need to be dead on but I want to capture her flavor as it were.

 

I kind of imagined not using Luck at all, if you can see where I'm coming from. I saw it more as a VPP as you did. Inspired by you, I would build it entirely as a VPP with Luck-based special effect or whatever.

 

My current plan is to build her with a Multipower, with Flight, EB, and TK in there, plus a smaller VPP with some  limitations like "No Conscious Control" and "Reactionary to a life-threatening situation". 

 

I very much appreciate your post!! It's getting my brain rebooted!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Her power is portrayed incredibly inconsistently in the comics. 

 

Yeah she's hard to build because the writers are extremely inconsistent in how they portray her in the comics.  She has even wilder power swings than The Flash.  Can she do this?  Sure, she can apparently do ANYTHING depending on the story and what they writers decide that day.  Or, she CANNOT do that, based on how easily it would make her able to resolve their challenge at the time.

 

Conceptually she has a power pool, with pretty much any ability.  She demonstrates telekinesis, mind control, energy blast, force fields, and much more at a moment's notice.  Its probably would building her with some kind of limitation on her raw power level based on an ego roll or some external circumstances (like she has a 60 point power pool but can only access 40 of that except in emergencies).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Characters like this are generally problematic in games.  Her powers work on probability manipulation, so some days she can divert a meteor to strike the opponent, and other days she struggles to loosen bolts in a girder.  Many writers (and the MCU) have tried to move her to a more conventional Blaster-type to avoid these troublesome issues.

 

Good writers ensure that activation rolls succeed and fail as dramatically appropriate.  The dice are not good writers, so the dice tend not to deliver dramatically appropriate results.

 

I think the "luck/blast/VPP", all with activation rolls, models the character well.  The problem is that it's not a character that fits a game well.  An homage might have a VPP with a luck-based special effect and a Requires a Skill Roll "probability manipulation" limitation.  Actually, defining some effects as "common" (-1/20 AP), others as "familiar" (-1/10 AP) and requiring novel choices to be limited at the -1/5 AP level could work well - many effects have a decent chance at success, and the character can occasionally, but not reliably, really pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience luck is too volatile and GM-dependent to be very useful as a power.  Its a fun side effect but its not dependable and its a pain for the GM to have to keep coming up with stuff that fits unless they are just uniquely gifted at that kind of thing.  It took days or weeks to come up with ways to make Domino's luck-powers to work and make sense in Deadpool 2, and almost none of it you really could run as a GM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I considered (but haven't actually written up yet) is to give her a Multiform with a fairly large limitations.  If she wants to do something really powerful, she makes an Activation Roll or something to try and tap into her vast potential.  In other words, to change to a character sheet with a lot more points.

 

Depending on what limitations you chose, you could give the player or the GM more control over when she activated God Mode.  Say she's normally a 350 point character, and you build her along those lines.  But then she's got a Multiform into a 700 point character (No Conscious Control -- GM permission only), and a 500 point character if she rolls an 11-, with a limitation that you can only activate it once every three sessions or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My fear for a "various power tiers" character would be similar to the "situational limitation" character, like one with a lot of powers that only work at night.  The character alternates between a low-powered tag-along and the uber-character who eclipses the rest of the team.

 

Much like Luck, it requires a lot of GM effort and oversight to make it work in the game.

 

If Luck is used as a major component, then the GM and player need to find a common expectation of how effective Luck will be in-game.  The mechanic was never really intended as a major focus power (remembering it was limited to 3d6 for much of the game's history).  If the character is going to make a significant investment (i.e. AP at campaign standard attack level), and/or it will consume significant resources (costs END; requires actions), then the power has to be run in a manner that it carries a value commensurate with that cost.  To me, that means "less effective than the same AP in an attack in combat", as it has non-combat benefits as well, but still pretty effective in both contexts.

 

Turning over some of the control to the player is probably essential - the GM has a lot to do already, without setting the effects of Luck every time the PC's phase comes around.  Having a list of generic possibilities for various levels of Luck success and letting the player suggest what happens after the roll could alleviate some of the pressure, as well as allowing the player a better feeling he controls the character (Luck included) and is more a participant in the game than a bystander.

 

Ultimately a challenging concept to integrate satisfactorily in the game, whatever approach is taken, and a great example of the principal of "let's see how it works for a few sessions, then decide whether something has to be changed".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scarlet Witch

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

10 BODY 0

13 INT 3

20 EGO 20

15 PRE 5

18 COM 4

5 PD 2

5 ED 1

4 SPD 10

7 REC 0

40 END 0

28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 100 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Concealment 12-

3 Contortionist 13-

3 FB: Federal Police Powers

2 Lang: Fluent English

0 Lang: Native Romanian

3 Lockpicking 13-

2 Navigation [Air] 12-

3 Security Systems 12-

3 Sleight of Hand 13-

3 Streetwise 12-

Total Skills Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Powers

15 Armor +5 rPD +5 rED

40 Multipower (50 Points) Gestures (-1/4)

4 u) EB 10d6

4 u) Entangle 5d6 DEF 5

4 u) Mental Illusion 10d6

4 u) Telekinesis 20 STR, Fine Manipulation, 1/2 END (+1/4)

4 u) Telepathy 10d6

5 ES: Radio Perception & Transmit, OAF: Avegers ID Card (-1)

15 EC [Telekinesis]-15 Points

15 1) Flight 10", 8x NCM

15 2) Force Field +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2)

Total Powers Cost: 125 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

15 Hunted: Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants (More Powerful) 8-

5 Hunted: Magneto (As PowerfulMild) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: Feels Obligated To Fight Crime (Common/Strong)

15 PsyL: In Love With Vision (Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective Of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Public Identity [Wanda Maximoff] (Occasionally/Major)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

This is a variant of my Mystic Template.  I gave her the Gesture Limitation which she has in the comics, and used the extra points to give her Entangle and Telekinesis.  I'm not sure is she's a mutant, or if that matters because she's a member of The Avengers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/13/2019 at 10:36 PM, massey said:

The variable advantage allows you to make it Area Effect, or Armor Piercing, or whatever you want.  There was a reason I picked +1 1/2, but I don't remember what it was now. 

 

If I had to guess, you wanted Double Knockback as an option?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, segerge said:

 

If I had to guess, you wanted Double Knockback as an option?

 

No no.  It's a +1 1/2 Variable Advantage before doubling.  So a total of +3.  She could slap on an AVLD if she wanted to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, massey said:

 

No no.  It's a +1 1/2 Variable Advantage before doubling.  So a total of +3.  She could slap on an AVLD if she wanted to.

 

I saw the 330 active point total on that  power and my brain must have flatly refused to believe it.  So I guess I plead, "Coping Mechanism?" :D

 

Also, the only time I have ever statted out a 330 active point power was the device Ultrasonique used to take Starforce's armor offline in the TASK FORCE story "A Week at Davos."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

My fear for a "various power tiers" character would be similar to the "situational limitation" character, like one with a lot of powers that only work at night.  The character alternates between a low-powered tag-along and the uber-character who eclipses the rest of the team.

 

 

That's definitely true, but that's also how she worked in the comics for a long time.

 

Quote

Much like Luck, it requires a lot of GM effort and oversight to make it work in the game.

 

If Luck is used as a major component, then the GM and player need to find a common expectation of how effective Luck will be in-game.  The mechanic was never really intended as a major focus power (remembering it was limited to 3d6 for much of the game's history).  If the character is going to make a significant investment (i.e. AP at campaign standard attack level), and/or it will consume significant resources (costs END; requires actions), then the power has to be run in a manner that it carries a value commensurate with that cost.  To me, that means "less effective than the same AP in an attack in combat", as it has non-combat benefits as well, but still pretty effective in both contexts.

 

Turning over some of the control to the player is probably essential - the GM has a lot to do already, without setting the effects of Luck every time the PC's phase comes around.  Having a list of generic possibilities for various levels of Luck success and letting the player suggest what happens after the roll could alleviate some of the pressure, as well as allowing the player a better feeling he controls the character (Luck included) and is more a participant in the game than a bystander.

 

Ultimately a challenging concept to integrate satisfactorily in the game, whatever approach is taken, and a great example of the principal of "let's see how it works for a few sessions, then decide whether something has to be changed".

 

So one thing I've toyed around with is the idea of giving characters a certain degree of narrative control, and wondering what that would do to a game.  Say you have a world-threatening situation where the heroes must stop Dr Disastro from firing up the super-laser before it's too late.  Of course what happens?  They roll like total crap and you can't even pretend that they hit the villain with those 17s and 18s.

 

So then I thought maybe characters could take a power that allows them to effectively bypass or defeat a given scenario.  Superman says "screw it" and slaps around the villain team.  "I've decided to stop holding back..."  Or Element Lad unloads and changes the atmosphere of the planet to defeat the alien invasion.  Or your wizard character pulls out that one spell that they "dare not use" and stop the invasion from the 12th Dimension.  You could limit it to once every however many sessions, and just take into account when somebody's got one available.  You could include challenges that the characters can't normally handle, as long as one of the players still has their World-Breaker mode left.

 

Anyway, the problem is with the portrayal of the character in comics.  A lot of time she's kinda useless, or even harmful to the team.  And other times she's jaw-droppingly powerful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  There was a lot of oddball stuff she could do during the George Perez era of Avengers.  Mainly because he could let his imagination go wild.
   I remember a panel during the Serpent Crown Saga where she and her team were pinned down in an office corridor by a bunch of agents with blasters.  She does the big gesture and all the potted trees in the hall come to life and grab the guards.

   The only way to write something like that up is a slot in a VPP listed as “Weird Crap”  Lim: GM’s control.

    Let him figure out something,  that’s what he’s getting paid no money for!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2019 at 6:11 PM, massey said:

One thing I considered (but haven't actually written up yet) is to give her a Multiform with a fairly large limitations.  If she wants to do something really powerful, she makes an Activation Roll or something to try and tap into her vast potential.  In other words, to change to a character sheet with a lot more points.

 

Depending on what limitations you chose, you could give the player or the GM more control over when she activated God Mode.  Say she's normally a 350 point character, and you build her along those lines.  But then she's got a Multiform into a 700 point character (No Conscious Control -- GM permission only), and a 500 point character if she rolls an 11-, with a limitation that you can only activate it once every three sessions or something.

 

I've got a character who has a way-more powerful version. Her powers jump from 60 or 70 pts, to 100 pts+; gotta love a power with a 1 mile radius. The limitation given to the hero comes from a Hero Games source from so-long-ago-don't-really-remember but the additional pts on the powers are technically available about every 5 sessions at a -2 limitation (that's what I remember from the Hero Games source). Really, in 500+ experience, the character's used it maybe 4 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm thinking about it, why not let the GM build a version of it? You'll have the GM's permission on what was created and it it's not everything that's wanted, the two of you can sit down and discuss it/text/whatever. I did that with a character of mine and have been happy with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Tjack said:

  There was a lot of oddball stuff she could do during the George Perez era of Avengers.  Mainly because he could let his imagination go wild.
   I remember a panel during the Serpent Crown Saga where she and her team were pinned down in an office corridor by a bunch of agents with blasters.  She does the big gesture and all the potted trees in the hall come to life and grab the guards.

   The only way to write something like that up is a slot in a VPP listed as “Weird Crap”  Lim: GM’s control.

    Let him figure out something,  that’s what he’s getting paid no money for!

 

Variable Special Effect Entangle. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about Wanda's powers is that they're normally very versatile, but somewhat limited in intensity and scope. Once in a while she's capable of spiking them into a battle-ending ace in the hole, as with the Ultron example above. Once in a great while, when she's possessed by Chthon or hooked up to something like Surtur's Twilight Sword or the Evil Eye, she can achieve effects beyond even Dr. Strange's capability potentially on a worldwide scale or wider, but has little or no control of what she does.

 

I think I'd build her powers as a VPP with a campaign standard 60-point pool and a much greater control cost, like 125 or even 150 points, so that she'd have to concentrate and take extra time, expend extra effort, perform complicated ritual spells, etc. to make full use of her power. Then I'd add something like +100 pool and +250 control cost, with the limitations that she has to be channeling power directly from a massive source of mystical energy, can't exceed the Active Points in said source's greatest power, and No Conscious Control (putting the actual effects at that high level firmly into GM's plot device territory).

 

For a player character, you could skip that last step and scale down the former ones to be workable in a campaign. Maybe a VPP with a 40- or 50-point pool and a 90 or 100 point control cost, with the Power Skill being set at a level so smaller effects that fit in the pool without Limitations work reliably, but the player has to roll really well to get access to the full control cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/13/2019 at 11:11 PM, pbemguy said:

I'm looking for a write-up of the comic book version of her (hex power etc.). Anyone got any ideas?

 

I tried http://www.sysabend.org/champions/ but her write-up comes up missing, and the Wayback Machine can't find it either. 😮

 

 

 

Looks like the link to the Sam Bell write-up is broken, but the one to Matt Ignash’s seems to work. http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Scarlet_Witch-mi.txt

 

I’ll get the Sam Bell one fixed shortly (I need to fix a lot on that site)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...